Saints Draft

papz · 01-29-2011, 02:38 PM

Very presumptuous of you, actually not an LSU fan; more an SEC fan and I grew up pulling for the underdog Tulane Green Wave...

My condolences.

The example was that his conventional style of play was not good enough to beat LSU at home; it was his runs that made the difference for Auburn that day; that won't cut it in the NFL (Not For Long).

That doesn't make any sense. He completed 66% of his passes this season for almost 3,000 yards with an excellent TD:INT ratio. He's proven he can not only do it with his feet, he more than a capable quarterback.

Here is Newton's scouting report.
Cam Newton NFL Draft scouting report - Mocking The Draft

That says failure all over it doesn't it?

My opinion, and I am confident of this, is that I hope he goes to a team I loathe, like the Redskins or 49'ers, so that they can suck it for another three years...

That's great. You still have not provided anything credible to why his skill set will not translate to the NFL. You seem clearly bias towards him.

FYI phrase(s) that begin with "you come off" are inappropriate, antagonistic and arrogant; not what I consider has been the general good spirit and discussion of the black and gold...

I'm just point out how you sound... I didn't say you were a ignorant jerk off who has no idea what you are talking about while trying to give me a lesson in life. "You come off" isn't "you are"... neither is that phrase inappropriate, antagonistic, or arrogant. I've clearly hit a nerve... but you will get no apology for taking it the way you have. You're a big boy, you'll get over it.

All I see are poor examples and empty excuses to why he's going to fail. I don't care if you don't like him... I don't either. But if you're going to sit behind your computer and have a knowledgeable debate about a player, at least bring something to the table.

jeanpierre · 01-30-2011, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by papz

That doesn't make any sense. He completed 66% of his passes this season for almost 3,000 yards with an excellent TD:INT ratio. He's proven he can not only do it with his feet, he more than a capable quarterback.

Here is Newton's scouting report.
Cam Newton NFL Draft scouting report - Mocking The Draft

That says failure all over it doesn't it?

That's great. You still have not provided anything credible to why his skill set will not translate to the NFL. You seem clearly bias towards him.

In only one season after transferring from Junior College this is what you have...

Dropping the patsy opponents from the schedule he Passed for the following yards againts the following quality opponents, dropping such PowerHouses like Arkansas St, Louisiana Monroe, and Chattanooga...

v. Mississippi St 136 Payds, 2 PaTd-1 Int
v. Clemson - 203 Payds, 2 PaTd - 2 Int
v. Kentucky - 210 Payds, 0 PaTd - 1 Int
v. Arkansas - 140 PaYds, 1 PaTd - 0 Int
v. LSU - 86 PaYds, 0 PaTd - 0 Int
v. Ole Miss 0 209 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 0 Int
v. Georgia 148 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int
v. Alabama 216 PaYds, 3 PaTd - 0 Int
v. S Carolina 335 PaYds, 4 PaTd - 0 Int
v. Oregon 265 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int

Quality Opponents Stats PYds 1948, PaTd 18, 6 Int...

Granted a nice 3:1 PaTD - Int ratio - but only 18 PaTd, mostly with 8-9 defenders in the box...

Against 10 quality opponents he has avg 194.8 PaYds...

That's what I'm looking at statitically; and if you watched the games, the film tape, there's no way I'd draft this bum in the first round...

Compounded with the fact of character - He left Florida to avoid being kicked out for cheating/academic fraud; then there's the Ms State shakedown that he and his father are involved...

Sure like to get a look at his Wonderlic Score, but we want to maintain players privacy and allow them to remove all doubt they're morons until they are interviewed on television...

This is Vince Young Redux, speaking of which...

You mentioned Mocking the Draft - This is what I read from the Scouting Report

Decision making: ...Comes out of Gus Malzahn's spread option where he doesn't have to make multiple reads. Doesn't anticipate a receiver's route that well.

Field vision: Here is where Newton is going to need the work. A lot of Auburn's passes came on receivers running double moves and deep crosses. ...a lot of Newton's passes come on the first read. When it's not there, the offense called for him to pull the ball and run. Since teams stacked the box... Newton didn't see a lot of complex coverages...He did early against Oregon ...got into trouble. He'll have to spend a lot of time in the film room to learn how to pass against defenses with good secondary play and an array of coverages.

Mechanics: Has an awkward throwing motion and will need to adjust his release point. Has a throwing motion very similar to Vince Young's...

And that's quoting Your citation, my friend...

Yeah, you draft this guy in Round 1...

jeanpierre · 01-30-2011, 09:40 AM

Stephen Paea suffered torn meniscus to the right knee during Senior Bowl week; so he's out as a first round option...

papz · 01-30-2011, 10:39 AM

In only one season after transferring from Junior College this is what you have...

In high school high school he finished as the number 2 rated dual threat quarterback in the country. In junior college, he was the number 1 rated JUCO prospect in the country. In the SEC, he finished as the Heisman trophy winner in all of the land. It's not like this success has come out of nowhere... so what if it's only been 1 year in the SEC.

Dropping the patsy opponents from the schedule he Passed for the following yards againts the following quality opponents, dropping such PowerHouses like Arkansas St, Louisiana Monroe, and Chattanooga...

Every college football teams have teams like this on their schedule. Should colege football change the way they record statistics depending on opponents?

v. Mississippi St 136 Payds, 2 PaTd-1 Int
v. Clemson - 203 Payds, 2 PaTd - 2 Int
v. Kentucky - 210 Payds, 0 PaTd - 1 Int
v. Arkansas - 140 PaYds, 1 PaTd - 0 Int
v. LSU - 86 PaYds, 0 PaTd - 0 Int
v. Ole Miss 0 209 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 0 Int
v. Georgia 148 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int
v. Alabama 216 PaYds, 3 PaTd - 0 Int
v. S Carolina 335 PaYds, 4 PaTd - 0 Int
v. Oregon 265 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int

Quality Opponents Stats PYds 1948, PaTd 18, 6 Int...

So about 2,000 yards and a 3:1 TD to INT ratio against the best competition in college football. What's the point here exactly? I'm positive I missed it. You're also ignoring all the rushing statistics and touchdowns he put up against these teams... which just makes it even more impressive.

Compounded with the fact of character - He left Florida to avoid being kicked out for cheating/academic fraud; then there's the Ms State shakedown that he and his father are involved...

This is your first valid point... but, this still has nothing to do with our conversation of how his skills are not going to translate in the NFL.

Sure like to get a look at his Wonderlic Score, but we want to maintain players privacy and allow them to remove all doubt they're morons until they are interviewed on television...

While he may or may not be a moron, I'm sure having a great Wonderlic score is directly correlated to having success in the NFL.

This is Vince Young Redux, speaking of which...

You mentioned Mocking the Draft - This is what I read from the Scouting Report

What you read was that he has a similiar throwing motion to Vince Young. That doesn't make him Vince Young redux. I've also mentioned earlier in this thread that he's been working with Big Ben's quarterback tutor and the reviews have been excellent. He has mechanical issues... a lot of young quarterbacks do. He's already taking the steps to correct them.

You did read the whole report right? You picked his one flaw and you're harboring on it. Forgive me if I continue to believe you are absolutely bias on the matter.

Decision making: ...Comes out of Gus Malzahn's spread option where he doesn't have to make multiple reads. Doesn't anticipate a receiver's route that well.

Shows your bias again by conviently leaving out the first part...
Newton rarely put his receivers in bad position and didn't throw the ball a lot into double coverage. He just needs to get faster making decisions in the passing game.

We'll address that with your next statement as well... as it's virtually the same thing.

Field vision: Here is where Newton is going to need the work. A lot of Auburn's passes came on receivers running double moves and deep crosses. ...a lot of Newton's passes come on the first read. When it's not there, the offense called for him to pull the ball and run. Since teams stacked the box... Newton didn't see a lot of complex coverages...He did early against Oregon ...got into trouble. He'll have to spend a lot of time in the film room to learn how to pass against defenses with good secondary play and an array of coverages.

So essentially you are faulting him for doing what his coaches wanted as far as running the offense is concerned. If his first option wasn't there, he was told to tuck and run. He's an idiot for listening... he only won a national title and the Heisman trophy for doing so. As far as not seeing complex coverages... that's his fault too? He's playing college football against college defenses... how exactly can anyone knock him for that?

He's 21 years old... there aren't many, if any, quarterbacks that come straight into the NFL without many flaws. Look at Jimmy Clausen who scored a good Wonderlic, ran a pro style offense in college, was able to do a hell of a job improvising and making his reads... yet was a complete failure in his first season in the NFL. He didn't have all these so-called mechanical issues either. Just saying.

And that's quoting Your citation, my friend...

Yeah, you draft this guy in Round 1...

If I needed a quarterback...

Newton is a rare talent. With his size, athleticism and arm strength, Newton has more potential than any player in this year's draft. That alone will get him picked in the first round. He also displays great leadership skills that are impossible to teach. In only one year at Auburn, the Tigers rallied around Newton and he led them to a national title.

...I'd definitely consider drafting Newton.

And just to point out, I never once pointed out where he should be drafted. My point is that he has all the physical tools one would want to be a successful NFL quarterback. His size, strength, speed, and athleticism are what people drool for... which obviously to one, the recipe for failure.

jeanpierre · 01-30-2011, 11:15 AM

Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young both had great physical tools; there game just doesn't translate to the NFL Game...

As was pointed out in the scouting report we're discussing, Newton's passing success was to pass to the wide open receiver or pull it down and run...

Look the scouting report you cited says he'll be the most polarizing player coming out because of the physical tools he possesses but he that he has struggled when some of the college defenses schemed complex defenses similiar to a pro-style D...

I didn't cite/quote all the negatives or questions about his game from your report due to length, but there are too many red flags to warrant a draft pick on this guy...

Twenty-one or not, you come ready to play or you're gone...

I will say this though, it was a good scouting report you cited...

papz · 01-30-2011, 12:47 PM

Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young both had great physical tools; there game just doesn't translate to the NFL Game...

Highsight is 20/20. On paper, their skill set suggested they'd have productive NFL careers. No one can tell what's going to happen once they get there. Who knew JaMarcus was going to balloon over 300 pounds, get addicted to sizzurp, lazy, and have a piss poor work ethic. I find that to be more of a mental than physical thing... his physical skill set is everything you'd want in a NFL player. Unless one was a die hard Longhorn fan, I think Young turned out to be exactly what we thought he would be. He's had mild success and no one could have predicted his mental problems either. Both had more problems mentally than physically.

As was pointed out in the scouting report we're discussing, Newton's passing success was to pass to the wide open receiver or pull it down and run...

I have a problem with this. If one is going to knock him throwing to a wide open receiver, why not credit him for eluding defenders allowing his receivers extra time to create separation? We've all watched Newton play... I'm sure we all can see why his receivers are wide open.

I didn't cite/quote all the negatives or questions about his game from your report due to length, but there are too many red flags to warrant a draft pick on this guy...

As there is with almost every prospect every year in every draft. I think "too many" is being exaggerated here.

Twenty-one or not, you come ready to play or you're gone...

Which isn't the case. Some teams have the luxury of developing their players over time. It took 3 years before Roddy White became a productive player. If we were going by your mindset, he'd already be out of this league. Aaron Rodgers had the luxury to develop and learn off the bench before he was thrown into the fire. Robert Meachem wouldn't be on this team right now if we thought like that. The majority of players that come into the league need good coaching and time to develop. It's not as cut and dry like you say.

I will say this though, it was a good scouting report you cited...

It's one of his better ones. That said, I honestly don't see the Vince Young mechanical similarities. I've youtube some videos and I just don't see it.

A little more on how much of a freak Cam Newton is...

YouTube - Cam Newton -better than Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees - Sport Science

If he doesn't succeed in the NFL, I'd venture to say it definitely won't be because of his God given physical talent.

Danno · 01-30-2011, 01:08 PM

I thought this was telling, and supported by the back and forth on the matter...

Final word: Cam Newton will be the most polarizing player in the 2011 NFL Draft. It's easy to see why some will fall madly in love him and why others will go mad if their team drafts him.

TheDeuce · 01-30-2011, 01:26 PM

More polarizing than Mount Cody?!?!?

jeanpierre · 01-30-2011, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by TheDeuce

More polarizing than Mount Cody?!?!?

LOL I know whom you are talking of but did I miss something last season?!?

neugey · 01-31-2011, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Final word: Cam Newton will be the most polarizing player in the 2011 NFL Draft. It's easy to see why some will fall madly in love him and why others will go mad if their team drafts him.

The Tim Tebow of the 2011 draft then.

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01-29-2011, 02:38 PM	#141
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,754	Very presumptuous of you, actually not an LSU fan; more an SEC fan and I grew up pulling for the underdog Tulane Green Wave... My condolences. The example was that his conventional style of play was not good enough to beat LSU at home; it was his runs that made the difference for Auburn that day; that won't cut it in the NFL (Not For Long). That doesn't make any sense. He completed 66% of his passes this season for almost 3,000 yards with an excellent TD:INT ratio. He's proven he can not only do it with his feet, he more than a capable quarterback. Here is Newton's scouting report. Cam Newton NFL Draft scouting report - Mocking The Draft That says failure all over it doesn't it? My opinion, and I am confident of this, is that I hope he goes to a team I loathe, like the Redskins or 49'ers, so that they can suck it for another three years... That's great. You still have not provided anything credible to why his skill set will not translate to the NFL. You seem clearly bias towards him. FYI phrase(s) that begin with "you come off" are inappropriate, antagonistic and arrogant; not what I consider has been the general good spirit and discussion of the black and gold... I'm just point out how you sound... I didn't say you were a ignorant jerk off who has no idea what you are talking about while trying to give me a lesson in life. "You come off" isn't "you are"... neither is that phrase inappropriate, antagonistic, or arrogant. I've clearly hit a nerve... but you will get no apology for taking it the way you have. You're a big boy, you'll get over it. All I see are poor examples and empty excuses to why he's going to fail. I don't care if you don't like him... I don't either. But if you're going to sit behind your computer and have a knowledgeable debate about a player, at least bring something to the table.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

01-30-2011, 07:49 AM	#142
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Originally Posted by papz That doesn't make any sense. He completed 66% of his passes this season for almost 3,000 yards with an excellent TD:INT ratio. He's proven he can not only do it with his feet, he more than a capable quarterback. Here is Newton's scouting report. Cam Newton NFL Draft scouting report - Mocking The Draft That says failure all over it doesn't it? That's great. You still have not provided anything credible to why his skill set will not translate to the NFL. You seem clearly bias towards him. In only one season after transferring from Junior College this is what you have... Dropping the patsy opponents from the schedule he Passed for the following yards againts the following quality opponents, dropping such PowerHouses like Arkansas St, Louisiana Monroe, and Chattanooga... v. Mississippi St 136 Payds, 2 PaTd-1 Int v. Clemson - 203 Payds, 2 PaTd - 2 Int v. Kentucky - 210 Payds, 0 PaTd - 1 Int v. Arkansas - 140 PaYds, 1 PaTd - 0 Int v. LSU - 86 PaYds, 0 PaTd - 0 Int v. Ole Miss 0 209 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 0 Int v. Georgia 148 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int v. Alabama 216 PaYds, 3 PaTd - 0 Int v. S Carolina 335 PaYds, 4 PaTd - 0 Int v. Oregon 265 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int Quality Opponents Stats PYds 1948, PaTd 18, 6 Int... Granted a nice 3:1 PaTD - Int ratio - but only 18 PaTd, mostly with 8-9 defenders in the box... Against 10 quality opponents he has avg 194.8 PaYds... That's what I'm looking at statitically; and if you watched the games, the film tape, there's no way I'd draft this bum in the first round... Compounded with the fact of character - He left Florida to avoid being kicked out for cheating/academic fraud; then there's the Ms State shakedown that he and his father are involved... Sure like to get a look at his Wonderlic Score, but we want to maintain players privacy and allow them to remove all doubt they're morons until they are interviewed on television... This is Vince Young Redux, speaking of which... You mentioned Mocking the Draft - This is what I read from the Scouting Report Decision making: ...Comes out of Gus Malzahn's spread option where he doesn't have to make multiple reads. Doesn't anticipate a receiver's route that well. Field vision: Here is where Newton is going to need the work. A lot of Auburn's passes came on receivers running double moves and deep crosses. ...a lot of Newton's passes come on the first read. When it's not there, the offense called for him to pull the ball and run. Since teams stacked the box... Newton didn't see a lot of complex coverages...He did early against Oregon ...got into trouble. He'll have to spend a lot of time in the film room to learn how to pass against defenses with good secondary play and an array of coverages. Mechanics: Has an awkward throwing motion and will need to adjust his release point. Has a throwing motion very similar to Vince Young's... And that's quoting Your citation, my friend... Yeah, you draft this guy in Round 1...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

01-30-2011, 10:39 AM	#144
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,754	In only one season after transferring from Junior College this is what you have... In high school high school he finished as the number 2 rated dual threat quarterback in the country. In junior college, he was the number 1 rated JUCO prospect in the country. In the SEC, he finished as the Heisman trophy winner in all of the land. It's not like this success has come out of nowhere... so what if it's only been 1 year in the SEC. Dropping the patsy opponents from the schedule he Passed for the following yards againts the following quality opponents, dropping such PowerHouses like Arkansas St, Louisiana Monroe, and Chattanooga... Every college football teams have teams like this on their schedule. Should colege football change the way they record statistics depending on opponents? v. Mississippi St 136 Payds, 2 PaTd-1 Int v. Clemson - 203 Payds, 2 PaTd - 2 Int v. Kentucky - 210 Payds, 0 PaTd - 1 Int v. Arkansas - 140 PaYds, 1 PaTd - 0 Int v. LSU - 86 PaYds, 0 PaTd - 0 Int v. Ole Miss 0 209 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 0 Int v. Georgia 148 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int v. Alabama 216 PaYds, 3 PaTd - 0 Int v. S Carolina 335 PaYds, 4 PaTd - 0 Int v. Oregon 265 PaYds, 2 PaTd - 1 Int Quality Opponents Stats PYds 1948, PaTd 18, 6 Int... So about 2,000 yards and a 3:1 TD to INT ratio against the best competition in college football. What's the point here exactly? I'm positive I missed it. You're also ignoring all the rushing statistics and touchdowns he put up against these teams... which just makes it even more impressive. Compounded with the fact of character - He left Florida to avoid being kicked out for cheating/academic fraud; then there's the Ms State shakedown that he and his father are involved... This is your first valid point... but, this still has nothing to do with our conversation of how his skills are not going to translate in the NFL. Sure like to get a look at his Wonderlic Score, but we want to maintain players privacy and allow them to remove all doubt they're morons until they are interviewed on television... While he may or may not be a moron, I'm sure having a great Wonderlic score is directly correlated to having success in the NFL. This is Vince Young Redux, speaking of which... You mentioned Mocking the Draft - This is what I read from the Scouting Report What you read was that he has a similiar throwing motion to Vince Young. That doesn't make him Vince Young redux. I've also mentioned earlier in this thread that he's been working with Big Ben's quarterback tutor and the reviews have been excellent. He has mechanical issues... a lot of young quarterbacks do. He's already taking the steps to correct them. You did read the whole report right? You picked his one flaw and you're harboring on it. Forgive me if I continue to believe you are absolutely bias on the matter. Decision making: ...Comes out of Gus Malzahn's spread option where he doesn't have to make multiple reads. Doesn't anticipate a receiver's route that well. Shows your bias again by conviently leaving out the first part... Newton rarely put his receivers in bad position and didn't throw the ball a lot into double coverage. He just needs to get faster making decisions in the passing game. We'll address that with your next statement as well... as it's virtually the same thing. Field vision: Here is where Newton is going to need the work. A lot of Auburn's passes came on receivers running double moves and deep crosses. ...a lot of Newton's passes come on the first read. When it's not there, the offense called for him to pull the ball and run. Since teams stacked the box... Newton didn't see a lot of complex coverages...He did early against Oregon ...got into trouble. He'll have to spend a lot of time in the film room to learn how to pass against defenses with good secondary play and an array of coverages. So essentially you are faulting him for doing what his coaches wanted as far as running the offense is concerned. If his first option wasn't there, he was told to tuck and run. He's an idiot for listening... he only won a national title and the Heisman trophy for doing so. As far as not seeing complex coverages... that's his fault too? He's playing college football against college defenses... how exactly can anyone knock him for that? He's 21 years old... there aren't many, if any, quarterbacks that come straight into the NFL without many flaws. Look at Jimmy Clausen who scored a good Wonderlic, ran a pro style offense in college, was able to do a hell of a job improvising and making his reads... yet was a complete failure in his first season in the NFL. He didn't have all these so-called mechanical issues either. Just saying. And that's quoting Your citation, my friend... Yeah, you draft this guy in Round 1... If I needed a quarterback... Newton is a rare talent. With his size, athleticism and arm strength, Newton has more potential than any player in this year's draft. That alone will get him picked in the first round. He also displays great leadership skills that are impossible to teach. In only one year at Auburn, the Tigers rallied around Newton and he led them to a national title. ...I'd definitely consider drafting Newton. And just to point out, I never once pointed out where he should be drafted. My point is that he has all the physical tools one would want to be a successful NFL quarterback. His size, strength, speed, and athleticism are what people drool for... which obviously to one, the recipe for failure.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

01-30-2011, 11:15 AM	#145
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young both had great physical tools; there game just doesn't translate to the NFL Game... As was pointed out in the scouting report we're discussing, Newton's passing success was to pass to the wide open receiver or pull it down and run... Look the scouting report you cited says he'll be the most polarizing player coming out because of the physical tools he possesses but he that he has struggled when some of the college defenses schemed complex defenses similiar to a pro-style D... I didn't cite/quote all the negatives or questions about his game from your report due to length, but there are too many red flags to warrant a draft pick on this guy... Twenty-one or not, you come ready to play or you're gone... I will say this though, it was a good scouting report you cited...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

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01-30-2011, 09:40 AM	#143
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Stephen Paea suffered torn meniscus to the right knee during Senior Bowl week; so he's out as a first round option...

01-30-2011, 01:08 PM	#147
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	I thought this was telling, and supported by the back and forth on the matter... Final word: Cam Newton will be the most polarizing player in the 2011 NFL Draft. It's easy to see why some will fall madly in love him and why others will go mad if their team drafts him.

01-30-2011, 01:26 PM	#148
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	More polarizing than Mount Cody?!?!?
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-30-2011, 10:19 PM	#149
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Originally Posted by TheDeuce More polarizing than Mount Cody?!?!? LOL I know whom you are talking of but did I miss something last season?!?

01-31-2011, 03:44 PM	#150
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,717 Blog Entries: 13	Originally Posted by Danno Final word: Cam Newton will be the most polarizing player in the 2011 NFL Draft. It's easy to see why some will fall madly in love him and why others will go mad if their team drafts him. The Tim Tebow of the 2011 draft then.