Offense must take a hit for defense to improve

CharityMike · 01-16-2012, 12:04 PM

And I will add that in every year but but ONE he has went over 1000 yards receiving.

mike27 · 01-16-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

Our offense is totally loaded with tons of talent at skill positions, and our o-line was able to reload mid-season after our starting center quit.

With Drew Brees, Marques Colston and others becoming free agents or requiring new contracts, the offense will have to restructure to allow the defense to have cap money to upgrade.

And Drew Brees won't be cheap... same for Colston. Brees is a definite with probably the biggest contract in NFL history (as big as Payton Manning at least).

Without going deep into detail, what does Mickey Loomis do? Who do we choose to release so we can beef up our defense?

Think about it, if we get a new d-coordinator we'll need to reload linebacker, corner-back, defensive line to change this defense.

I said the other day, defending Williams, that a lot of our cap was spent on offense, and perhaps Williams was taking some lemons and making some pretty tasty team lemonade with the defense. Williams' haters, expressed the belief I'm crazy.

I don't know if I would mess with a good thing, once again. I like the receiver core, and I think having that height and toughness is great, and I don't think "every" receiver (next post) could catch the passes Colston can catch.

I like the strategy of a team defense, and a high powered offense. Think about how much more entertaining the SF game was (save the loss of course) or all the games this season, compared to the snooze fest of the Baltimore/Houston game yesterday, for instance.

I still think several here gave Williams a raw deal. Oh yea, I like the depth at running back too. It's served us well this year. Look how tough it was when we lost Thomas, and it would've been worse if only Sproles was left.

Maybe bring on some youth, some guys to replace some of the older members that are injured a lot, that are conscientious workers, and have a great work-ethic, but can be had for the cheap. I think they both have a great eye for talent.

Rugby Saint II · 01-16-2012, 12:33 PM

Brees stays. Nicks stays. Colston stays. Everyone else is debatable.

darstep · 01-16-2012, 12:52 PM

Our defensive front has given us near nothing this season.
And once again in a BIG game we are looking at ONEzies across the front.
They ran for over 100 yards and we get 1 tackle OR 1 assist. That's awful.
The rookie Jordan had a good day and nobody else showed up.
Will Smith disappeared. Ellis, Frankllin, Rogers...could hardly tell they we out there.
Linebackers and DB's have been working overtime all year.
No wonder there has been lapses in coverage. They are tired.
On the defense, everybody is expendable except the rookie. He gets more time.
On the offense, lock down Brees.
Receivers: keep Colston, Moore, Graham. Everyone else expendable.
Backs: keep PT, Ingram and Sproles.
OLine: all safe.
Morstead has to stay. He has been top notch in our field position battles.
Upgrade the defense and we are back on top again going for the gold.

UK_WhoDat · 01-16-2012, 01:32 PM

It is all very well thinking we can keep all or all -1 of the very top top Saints free agents. But we cannot. So we can argue forever about the keeping them all, but I doubt that will happen.

We will not keep Brees, Nicks, and Colston because they are not just top, but top top. And they are rightly looking to be paid. And age is also a factor for Brees and Colston. I don't mean negatively about their potential output but their perceived opportunity to pulling in more money than the Fed can dream about.

And no matter, there is never ever any guarantee that the ring is yours next year because the team seems to have it all.

One out of them wil be gone.

So now we can argue about the next teir of Saints free agents.

CharityMike · 01-16-2012, 01:46 PM

Lets look at DL and LB:

Junior GP:16 Tackles:19 Sacks:4.5

Cameron: GP:16 Tackles:31 FR:1 Sack:1 PD:5

Smith: GP:14 Tackles:35 FF:2 Sacks:6.5 PD:2

Ellis: GP:15 Tackles:29 Sacks:.5 PD:4

Franklin: GP:16 Tackles:17 and that's al

Rogers: GP:16 Tackles:22 PD:1

Tom Johnson: GP:13 Tackles:15 Sacks:1 FF:1

LB

Shanle: GP:16 Tackles: 69 Sacks:1 FF:1 INT:1(grandma could have caught it)

Vilma: GP:11 Tackles:54 Sacks:0 FF:1 FR:3 PD:3

Dunbar: GP:16 Tackles:79 Sacks:1 FF:2 PD:6

Casillas: GP:13 Tackles:30 Sacks:3 PD:2

Will Herring: GP:11 Tackles:9 INT:1 PD:1

Wilson: GP:13 Tackles:10 Sacks:1

Humber: GP:13 Tackles:21 Sacks:1 PD:1

So there it is. Pick at it how you choose. I see that our 3 constants, Shanle, Vilma, Dunbar, have managed a total of 202 tackles combined. There are guys in this league that have 1/2 to 3/4 of that by themselves.

UK_WhoDat · 01-16-2012, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by CharityMike

.......So there it is. Pick at it how you choose. I see that our 3 constants, Shanle, Vilma, Dunbar, have managed a total of 202 tackles combined. There are guys in this league that have 1/2 to 3/4 of that by themselves.

I hear ya' But if we can't exactly tackle when in a GW Blitz scheme

naildriver118 · 01-16-2012, 04:47 PM

Losing Colston would undoubtedly put the offense in a bind. He is a big time weapon and I believe that our staff understands that.

It may be time to let Meachem try to refresh his career elsewhere.

But I want to remind everyone of the preseason phenom that was::: Joe Morgan. I'm going out on a limb and saying he could be this year's poor man's version of Victor Cruz

Danno · 01-16-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by naildriver118

Losing Colston would undoubtedly put the offense in a bind. He is a big time weapon and I believe that our staff understands that.

It may be time to let Meachem try to refresh his career elsewhere.

The issue is really can we afford Colston. Colston is gonna get paid 3 times what Meachem would get paid. Letting Meachem walk doesn't solve the issue at all. In fact, keeping Meachem is probably a wise idea since he's not very expensive and already knows the system and who knows, with Colston gone he may step up his game immensely.

LivnaLieTimay · 01-16-2012, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by mike27

I said the other day, defending Williams, that a lot of our cap was spent on offense, and perhaps Williams was taking some lemons and making some pretty tasty team lemonade with the defense. Williams' haters, expressed the belief I'm crazy.

On the first page of this thread I posted the top 5 salaries on our team from 2011. 4 of the top 5 were defensive players. That list doesn't even include other well paid players like Harper, Jenkins, Franklin, Rodgers, Robinson and Jordan. I didn't have time to add it all up but by quickly estimating, this team actually had more money invested on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive side. Here is the cap hits from this year for everyone to look at:

New Orleans Saints - 2011 Cap Hits

You can look at full contracts on the site as well but based strictly on last year alone, going by the "cap hit," we spent more money on defense than offense. This may be shocking news to many if you watch this team. It seems almost impossible that we would have so much of our cap invested on defense but we do. So for me, if we invest a lot in the defense and it doesn't work then changes need to be made and I think changing the D Coordinator is a smart move.

01-16-2012, 12:28 PM	#42
mike27 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 104 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by Halo Our offense is totally loaded with tons of talent at skill positions, and our o-line was able to reload mid-season after our starting center quit. With Drew Brees, Marques Colston and others becoming free agents or requiring new contracts, the offense will have to restructure to allow the defense to have cap money to upgrade. And Drew Brees won't be cheap... same for Colston. Brees is a definite with probably the biggest contract in NFL history (as big as Payton Manning at least). Without going deep into detail, what does Mickey Loomis do? Who do we choose to release so we can beef up our defense? Think about it, if we get a new d-coordinator we'll need to reload linebacker, corner-back, defensive line to change this defense. I said the other day, defending Williams, that a lot of our cap was spent on offense, and perhaps Williams was taking some lemons and making some pretty tasty team lemonade with the defense. Williams' haters, expressed the belief I'm crazy. I don't know if I would mess with a good thing, once again. I like the receiver core, and I think having that height and toughness is great, and I don't think "every" receiver (next post) could catch the passes Colston can catch. I like the strategy of a team defense, and a high powered offense. Think about how much more entertaining the SF game was (save the loss of course) or all the games this season, compared to the snooze fest of the Baltimore/Houston game yesterday, for instance. I still think several here gave Williams a raw deal. Oh yea, I like the depth at running back too. It's served us well this year. Look how tough it was when we lost Thomas, and it would've been worse if only Sproles was left. Maybe bring on some youth, some guys to replace some of the older members that are injured a lot, that are conscientious workers, and have a great work-ethic, but can be had for the cheap. I think they both have a great eye for talent.

01-16-2012, 12:52 PM	#44
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Our defensive front has given us near nothing this season. And once again in a BIG game we are looking at ONEzies across the front. They ran for over 100 yards and we get 1 tackle OR 1 assist. That's awful. The rookie Jordan had a good day and nobody else showed up. Will Smith disappeared. Ellis, Frankllin, Rogers...could hardly tell they we out there. Linebackers and DB's have been working overtime all year. No wonder there has been lapses in coverage. They are tired. On the defense, everybody is expendable except the rookie. He gets more time. On the offense, lock down Brees. Receivers: keep Colston, Moore, Graham. Everyone else expendable. Backs: keep PT, Ingram and Sproles. OLine: all safe. Morstead has to stay. He has been top notch in our field position battles. Upgrade the defense and we are back on top again going for the gold.
	SaintSince67

01-16-2012, 01:32 PM	#45
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 3,947	It is all very well thinking we can keep all or all -1 of the very top top Saints free agents. But we cannot. So we can argue forever about the keeping them all, but I doubt that will happen. We will not keep Brees, Nicks, and Colston because they are not just top, but top top. And they are rightly looking to be paid. And age is also a factor for Brees and Colston. I don't mean negatively about their potential output but their perceived opportunity to pulling in more money than the Fed can dream about. And no matter, there is never ever any guarantee that the ring is yours next year because the team seems to have it all. One out of them wil be gone. So now we can argue about the next teir of Saints free agents.
	Our Saints, Our City, Our Soul Saints are individuals of exceptional holiness

01-16-2012, 01:54 PM	#47
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 3,947	Originally Posted by CharityMike .......So there it is. Pick at it how you choose. I see that our 3 constants, Shanle, Vilma, Dunbar, have managed a total of 202 tackles combined. There are guys in this league that have 1/2 to 3/4 of that by themselves. I hear ya' But if we can't exactly tackle when in a GW Blitz scheme

01-16-2012, 04:47 PM	#48
naildriver118 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14	Losing Colston would undoubtedly put the offense in a bind. He is a big time weapon and I believe that our staff understands that. It may be time to let Meachem try to refresh his career elsewhere. But I want to remind everyone of the preseason phenom that was::: Joe Morgan. I'm going out on a limb and saying he could be this year's poor man's version of Victor Cruz
naildriver118 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14

01-16-2012, 12:04 PM	#41
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	And I will add that in every year but but ONE he has went over 1000 yards receiving.

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01-16-2012, 12:33 PM	#43
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Brees stays. Nicks stays. Colston stays. Everyone else is debatable.

01-16-2012, 01:46 PM	#46
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Lets look at DL and LB: Junior GP:16 Tackles:19 Sacks:4.5 Cameron: GP:16 Tackles:31 FR:1 Sack:1 PD:5 Smith: GP:14 Tackles:35 FF:2 Sacks:6.5 PD:2 Ellis: GP:15 Tackles:29 Sacks:.5 PD:4 Franklin: GP:16 Tackles:17 and that's al Rogers: GP:16 Tackles:22 PD:1 Tom Johnson: GP:13 Tackles:15 Sacks:1 FF:1 LB Shanle: GP:16 Tackles: 69 Sacks:1 FF:1 INT:1(grandma could have caught it) Vilma: GP:11 Tackles:54 Sacks:0 FF:1 FR:3 PD:3 Dunbar: GP:16 Tackles:79 Sacks:1 FF:2 PD:6 Casillas: GP:13 Tackles:30 Sacks:3 PD:2 Will Herring: GP:11 Tackles:9 INT:1 PD:1 Wilson: GP:13 Tackles:10 Sacks:1 Humber: GP:13 Tackles:21 Sacks:1 PD:1 So there it is. Pick at it how you choose. I see that our 3 constants, Shanle, Vilma, Dunbar, have managed a total of 202 tackles combined. There are guys in this league that have 1/2 to 3/4 of that by themselves.

01-16-2012, 05:17 PM	#49
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Originally Posted by naildriver118 Losing Colston would undoubtedly put the offense in a bind. He is a big time weapon and I believe that our staff understands that. It may be time to let Meachem try to refresh his career elsewhere. The issue is really can we afford Colston. Colston is gonna get paid 3 times what Meachem would get paid. Letting Meachem walk doesn't solve the issue at all. In fact, keeping Meachem is probably a wise idea since he's not very expensive and already knows the system and who knows, with Colston gone he may step up his game immensely.

01-16-2012, 06:32 PM	#50
LivnaLieTimay 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 1,498	Originally Posted by mike27 I said the other day, defending Williams, that a lot of our cap was spent on offense, and perhaps Williams was taking some lemons and making some pretty tasty team lemonade with the defense. Williams' haters, expressed the belief I'm crazy. On the first page of this thread I posted the top 5 salaries on our team from 2011. 4 of the top 5 were defensive players. That list doesn't even include other well paid players like Harper, Jenkins, Franklin, Rodgers, Robinson and Jordan. I didn't have time to add it all up but by quickly estimating, this team actually had more money invested on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive side. Here is the cap hits from this year for everyone to look at: New Orleans Saints - 2011 Cap Hits You can look at full contracts on the site as well but based strictly on last year alone, going by the "cap hit," we spent more money on defense than offense. This may be shocking news to many if you watch this team. It seems almost impossible that we would have so much of our cap invested on defense but we do. So for me, if we invest a lot in the defense and it doesn't work then changes need to be made and I think changing the D Coordinator is a smart move. CharityMike likes this.

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