Nitpicking 101

iceshack149 · 04-10-2004, 08:51 PM

I found this article entertaining:

Imperfect 10: Scouts find flaws in top picks
By Dennis Dillon

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2294958

Visual acuity is what allows the jeweler to spot a flaw in a diamond, the tailor to see a pinhole in a new suit and the NFL scout to uncover the slightest imperfection in any football player ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â€Â even if that player is expected to be a top pick in the draft.

Most stories about pending draft selections stress the players' strengths. Tucker the tackle can block out the sun and Mercury. Quinn the quarterback can make all the throws. Wilson the wide receiver has world-class speed.

This story looks at 10 top players from a different perspective: It examines their potential impediments.

The Sporting News talked to six NFL college scouting directors (three from each conference) about quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, cornerback DeAngelo Hall, defensive end Kenechi Udeze, tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. and six others ranked among the top 20 on TSN's list of Super 99 prospects. Each plays a different position. We asked the same question about each prospect: What is the one thing that could prevent him from becoming a premier player in the NFL?....

It's interesting that one scout said of Jonathan Vilma:

"I know if we play against him, we'll run right at him."

JKool · 04-10-2004, 10:22 PM

Good article Ice.

DatFu · 04-10-2004, 11:52 PM

vilmas a midget for the position he cant take the pounding for a 16 game season and he aint gonna match up good against bigger backs like jamal lewis or stephen davis. he\'ll get run over or bounce off guys. if we do take him maybe he can slow backs down enough to get help to make the stop. he wont ever be a great mlb, might be good, but not great

rAge · 04-11-2004, 12:44 AM

vilmas a midget for the position he cant take the pounding for a 16 game season and he aint gonna match up good against bigger backs like jamal lewis or stephen davis. he\'ll get run over or bounce off guys. if we do take him maybe he can slow backs down enough to get help to make the stop. he wont ever be a great mlb, might be good, but not great

That\'s what they all said about Ray Lewis when he came out of Miami.

When will people start to learn that size is not the end all. If a guy goes out there and plays big, who gives a damn how big he actually is. Time after time the smaller guys end up being the better than some big guy that was drafted before them.

More often than not, a smaller athlete has to learn how to play the position more than the bigger guy because that\'s the only way he\'s going to play. The bigger guys can get by on size...then they get to the NFL and if they didn\'t have the talent, they are exposed quick. The Steve Smith\'s of the world will continue to be big time players while the David Terrell\'s will just be big athletes that do nothing.

rusta · 04-11-2004, 11:42 AM

i\'m with rage on this one, it comes down to mechanics and heart, you could be 6\'3\" 240lbs and if you try to tackle a guy up high you\'re gonna get shook, if you feel like a little guy and are tenative then yeah you\'re gonna get killed, there\'s a differance between a physically gifted athlete and a football player

grady jackson and hand both had the size to be run stuffers but had no heart

a guy can run 4.2 40\'s but if he can\'t run routes then he can\'t get open

spud webb was 5\'7\" and played in the nba for years

i\'m 5\'6\" 175lbs and play CB in a tackle league and i can lay the lumber on rb\'s sweeping out wide regardless off my size because i\'m not scared and i know how to tackle

vilma has just a good a chance of being great as williams who is supposedly a physical specimen, hell i would put money on vilma over williams because the knock on williams is that he is not as smart a player as vilma is

Boogro · 04-11-2004, 11:59 AM

The bigger guys can get by on size...then they get to the NFL and if they didn\'t have the talent, they are exposed quick. The Steve Smith\'s of the world will continue to be big time players while the David Terrell\'s will just be big athletes that do nothing.

That\'s a good example, but you are talking about recievers. It was a long time ago when Lewis was drafted so I can honestly say that I don\'t know what everyone has been saying about the guy before he was drafted. But you are comparing wr\'s here, guys that don\'t have to tackle or take on huge lineman. Yeah, you made a good example of Ray Lewis. Everyone knows that he is the best linebacker. There are not very Ray Lewis\' out there, in fact there is only one. That\'s Ray Lewis himself. Now I am not against drafting Vilma if Robinson and Hall are gone, but I do have my own question marks about the guy. All I am saying is that if draft Vilma, I hope he turns out to be the right choice and all that of what you saying you THINK he will turn out to be.

rAge · 04-11-2004, 02:23 PM

That\'s a good example, but you are talking about recievers. It was a long time ago when Lewis was drafted so I can honestly say that I don\'t know what everyone has been saying about the guy before he was drafted. But you are comparing wr\'s here, guys that don\'t have to tackle or take on huge lineman. Yeah, you made a good example of Ray Lewis. Everyone knows that he is the best linebacker. There are not very Ray Lewis\' out there, in fact there is only one. That\'s Ray Lewis himself. Now I am not against drafting Vilma if Robinson and Hall are gone, but I do have my own question marks about the guy. All I am saying is that if draft Vilma, I hope he turns out to be the right choice and all that of what you saying you THINK he will turn out to be.

Ok, fine. Kevin Hardy was the #2 overall pick in the 1996 draft (same one as Ray Lewis, but he isn\'t my example this time). Hardy is 6-4. But in the 5th round a very small LB by the name of Zach Thomas was selected. Who turned out better? Hardy may of had one probowl year, and he may be a pretty solid LB, but Thomas is a top 5 MLB and has been for a long time.

Boogro · 04-11-2004, 02:56 PM

Ok, fine. Kevin Hardy was the #2 overall pick in the 1996 draft (same one as Ray Lewis, but he isn\'t my example this time). Hardy is 6-4. But in the 5th round a very small LB by the name of Zach Thomas was selected. Who turned out better? Hardy may of had one probowl year, and he may be a pretty solid LB, but Thomas is a top 5 MLB and has been for a long time.

Ok, thomas is a good example for this argument and also for another argumeant. The other argument being we can draft a good linebacker in later rounds. What I am trying to say is that not all small linebackers turn out to be Pro Bowl caliber linebackers. Every undersized linebacker drafted is a risk. Some turn out to be busts while some turn out to be stars. I hope if we draft Vilma he turns out to be better than Lewis or Thomas. But you can find guys after round 1 that can be superstars like Thomas also. As far as my view is concerned, I would really like to pick up Hall or Robinson with my first pick. If both are gone, then my choices would be Vilma or D. Williams. I feel we need a LB and CB with 2 of our first 3 picks. I just prefer Hall and Robinson over Vilma and that\'s it. I know everyone has their own opinions and I have mine. All I have to say is that looking back I hope the Saints do the right thing whether its taking Hall, Robinson, Vilma or anyone else for that matter. I just want this organization to win and I am sticking with them till the end.

turbo_dog · 04-11-2004, 03:33 PM

Boogro, if Hall and Robinson are there then I wouldn\'t be against drafting them. I don\'t think they\'ll be there. I prefer Vilma over Gamble.

I think if we get a Hall/Darryl Smith/bap combo or a Vilma/Ahmad Carrol/bap combo we will have a succesful first two rounds. I just hope there isn\'t a \"Stench-comb\" pick.

Boogro · 04-11-2004, 04:23 PM

Boogro, if Hall and Robinson are there then I wouldn\'t be against drafting them. I don\'t think they\'ll be there. I prefer Vilma over Gamble.

I think if we get a Hall/Darryl Smith/bap combo or a Vilma/Ahmad Carrol/bap combo we will have a succesful first two rounds. I just hope there isn\'t a \"Stench-comb\" pick.

Yeah, I agree. I wouldn\'t draft Gamble with our first pick. Carroll would be a good pick, but I am not sure if he falls that far.

04-10-2004, 08:51 PM	#1
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,299 Blog Entries: 1	Nitpicking 101 I found this article entertaining: Imperfect 10: Scouts find flaws in top picks By Dennis Dillon http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2294958 Visual acuity is what allows the jeweler to spot a flaw in a diamond, the tailor to see a pinhole in a new suit and the NFL scout to uncover the slightest imperfection in any football player ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â€Â even if that player is expected to be a top pick in the draft. Most stories about pending draft selections stress the players' strengths. Tucker the tackle can block out the sun and Mercury. Quinn the quarterback can make all the throws. Wilson the wide receiver has world-class speed. This story looks at 10 top players from a different perspective: It examines their potential impediments. The Sporting News talked to six NFL college scouting directors (three from each conference) about quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, cornerback DeAngelo Hall, defensive end Kenechi Udeze, tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. and six others ranked among the top 20 on TSN's list of Super 99 prospects. Each plays a different position. We asked the same question about each prospect: What is the one thing that could prevent him from becoming a premier player in the NFL?.... It's interesting that one scout said of Jonathan Vilma: "I know if we play against him, we'll run right at him."

04-10-2004, 11:52 PM	#3
DatFu Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 57	Nitpicking 101 vilmas a midget for the position he cant take the pounding for a 16 game season and he aint gonna match up good against bigger backs like jamal lewis or stephen davis. he\'ll get run over or bounce off guys. if we do take him maybe he can slow backs down enough to get help to make the stop. he wont ever be a great mlb, might be good, but not great
DatFu Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 57

04-11-2004, 12:44 AM	#4
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	Nitpicking 101 vilmas a midget for the position he cant take the pounding for a 16 game season and he aint gonna match up good against bigger backs like jamal lewis or stephen davis. he\'ll get run over or bounce off guys. if we do take him maybe he can slow backs down enough to get help to make the stop. he wont ever be a great mlb, might be good, but not great That\'s what they all said about Ray Lewis when he came out of Miami. When will people start to learn that size is not the end all. If a guy goes out there and plays big, who gives a damn how big he actually is. Time after time the smaller guys end up being the better than some big guy that was drafted before them. More often than not, a smaller athlete has to learn how to play the position more than the bigger guy because that\'s the only way he\'s going to play. The bigger guys can get by on size...then they get to the NFL and if they didn\'t have the talent, they are exposed quick. The Steve Smith\'s of the world will continue to be big time players while the David Terrell\'s will just be big athletes that do nothing.
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	http://www.cutandpastescripts.com/cg...=forgottenrage

04-11-2004, 11:42 AM	#5
rusta 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 361	Nitpicking 101 i\'m with rage on this one, it comes down to mechanics and heart, you could be 6\'3\" 240lbs and if you try to tackle a guy up high you\'re gonna get shook, if you feel like a little guy and are tenative then yeah you\'re gonna get killed, there\'s a differance between a physically gifted athlete and a football player grady jackson and hand both had the size to be run stuffers but had no heart a guy can run 4.2 40\'s but if he can\'t run routes then he can\'t get open spud webb was 5\'7\" and played in the nba for years i\'m 5\'6\" 175lbs and play CB in a tackle league and i can lay the lumber on rb\'s sweeping out wide regardless off my size because i\'m not scared and i know how to tackle vilma has just a good a chance of being great as williams who is supposedly a physical specimen, hell i would put money on vilma over williams because the knock on williams is that he is not as smart a player as vilma is
rusta 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 361

04-11-2004, 11:59 AM	#6
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Nitpicking 101 The bigger guys can get by on size...then they get to the NFL and if they didn\'t have the talent, they are exposed quick. The Steve Smith\'s of the world will continue to be big time players while the David Terrell\'s will just be big athletes that do nothing. That\'s a good example, but you are talking about recievers. It was a long time ago when Lewis was drafted so I can honestly say that I don\'t know what everyone has been saying about the guy before he was drafted. But you are comparing wr\'s here, guys that don\'t have to tackle or take on huge lineman. Yeah, you made a good example of Ray Lewis. Everyone knows that he is the best linebacker. There are not very Ray Lewis\' out there, in fact there is only one. That\'s Ray Lewis himself. Now I am not against drafting Vilma if Robinson and Hall are gone, but I do have my own question marks about the guy. All I am saying is that if draft Vilma, I hope he turns out to be the right choice and all that of what you saying you THINK he will turn out to be.

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04-10-2004, 10:22 PM	#2
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Nitpicking 101 Good article Ice.

04-11-2004, 02:23 PM	#7
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	Nitpicking 101 That\'s a good example, but you are talking about recievers. It was a long time ago when Lewis was drafted so I can honestly say that I don\'t know what everyone has been saying about the guy before he was drafted. But you are comparing wr\'s here, guys that don\'t have to tackle or take on huge lineman. Yeah, you made a good example of Ray Lewis. Everyone knows that he is the best linebacker. There are not very Ray Lewis\' out there, in fact there is only one. That\'s Ray Lewis himself. Now I am not against drafting Vilma if Robinson and Hall are gone, but I do have my own question marks about the guy. All I am saying is that if draft Vilma, I hope he turns out to be the right choice and all that of what you saying you THINK he will turn out to be. Ok, fine. Kevin Hardy was the #2 overall pick in the 1996 draft (same one as Ray Lewis, but he isn\'t my example this time). Hardy is 6-4. But in the 5th round a very small LB by the name of Zach Thomas was selected. Who turned out better? Hardy may of had one probowl year, and he may be a pretty solid LB, but Thomas is a top 5 MLB and has been for a long time.
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320

04-11-2004, 02:56 PM	#8
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Nitpicking 101 Ok, fine. Kevin Hardy was the #2 overall pick in the 1996 draft (same one as Ray Lewis, but he isn\'t my example this time). Hardy is 6-4. But in the 5th round a very small LB by the name of Zach Thomas was selected. Who turned out better? Hardy may of had one probowl year, and he may be a pretty solid LB, but Thomas is a top 5 MLB and has been for a long time. Ok, thomas is a good example for this argument and also for another argumeant. The other argument being we can draft a good linebacker in later rounds. What I am trying to say is that not all small linebackers turn out to be Pro Bowl caliber linebackers. Every undersized linebacker drafted is a risk. Some turn out to be busts while some turn out to be stars. I hope if we draft Vilma he turns out to be better than Lewis or Thomas. But you can find guys after round 1 that can be superstars like Thomas also. As far as my view is concerned, I would really like to pick up Hall or Robinson with my first pick. If both are gone, then my choices would be Vilma or D. Williams. I feel we need a LB and CB with 2 of our first 3 picks. I just prefer Hall and Robinson over Vilma and that\'s it. I know everyone has their own opinions and I have mine. All I have to say is that looking back I hope the Saints do the right thing whether its taking Hall, Robinson, Vilma or anyone else for that matter. I just want this organization to win and I am sticking with them till the end.

04-11-2004, 03:33 PM	#9
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,592	Nitpicking 101 Boogro, if Hall and Robinson are there then I wouldn\'t be against drafting them. I don\'t think they\'ll be there. I prefer Vilma over Gamble. I think if we get a Hall/Darryl Smith/bap combo or a Vilma/Ahmad Carrol/bap combo we will have a succesful first two rounds. I just hope there isn\'t a \"Stench-comb\" pick.

04-11-2004, 04:23 PM	#10
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Nitpicking 101 Boogro, if Hall and Robinson are there then I wouldn\'t be against drafting them. I don\'t think they\'ll be there. I prefer Vilma over Gamble. I think if we get a Hall/Darryl Smith/bap combo or a Vilma/Ahmad Carrol/bap combo we will have a succesful first two rounds. I just hope there isn\'t a \"Stench-comb\" pick. Yeah, I agree. I wouldn\'t draft Gamble with our first pick. Carroll would be a good pick, but I am not sure if he falls that far.