We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1

rAge · 04-12-2004, 11:26 PM

You forgot to mention Newman and Trufant. Why? Because the had good years. Newman was the 4th rated corner before he worked out. After he worked out and ran, he became the top corner in the draft. Kinda souns like Hall to me. So, yeah I believe Hall and Robinson can be just as good as Newman and Trufant so I am not againt drafting either of them. Who\'s to say we can\'t draft a starting linebacker in the second round? I guess since your the expert on 2004 NFL draft linebackers you know better.

I didn\'t mention them because they were looked upon as lockdown corners long before the draft and they had solid rookie years. I was just pointing out that the top 3 CB\'s in this years draft are only as talented as the 3rd, 4th and 5th corners from last year and that we can probably find a better corner in round 2...a corner that is only in round 2 because he went to a small school (like tillman & mathis last year).
And I don\'t know where you were going, but Newman was rated as a top 2-3 corner his entire final season of college and Trufant was right there with him. The top three corners in this years draft aren\'t half as talented as those two guys.

And I know we can get a starting LB in the 2nd round. Hell, you can probably get a very good LB in the 2nd round this year (like, rod davis). But do you want a very good LB, or an elite LB? I\'ll take elite any day. Ray Lewis or Mike Peterson, that is basically what it amounts to. I would be happy with either, but I would much rather have Ray.

If we take Dunta Robinson, I will hope for the best. But it\'s going to take time for him to develop and just do not believe that we have time to develop a corner now.

DatFu · 04-12-2004, 11:39 PM

who do you think we should trade for ray lewis? i can\'t see the ravens being willing to a deal at any price, hes their whole franchise.

rAge · 04-13-2004, 12:40 AM

who do you think we should trade for ray lewis? i can\'t see the ravens being willing to a deal at any price, hes their whole franchise.

....you can\'t be serious.

Boogro · 04-13-2004, 07:41 PM

Look, I am not drafting Vilma if Hall and Robinson are gone. I don\'t think he can be classified as an elite linebacker. I don\'t think anyone coming out in this draft class can be called elite until they prove it on the field. I understand your (Rage) feelings in Vilma because I feel the same way about Hall and Robinson. I have read good things from all the guys we discuss. If we get 2 playmakers (lb,cb) thru the draft, I will be more than pleased. If Vilma is one of those guys, then so be it. It\'s just our preferences on who we want to draft (if available) in the first round. If Vilma and some street FA corner are our playmakers next year, then I will be more than satisfied and we can argue over how we going to beat so and so in the playoffs. We desperatley need playmakers at LB and CB. Agree? well, there ya go maybe we agreed on something so far.

JimBone · 04-13-2004, 09:22 PM

Yeah, Horn had nearly 1,000 yards last year...And that is very good for average receivers. I was saying that Horn may be on the downside of his career because he is 32, and he averaged over 1200 yards the 3 seasons before last. He could have easily had that many more and he probably should have had 15 TD\'s last year but he didnt play like Joe Horn. No one on this site loves Joe Horn more than i do but i am saying that we may not be able to rely on Joe for 90 catches and 1300 yards anymore. Joe didnt have a bad game, he had a bad season. That is usually a sign that he is on the downward slide. I hope that Joe comes back and makes the plays that Joe Horn made in the past...but i dont think it would be foolish to look for his replacement when there are so many playmakers available now. Thank you and God Bless.

D_it_up · 04-14-2004, 11:39 AM

The Joe Horn game you were referring to was the Bucs game, B n B. I was freakin IRATE at that...He was wide open in the end zone and just dropped it like French Quarter hooker. IMO, the main reason Horn wasn\'t effective last year was because the main #2 receiver, Stallworth, was injured most of the year. This left Pathon as the #2 and who else was left? Lewis? Gardner? No wonder are receivers were pathetic last year. Pathon, no matter what anyone says, is NOT a legitimate #2. He\'s decent and makes a great #3, but that\'s about the extent of it. He doesn\'t draw enough attention for defenders to go man-to-man. Horn was doubled up on like a well-hung man by two blondes in a porn flick. If I were in the war room, I\'d definitely be looking at linebacker first and foremost. Corner would be my 2A pick, and WR definitely with 2B. Who knows how the receivers will perform last year? Using an early pick on someone with the possibility of being a future star does not bother me in the least. Just make sure that linebacker and corner are addressed accordingly.

Cadillac · 04-14-2004, 12:02 PM

My main problem with drafting Vilma is this. He\'s a MLB that many scouts are predicting will have to move to WLB in the NFL.

But we already have Cie Grant. a player who may have to move back to WLB. Not to mention our best LB from last year was our WLB. (Rodgers)

Vilma and Cie are the same type of player, and if neither works out as a MLB, we\'re whooped. We\'d have 3 good WLBs and still a weak unit overall.

Because of that, I\'d prefer Donta Thomas with 2a rather than Vilma with 1. Donta is a MLB that coulc also be a SLB, rather than another MLB/WLB guy. That way, if Cie is a success in the middle, we don\'t have to worry about Sedrick \"Houdini\" Hodge anymore. If Cie isn\'t successful, he can move over to WLB, and Thomas can play the middle.

To be honest, I\'d really like to see the Saints trade down in the first. If Hall and Robinson are gone, I\'d really like to see the Saints move back, draft Strait, and get some extra picks as well.

Cadillac · 04-14-2004, 12:12 PM

In a previous post, regarding corners, rAge says....

I know that, but the need to take one in round 1 is now just not there. We can pick up one in the 2nd and let him develop...and chances are, he will be better than the over-rated crap that will go in the first round anyway.

So he\'d rather take a corner in the 2nd and let him develop? But later, he says....

If we take Dunta Robinson, I will hope for the best. But it\'s going to take time for him to develop and just do not believe that we have time to develop a corner now.

rAge, you contradicted yourself in the same thread buddy. So what is it man, are you coming, or going??

rAge · 04-14-2004, 01:00 PM

In a previous post, regarding corners, rAge says....

I know that, but the need to take one in round 1 is now just not there. We can pick up one in the 2nd and let him develop...and chances are, he will be better than the over-rated crap that will go in the first round anyway.

So he\'d rather take a corner in the 2nd and let him develop? But later, he says....

If we take Dunta Robinson, I will hope for the best. But it\'s going to take time for him to develop and just do not believe that we have time to develop a corner now.

rAge, you contradicted yourself in the same thread buddy. So what is it man, are you coming, or going??

We don\'t have time for a first rounder to develop, that was my point. Besides that, the 2nd round CB\'s could develop a lot faster than the \'raw\' 1st round guys (I know I\'ve said it before, but look at Mathis & Tillman last year and compare to Woolfolk)

Cadillac · 04-14-2004, 01:41 PM

We don\'t have time for a first rounder to develop, that was my point. Besides that, the 2nd round CB\'s could develop a lot faster than the \'raw\' 1st round guys (I know I\'ve said it before, but look at Mathis & Tillman last year and compare to Woolfolk)

You\'re right, undoubtably some second round corners will end up being better than some of the first round corners. The problem is, you don\'t know which second round corners are going to turn out better than expected. If teams knew Tillman was going to be better than Woolfork, than Tillman would of been drafted before Woolfork. This is the same for any postion, LINEBACKERS INCLUDED.

The players who are more likely to succeed are drafted first. So we would have the BEST chance of getting a quality corner if we chose one with our first pick rather than with our second. You said yourself, you don\'t think we have time to let a corner develop. So why wait until the second to draft one? How could that be any better for the team?

04-12-2004, 11:26 PM	#21
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 You forgot to mention Newman and Trufant. Why? Because the had good years. Newman was the 4th rated corner before he worked out. After he worked out and ran, he became the top corner in the draft. Kinda souns like Hall to me. So, yeah I believe Hall and Robinson can be just as good as Newman and Trufant so I am not againt drafting either of them. Who\'s to say we can\'t draft a starting linebacker in the second round? I guess since your the expert on 2004 NFL draft linebackers you know better. I didn\'t mention them because they were looked upon as lockdown corners long before the draft and they had solid rookie years. I was just pointing out that the top 3 CB\'s in this years draft are only as talented as the 3rd, 4th and 5th corners from last year and that we can probably find a better corner in round 2...a corner that is only in round 2 because he went to a small school (like tillman & mathis last year). And I don\'t know where you were going, but Newman was rated as a top 2-3 corner his entire final season of college and Trufant was right there with him. The top three corners in this years draft aren\'t half as talented as those two guys. And I know we can get a starting LB in the 2nd round. Hell, you can probably get a very good LB in the 2nd round this year (like, rod davis). But do you want a very good LB, or an elite LB? I\'ll take elite any day. Ray Lewis or Mike Peterson, that is basically what it amounts to. I would be happy with either, but I would much rather have Ray. If we take Dunta Robinson, I will hope for the best. But it\'s going to take time for him to develop and just do not believe that we have time to develop a corner now.
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	http://www.cutandpastescripts.com/cg...=forgottenrage

04-12-2004, 11:39 PM	#22
DatFu Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 57	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 who do you think we should trade for ray lewis? i can\'t see the ravens being willing to a deal at any price, hes their whole franchise.
DatFu Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 57

04-13-2004, 12:40 AM	#23
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 who do you think we should trade for ray lewis? i can\'t see the ravens being willing to a deal at any price, hes their whole franchise. ....you can\'t be serious.
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320

04-13-2004, 07:41 PM	#24
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 Look, I am not drafting Vilma if Hall and Robinson are gone. I don\'t think he can be classified as an elite linebacker. I don\'t think anyone coming out in this draft class can be called elite until they prove it on the field. I understand your (Rage) feelings in Vilma because I feel the same way about Hall and Robinson. I have read good things from all the guys we discuss. If we get 2 playmakers (lb,cb) thru the draft, I will be more than pleased. If Vilma is one of those guys, then so be it. It\'s just our preferences on who we want to draft (if available) in the first round. If Vilma and some street FA corner are our playmakers next year, then I will be more than satisfied and we can argue over how we going to beat so and so in the playoffs. We desperatley need playmakers at LB and CB. Agree? well, there ya go maybe we agreed on something so far.

04-13-2004, 09:22 PM	#25
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 Yeah, Horn had nearly 1,000 yards last year...And that is very good for average receivers. I was saying that Horn may be on the downside of his career because he is 32, and he averaged over 1200 yards the 3 seasons before last. He could have easily had that many more and he probably should have had 15 TD\'s last year but he didnt play like Joe Horn. No one on this site loves Joe Horn more than i do but i am saying that we may not be able to rely on Joe for 90 catches and 1300 yards anymore. Joe didnt have a bad game, he had a bad season. That is usually a sign that he is on the downward slide. I hope that Joe comes back and makes the plays that Joe Horn made in the past...but i dont think it would be foolish to look for his replacement when there are so many playmakers available now. Thank you and God Bless.
	Aaaaaayyyyyy!! -The Fonz

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04-14-2004, 11:39 AM	#26
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 The Joe Horn game you were referring to was the Bucs game, B n B. I was freakin IRATE at that...He was wide open in the end zone and just dropped it like French Quarter hooker. IMO, the main reason Horn wasn\'t effective last year was because the main #2 receiver, Stallworth, was injured most of the year. This left Pathon as the #2 and who else was left? Lewis? Gardner? No wonder are receivers were pathetic last year. Pathon, no matter what anyone says, is NOT a legitimate #2. He\'s decent and makes a great #3, but that\'s about the extent of it. He doesn\'t draw enough attention for defenders to go man-to-man. Horn was doubled up on like a well-hung man by two blondes in a porn flick. If I were in the war room, I\'d definitely be looking at linebacker first and foremost. Corner would be my 2A pick, and WR definitely with 2B. Who knows how the receivers will perform last year? Using an early pick on someone with the possibility of being a future star does not bother me in the least. Just make sure that linebacker and corner are addressed accordingly.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

04-14-2004, 12:02 PM	#27
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 My main problem with drafting Vilma is this. He\'s a MLB that many scouts are predicting will have to move to WLB in the NFL. But we already have Cie Grant. a player who may have to move back to WLB. Not to mention our best LB from last year was our WLB. (Rodgers) Vilma and Cie are the same type of player, and if neither works out as a MLB, we\'re whooped. We\'d have 3 good WLBs and still a weak unit overall. Because of that, I\'d prefer Donta Thomas with 2a rather than Vilma with 1. Donta is a MLB that coulc also be a SLB, rather than another MLB/WLB guy. That way, if Cie is a success in the middle, we don\'t have to worry about Sedrick \"Houdini\" Hodge anymore. If Cie isn\'t successful, he can move over to WLB, and Thomas can play the middle. To be honest, I\'d really like to see the Saints trade down in the first. If Hall and Robinson are gone, I\'d really like to see the Saints move back, draft Strait, and get some extra picks as well.
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	\'They want to give me $6 million. What do I do? - Fred Thomas

04-14-2004, 12:12 PM	#28
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 In a previous post, regarding corners, rAge says.... I know that, but the need to take one in round 1 is now just not there. We can pick up one in the 2nd and let him develop...and chances are, he will be better than the over-rated crap that will go in the first round anyway. So he\'d rather take a corner in the 2nd and let him develop? But later, he says.... If we take Dunta Robinson, I will hope for the best. But it\'s going to take time for him to develop and just do not believe that we have time to develop a corner now. rAge, you contradicted yourself in the same thread buddy. So what is it man, are you coming, or going??
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121

04-14-2004, 01:00 PM	#29
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 In a previous post, regarding corners, rAge says.... I know that, but the need to take one in round 1 is now just not there. We can pick up one in the 2nd and let him develop...and chances are, he will be better than the over-rated crap that will go in the first round anyway. So he\'d rather take a corner in the 2nd and let him develop? But later, he says.... If we take Dunta Robinson, I will hope for the best. But it\'s going to take time for him to develop and just do not believe that we have time to develop a corner now. rAge, you contradicted yourself in the same thread buddy. So what is it man, are you coming, or going?? We don\'t have time for a first rounder to develop, that was my point. Besides that, the 2nd round CB\'s could develop a lot faster than the \'raw\' 1st round guys (I know I\'ve said it before, but look at Mathis & Tillman last year and compare to Woolfolk)
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320

04-14-2004, 01:41 PM	#30
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 We don\'t have time for a first rounder to develop, that was my point. Besides that, the 2nd round CB\'s could develop a lot faster than the \'raw\' 1st round guys (I know I\'ve said it before, but look at Mathis & Tillman last year and compare to Woolfolk) You\'re right, undoubtably some second round corners will end up being better than some of the first round corners. The problem is, you don\'t know which second round corners are going to turn out better than expected. If teams knew Tillman was going to be better than Woolfork, than Tillman would of been drafted before Woolfork. This is the same for any postion, LINEBACKERS INCLUDED. The players who are more likely to succeed are drafted first. So we would have the BEST chance of getting a quality corner if we chose one with our first pick rather than with our second. You said yourself, you don\'t think we have time to let a corner develop. So why wait until the second to draft one? How could that be any better for the team?
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	\'They want to give me $6 million. What do I do? - Fred Thomas