We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1

rAge · 04-14-2004, 02:16 PM

We don\'t have time for a first rounder to develop, that was my point. Besides that, the 2nd round CB\'s could develop a lot faster than the \'raw\' 1st round guys (I know I\'ve said it before, but look at Mathis & Tillman last year and compare to Woolfolk)

You\'re right, undoubtably some second round corners will end up being better than some of the first round corners. The problem is, you don\'t know which second round corners are going to turn out better than expected. If teams knew Tillman was going to be better than Woolfork, than Tillman would of been drafted before Woolfork. This is the same for any postion, LINEBACKERS INCLUDED.

The players who are more likely to succeed are drafted first. So we would have the BEST chance of getting a quality corner if we chose one with our first pick rather than with our second. You said yourself, you don\'t think we have time to let a corner develop. So why wait until the second to draft one? How could that be any better for the team?

Tillman & Mathis were drafted in the 2nd because they came from a small school, not because people didn\'t think they had the talent. Those guys dominated on their level, much like Joey Thomas & Keith Smith in this draft. Woolfork was drafted in the first because of potential, he is a very raw prospect that needs time to develop...much like Hall, Gamble & Robinson (especially the last two, who only have one year at corner). It would be better for us to take a corner in round 2 because the chances of them coming in and starting by mid-season are greater than if we took one of the top three, who need at least a full year to develop before they should even see starting time. I am tired of drafting on potential - I want to see production NOW.

Cadillac · 04-14-2004, 02:33 PM

Woolfork was drafted in the first because of potential, he is a very raw prospect that needs time to develop...much like Hall, Gamble & Robinson (especially the last two, who only have one year at corner). It would be better for us to take a corner in round 2 because the chances of them coming in and starting by mid-season are greater than if we took one of the top three, who need at least a full year to develop before they should even see starting time.

Dunta Robinson played 2 full years of corner at USC. You\'re facts are as flawed as your logic. :P

I am in full agreement with you regarding Chris Gamble, I don\'t think he is NFL ready and I don\'t think he will ever really be an elite cornerback.

But I don\'t think you can honestly believe that Keith Smith is more NFL ready than Dunta Robinson or DeAngleo Hall. I highly doubt ANYONE with any real football knowledge could believe that.

rAge · 04-14-2004, 03:14 PM

Dunta Robinson played 2 full years of corner at USC. You\'re facts are as flawed as your logic. :P

I am in full agreement with you regarding Chris Gamble, I don\'t think he is NFL ready and I don\'t think he will ever really be an elite cornerback.

But I don\'t think you can honestly believe that Keith Smith is more NFL ready than Dunta Robinson or DeAngleo Hall. I highly doubt ANYONE with any real football knowledge could believe that.

Everything that I have read said that he moved from Saftey to Corner this year. And even if he did play two years, he is still very raw and should not see any real starting time this year.

I think Gamble will turn out to be the best of the bunch, but I don\'t think we can afford to take the time to develop him (you\'re probably looking at two full seasons before he is even ready). I also don\'t know if our coaching staff has the talent to develop a guy like him. Send him to the Patriots and he could be starting by the end of the year, send him to the Bears and he may never be a starter.

I haven\'t seen enough of Keith Smith to really say. I base most of what I know about him on what I have read. He could be this year\'s Charles Tillman, but I don\'t think anyone believes Hall or Robinson can be this year\'s Trufant or Newman. Is he more NFL ready? Who knows. But when you can pick up an NFL ready player in round 1 (vilma) and still get a guy that could be more ready (at corner) in round 2, why wouldn\'t ya?

Cadillac · 04-14-2004, 03:39 PM

But when you can pick up an NFL ready player in round 1 (vilma) and still get a guy that could be more ready (at corner) in round 2, why wouldn\'t ya?

Because I\'d rather take a top corner in round 1 (Dunta) and stil get a guy that is NFL ready in round 2 (Donta Thomas or Teddy Lehmen).

I disagree with you on two points, which is what this argument has really boiled down to.

1. I think Vilma will be a good linebacker. He may or may not be great.
You think Vilma will definitely be one of the game\'s eliite linebackers.

2. I feel that Dunta is the most NFL ready of the cornerback prospects and could start fairly quickly. I feel some other corners (Hall, Strait, and possibly Joey Thomas) should also be able to start fairly quickly.
You think that some 2nd round corners (Joey Thomas, Keith Smith?) will be able to come in and start just as quickly as the corners likely to go in the first round.

So it comes down to you wanting Vilma in 1, and Joey Thomas or Keith Smith in 2.
While I\'d prefer Dunta in 1, and Donta Thomas or Teddy Lehmen in 2.

When you think about it, our draft philosophies really aren\'t that different, the difference is just in our opinions of the draft prospects.

[Edited on 14/4/2004 by Cadillac]

JimBone · 04-14-2004, 06:45 PM

Dunta Robinson is the most NFL ready player of anyone we have debated. Vilma and Hall are both more talented but there are questions one way or the other on both of them. There is no way the Saints can pass on Robinson if he is there. Vilma and Hall may both be great, they may both be good, but you just dont know. Vilma has never played at the weight he is gonna be playing at so we just dont know how that is gonna fare. If he does make the adjustment well, he will be a solid, if not great, linebacker in the NFL.

WhoDat · 04-14-2004, 08:58 PM

IMO, the main reason Horn wasn\'t effective last year was because the main #2 receiver, Stallworth, was injured most of the year. This left Pathon as the #2 and who else was left? Lewis? Gardner? No wonder are receivers were pathetic last year. Pathon, no matter what anyone says, is NOT a legitimate #2. He\'s decent and makes a great #3, but that\'s about the extent of it. He doesn\'t draw enough attention for defenders to go man-to-man. Horn was doubled up on like a well-hung man by two blondes in a porn flick.

This is the best comment in this thread so far, and to be honest, something I hadn\'t really thought about much until you said it. Where ya been D? You gotta come by more often.

JimBone · 04-14-2004, 09:03 PM

It wouldnt matter who was lining up with Horn against Tennessee or Tampa. He flat out dropped simple TD passes. That had nothing to do with Stallworth or Pathon. Thank you and God Bless.

04-14-2004, 02:16 PM	#31
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 We don\'t have time for a first rounder to develop, that was my point. Besides that, the 2nd round CB\'s could develop a lot faster than the \'raw\' 1st round guys (I know I\'ve said it before, but look at Mathis & Tillman last year and compare to Woolfolk) You\'re right, undoubtably some second round corners will end up being better than some of the first round corners. The problem is, you don\'t know which second round corners are going to turn out better than expected. If teams knew Tillman was going to be better than Woolfork, than Tillman would of been drafted before Woolfork. This is the same for any postion, LINEBACKERS INCLUDED. The players who are more likely to succeed are drafted first. So we would have the BEST chance of getting a quality corner if we chose one with our first pick rather than with our second. You said yourself, you don\'t think we have time to let a corner develop. So why wait until the second to draft one? How could that be any better for the team? Tillman & Mathis were drafted in the 2nd because they came from a small school, not because people didn\'t think they had the talent. Those guys dominated on their level, much like Joey Thomas & Keith Smith in this draft. Woolfork was drafted in the first because of potential, he is a very raw prospect that needs time to develop...much like Hall, Gamble & Robinson (especially the last two, who only have one year at corner). It would be better for us to take a corner in round 2 because the chances of them coming in and starting by mid-season are greater than if we took one of the top three, who need at least a full year to develop before they should even see starting time. I am tired of drafting on potential - I want to see production NOW.
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	http://www.cutandpastescripts.com/cg...=forgottenrage

04-14-2004, 02:33 PM	#32
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 Woolfork was drafted in the first because of potential, he is a very raw prospect that needs time to develop...much like Hall, Gamble & Robinson (especially the last two, who only have one year at corner). It would be better for us to take a corner in round 2 because the chances of them coming in and starting by mid-season are greater than if we took one of the top three, who need at least a full year to develop before they should even see starting time. Dunta Robinson played 2 full years of corner at USC. You\'re facts are as flawed as your logic. :P I am in full agreement with you regarding Chris Gamble, I don\'t think he is NFL ready and I don\'t think he will ever really be an elite cornerback. But I don\'t think you can honestly believe that Keith Smith is more NFL ready than Dunta Robinson or DeAngleo Hall. I highly doubt ANYONE with any real football knowledge could believe that.
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121

04-14-2004, 03:14 PM	#33
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 Dunta Robinson played 2 full years of corner at USC. You\'re facts are as flawed as your logic. :P I am in full agreement with you regarding Chris Gamble, I don\'t think he is NFL ready and I don\'t think he will ever really be an elite cornerback. But I don\'t think you can honestly believe that Keith Smith is more NFL ready than Dunta Robinson or DeAngleo Hall. I highly doubt ANYONE with any real football knowledge could believe that. Everything that I have read said that he moved from Saftey to Corner this year. And even if he did play two years, he is still very raw and should not see any real starting time this year. I think Gamble will turn out to be the best of the bunch, but I don\'t think we can afford to take the time to develop him (you\'re probably looking at two full seasons before he is even ready). I also don\'t know if our coaching staff has the talent to develop a guy like him. Send him to the Patriots and he could be starting by the end of the year, send him to the Bears and he may never be a starter. I haven\'t seen enough of Keith Smith to really say. I base most of what I know about him on what I have read. He could be this year\'s Charles Tillman, but I don\'t think anyone believes Hall or Robinson can be this year\'s Trufant or Newman. Is he more NFL ready? Who knows. But when you can pick up an NFL ready player in round 1 (vilma) and still get a guy that could be more ready (at corner) in round 2, why wouldn\'t ya?
rAge 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 320	http://www.cutandpastescripts.com/cg...=forgottenrage

04-14-2004, 03:39 PM	#34
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 But when you can pick up an NFL ready player in round 1 (vilma) and still get a guy that could be more ready (at corner) in round 2, why wouldn\'t ya? Because I\'d rather take a top corner in round 1 (Dunta) and stil get a guy that is NFL ready in round 2 (Donta Thomas or Teddy Lehmen). I disagree with you on two points, which is what this argument has really boiled down to. 1. I think Vilma will be a good linebacker. He may or may not be great. You think Vilma will definitely be one of the game\'s eliite linebackers. 2. I feel that Dunta is the most NFL ready of the cornerback prospects and could start fairly quickly. I feel some other corners (Hall, Strait, and possibly Joey Thomas) should also be able to start fairly quickly. You think that some 2nd round corners (Joey Thomas, Keith Smith?) will be able to come in and start just as quickly as the corners likely to go in the first round. So it comes down to you wanting Vilma in 1, and Joey Thomas or Keith Smith in 2. While I\'d prefer Dunta in 1, and Donta Thomas or Teddy Lehmen in 2. When you think about it, our draft philosophies really aren\'t that different, the difference is just in our opinions of the draft prospects. [Edited on 14/4/2004 by Cadillac]
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	\'They want to give me $6 million. What do I do? - Fred Thomas

04-14-2004, 06:45 PM	#35
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 Dunta Robinson is the most NFL ready player of anyone we have debated. Vilma and Hall are both more talented but there are questions one way or the other on both of them. There is no way the Saints can pass on Robinson if he is there. Vilma and Hall may both be great, they may both be good, but you just dont know. Vilma has never played at the weight he is gonna be playing at so we just dont know how that is gonna fare. If he does make the adjustment well, he will be a solid, if not great, linebacker in the NFL.
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04-14-2004, 08:58 PM	#36
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 IMO, the main reason Horn wasn\'t effective last year was because the main #2 receiver, Stallworth, was injured most of the year. This left Pathon as the #2 and who else was left? Lewis? Gardner? No wonder are receivers were pathetic last year. Pathon, no matter what anyone says, is NOT a legitimate #2. He\'s decent and makes a great #3, but that\'s about the extent of it. He doesn\'t draw enough attention for defenders to go man-to-man. Horn was doubled up on like a well-hung man by two blondes in a porn flick. This is the best comment in this thread so far, and to be honest, something I hadn\'t really thought about much until you said it. Where ya been D? You gotta come by more often.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-14-2004, 09:03 PM	#37
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	We Aren't Targeting a CB in Round 1 It wouldnt matter who was lining up with Horn against Tennessee or Tampa. He flat out dropped simple TD passes. That had nothing to do with Stallworth or Pathon. Thank you and God Bless.