GumboBC

I\'m going to change my name to \"spreadingtrutheverywhere.\"

Let me spread a litte \"truth\" now!!

We led 31-7 in the 4th quarter. The offense really let us down. How many points did you want the offense to score 08? -- 45, 65, 98??? How much would they have had to score to please you? You might want to examine why they were even in the game.

GumboBC

If anyone wants to read more about that game. Here\'s a good article on it..


http://www.sptimes.com/News/123100/S...e_rally_.shtml


This is my favorite part.........



[Edited on 14/5/2004 by GumboBC]

DatFu

speakin of leaders







[Edited on 14/5/2004 by DatFu]

subguy

Billy .....can you not let this rest? There has always been and always will be division on this topic. There are those living with pipe dreams and those that support our team but are realistic with the faults regardless of what we are talking about. AB is not a leader and never will be a leader. Leadership is not a taught behaviour. Respect is not dropped on you. These are part of a personality and respect is earned. Leadership is highly valued in all walks of life. Football or any organized sport are no different. Highly effective CEO\'s are generally great leaders. The list you compiled totally refuted your argument. I see a list of leaders. At least the vast majority. AB lacks the meantal maturity,giggling during the Indy a** whooping is a fine example. Talent wise, the guy is a fine athlete. He did better this past with being more careful with his passes, now we have the fumble issue to conquer. Football is a many man effort.....so when people say why blame AB for the teams lack of success.....how can we give him credit for the playoff win? The defense has to help support the team also. No team will ever have a chance without cohesiveness. So leadership smeadershp back at you. Without leaders there is chaos......look at the dysfunctional family of the NFL ........New Orleans

PS. The Bengals have always had the same issues...no leadership anywhere......top down.....last year a glimmer we will see what leadership may bring them this season.

Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

JKool

(1) There is a difference between giggling and smiling. One is a nervous habit that others need to get over, the other is just plain stupid. I, for one, don\'t remember any giggling.

(2) Isn\'t odd that everyone thinks they are a realist, no matter what side of the fence they are on.

(3) Leadership is a learned behavior. Granted it is probably too late for AB, but no one is born a leader. How many 6 month olds do you know who are great leaders? That is, leadership is not purely genetic (if at all), so you must learn it somehow - wether it is great role models, great parenting, making the most of your relation to your environment, or whathaveyou. It is not at all clear to me that people cannot improve who they are and become leaders; in fact, isn\'t there some wisdom to the idea that tough situations make great leaders - that is, leadership is born of need in many cases?

(4) As has been repeated over and over and over again, there is no need for the QB to be the leader of the team. It would be nice sure, since he is such a visible member of the team, but, as Billy points out, teams can be very successful (NO MATTER HOW YOU MEASURE SUCCESS) without a leader at the QB position.

(5) Here in the USA, we think that a pill can get you over \"social anxeity\", which amounts more-or-less to \"being shy\". Why in the world would we think that someone who is not a leader couldn\'t become one. I\'ve seen 18 yr. old bums mature in just one year (the difference between the kids who are freshmen and them when they are sophomores is HUGE). Why couldn\'t AB have grown up finally? I see no reason to think that \"growing up\" isn\'t delayed in the NFL - for goodness sake these are men who play a game for a living. I bet sooner or later it dawns on you that this is your job and not just a game. I see every reason to think that AB hasn\'t reached that revelation (espc. the quotes in this thread); this gives me reason to hope he might just suddenly grow up and be a leader. Why do you think it is impossible?

Ok, I think I\'m done ranting. We\'ll see...

PS - It there is some topic you don\'t feel like revisiting, don\'t read it.

PPS - Ok, I think that was suitably antagonistic.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

GumboBC

As Shakespeare once said:

Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night: “Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.�

[Edited on 16/5/2004 by GumboBC]

GumboBC

One last thing on this \"leadership\" subject.

Some people think that \"leaders\" are \"leaders\" and they believe that if someone is \"born\" a leader that it will serve them well in all walks of life. However, this is a totally false assumption.

\"Leaders\" are called \"leaders\" because other people are willing to \"follow\" them. People usually follow others because they have shown to have a certain \"skill\" that is successful.

While John Elway was able to lead his men on the football field, I don\'t know too many people that would be willing to follow Elway into battle in Iraq with machine guns in hand.

In short, if John Elway wasn\'t a \"skilled\" soldier that could demsonstrate he was good on the battle field, no one would follow him. Not for long at least. They would soon lose confidence in his leadership. But, because John Elway proved he could throw the football and make plays with his feet, other players believed in him and were willing to follow him

It wasn\'t because John Elway was a \"born\" leader that other players \"followed\" him. It was because he demonstrated to have certain skills that were successful on the football field.

And that\'s the thing Aaron Brooks must do before players on the team will truly believe in him. He must demonstrate that he ccan make plays when needed. It\'s much less to do about Aaron being a \"born\" leader. It\'s about proving himself.



[Edited on 17/5/2004 by GumboBC]

subguy

I now see the light...........I was incorrect..........I am sure this will be the year.....as was last year and the year before and so on and so on. I now believe that AB is not immature and is a qualified leader. One of the qualities that make someone a great leader is charisma. How do you teach charisma? AB needs to prove something to the naysayers and everyone will gladly eat a plate of crow and shut their mouths. Fact is he hasn\'t done that. Until that time he will face criticizm and scrutiny, rightfully so. One does not wake up one morning after a visit from the leadership fairy and \"poof\" he is a leader. There are certain traits and characteristics that make a leader and I have not obeserved any in AB. Elway was a leader where he was suppose to be a leader, on the football field. Who cares about what Elway might do in Iraq? I dont think it is odd at all that people think they are realists regardless of which side of the fence they are on. It is called conviction,having a point of view. Also I dont think Billy pointed out his success quotient at all. Have you looked at the majority of the names on his list? Leaders on the gridiron. As a refresher, review your film, after the starters were for the most part pulled in the 4th quarter of the Indy game, yes AB was standing on the sidelines joking it up. As far as a nervous habit and giggling or smiling or laughing, after an interception that is clearly a maturity/leadership issue. Although Marino may not of taken the Fins to the Pearly Gates do you not consider him a leader, a field general? Do you recall Marino smiling after throwing an interception? I only recall him cussing at himself and disgusted by his mistake. Did Marino exhibit his leadership abilities? His receivers knew who the leader was. Once again, this has nothing to do with AB\'s athletic abilty. AB has talent and yes it will take a full team effort. The past season\'s when we have collapsed who has stepped forward to be the guy\'s to rally the troops, offensively or defensively? That is part of what this team lacks. The coaches can do some of it, but players need to step up to help the cause.

[Edited on 17/5/2004 by subguy]

Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

JKool

BC, nice quote. I agree.

Subguy, I respect your view. I also agree that AB is not a leader, but I say \"yet\" instead of \"never\". Can that \"yet\" be proven? No. But, the \"never\" is certainly unwarranted. No one was trying to suggest you were wrong; we were merely pointing out that people who think AB isn\'t a leader suffer two problems: (1) leadership is overrated (though, I\'m not sure what I think about that yet, Billy et.al. have given me stuff to think about), and (2) there isn\'t enough evidence, given what we can say about leadership and players in the NFL, to say that AB will never be a leader.

Interestingly, it seems there are several components to leadership:
(1) Physical skill - lead by doing (it is clear that AB COULD do this)
(2) Ability under pressure - lead by coming through when others need you, making big plays, and doing things that help others succeed in the face of adversity (this is something that AB gets mixed reviews on)
(3) Charisma - lead by communcating well with others (it is clear to me that AB is NOT doing this right now - but see my earlier \"growing up\" argument)
(4) Others?

As far as the interceptions thingy - I don\'t see why anyone cares what you look like after a pick, so long as you go back on the field and do your job. I used to play with a guy who\'d get upset, then he\'d go back out and do stupid stuff - forcing the ball all over the place to make a point. Who needs that!? I\'d rather have the guy who shrugs it off and does his job.

I like the idea of a leadership fairy; that made me laugh.

My point about realism had nothing to do with having a view. It is plain as day to me that everyone here has a view; I meant it was just odd that everyone cites \"realism\" as a virtue of their particular view, when they can\'t all possibly be right (realistic?). That was just a comment not a criticism of anyone.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

subguy

Where else but B&G? And you gotta like that!