Aaron Brooks and leadership

GumboBC · 05-14-2004, 11:05 AM

For the record, I am glad to see BC back on the boards (been meaning to say that for a while now). He always livens things up. However, it makes me wonder at every time \'08 posts something remotely negative, he gets called out on his alleged agenda. Yet this post, which is a purely open attempt to support Brooks (who we all know BC supports - to the death) gets not a peep from the \"agenda-hounds\". Just an interesting observation.....

FrenzyFan -- Thanks for the welcome. It\'s good to be back. I don\'t know if I have an agenda, other than trying to get to the truth about some things. I\'m not saying that I\'m always right, or that I\'m ever right. But, I say what I feel is the truth. Everyone has the right to beleive what they choose. I don\'t know about the \"agenda-hounds\" not calling me on this post -- They seem to be doing a good job --

WhoDat --

No Billy, I got your point entirely... you\'re wrong. Leadership is valued exactly as it should be in this league, IMO. YOU undervalue it and are downplaying its importance. Further, you talk about team talent and how important it is and then show us SB teams from over a decade ago? That\'s not today\'s NFL Billy Boy.

I might be wrong WhoDat. Leadership might be the number one thing you look for when drafting a QB. Maybe that\'s been the number one problem on this team. Maybe if Brooks chewed a few folks out we would have won a super bowl by now and all this talent would have played up to potential. Maybe, Joe Horn and the receivers wouldn\'t have dropped all those passes last year. Maybe the special teams would have been special last year. Maybe the defense would have been one of the better units in the league.

Now, we can belive Brooks\' leadership could have changed all that OR we can believe that something else was responsible for that. I think you know that Brooks\' leadership was not responsible for that nor could have it changed any of it. That\'s why I say leadership is being blown way out of porportion. Like I said, everyone will have to decide for themselves.

saintfan · 05-14-2004, 12:21 PM

Brooks\' leadership abilities (or lack thereof) aside, our offense scores enough to win people, leadership smeadership. When our defense steps up and stops allowing 17-20 points a game we\'ll have a fighting chance.

See, we can debate (again) the leadership of Brooks and the QB position and all that stuff, but the REAL question is who\'s gonna step up and lead the team on defense. Honestly, Joe Horn running out of the end zone to hand that ball to Brooks last year told me all I needed to know about the respect he (and probably others) has for Brooks. We\'ve also go Deuce and Joe (and Jerry is back again which is good news) and there are other players on offense capable to providing this \"leadership\" thing. We need it on Defense guys...doncha think?

[Edited on 14/5/2004 by saintfan]

GumboBC · 05-14-2004, 01:35 PM

I THINK we covered \"leadership\" enough to satisfy my curiosity. There\'s another subject that is brought up about Brooks that had me curious. There\'s some members that claim Brooks can\'t read defenses. They claim he locks onto Joe Horn and doesn\'t distribute the ball around. Well, I compared Brooks distribution to some other QB\'s around the league and here\'s what I found.....

Peyton Manning - 379 Completions
M.Harrison 102 -26.9%
D.Clark 56- 14.7%
D.Haddad 41- 10.8%
A.Moorehead 35 -9.2%
B.Allen 23
R.Redd 22

Aaron Brooks - 306 completions
Joe Horn 78 -25.4%
Deuce McAllister 69 -22.5%
Jerome Pathon 44 - 14.3%
Boo Williams 41 -13.3%
Ernie Conwell 26 8.4%
Donte\' Stallworth 25 -8.1%

Tom Brady - 373 Completions
Troy Brown 97 -26.0%
David Patten 61- 16.3%
Deion Branch 43- 11.5%
Kevin Faulk 37- 9.9%
Antowain Smith 31- 8.3%
Christian Fauria 27- 7.2%

Looks to me, Brooks distributes the ball around better than ANY of those QB\'s??

What ya\'ll think??

[Edited on 14/5/2004 by GumboBC]

BrooksMustGo · 05-14-2004, 01:49 PM

I wonder how many of those 69 completions to Deuce are designed passes to Deuce or just broken plays that our sandlot QB is trying to improvise?

I\'m not sure those numbers demonstrate any Brooksian prowess in reading defenses, but maybe astonishing luck in pulling something from his colon on the fly?

GumboBC · 05-14-2004, 01:55 PM

I wonder how many of those 69 completions to Deuce are designed passes to Deuce or just broken plays that our sandlot QB is trying to improvise?

I\'m not sure those numbers demonstrate any Brooksian prowess in reading defenses, but maybe astonishing luck in pulling something from his colon on the fly?

So, basically you\'re saying you don\'t know if Brooks is throwing to correct read or not? Sounds like what you\'re saying to me......

Which is what I thought when folks complain about Brooks not thowing to right player.

BrooksMustGo · 05-14-2004, 02:01 PM

So, basically you\'re saying you don\'t know if Brooks is throwing to correct read or not? Sounds like what you\'re saying to me......

Actually I wonder if Deuce is the automatic 2nd receiver on every play. Does Brooks look to Horn and then dump it off to Deuce if Horn can\'t get separation? It looks more like sandlot ball than anything. If we ran more of a Raiders style short passing attack it would make more sense for Deuce to have so many receptions. Or is it just a designed homage to the way the Rams used to use Faulk or the way the Eagles used Staley?

GumboBC · 05-14-2004, 02:10 PM

So, basically you\'re saying you don\'t know if Brooks is throwing to correct read or not? Sounds like what you\'re saying to me......

Actually I wonder if Deuce is the automatic 2nd receiver on every play. Does Brooks look to Horn and then dump it off to Deuce if Horn can\'t get separation? It looks more like sandlot ball than anything. If we ran more of a Raiders style short passing attack it would make more sense for Deuce to have so many receptions. Or is it just a designed homage to the way the Rams used to use Faulk or the way the Eagles used Staley?

Here\'s the point, BMG. The point is, some of you guys make remarks about him not distributing the ball enough and say he can\'t read defenses. That\'s all good, you can say whatever you want. But the truth is, you guys do very little to back those statements up. I can make a better arguement that Peyton Manning locks onto Marvin Harrison than what you guys just randomly post.

I can make all kinds of statements. I can say Joe Horn is selfish, inconsistant, causes terrible team chemistry problems, and that Joe Horn is a BIG distration -- But, is it true?

I could say Joe Horn runs the wrong routes and gives up on plays. But, is it true. I\'d think I\'d need to bring up some proof that these things happen. I see no evidence that what ya\'ll are saying is the truth. What I see is just the opposite is true.

Haz08 · 05-14-2004, 03:02 PM

Aaron couldnt have won our playoff game if he wasnt a leader. We should be grateful to the man and stay off his back.

saintz08 · 05-14-2004, 03:42 PM

Aaron couldnt have won our playoff game if he wasnt a leader. We should be grateful to the man and stay off his back.

Some might argue that point and say Hakim gave it too the Saints .......

saintfan · 05-14-2004, 03:50 PM

Maybe so, Maybe not, but how many points did the team score? If the defense hadn\'t let \'em back in the game Hakim\'s little bit of misfortune wouldn\'t have mattered much.

05-14-2004, 11:05 AM	#21
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership For the record, I am glad to see BC back on the boards (been meaning to say that for a while now). He always livens things up. However, it makes me wonder at every time \'08 posts something remotely negative, he gets called out on his alleged agenda. Yet this post, which is a purely open attempt to support Brooks (who we all know BC supports - to the death) gets not a peep from the \"agenda-hounds\". Just an interesting observation..... FrenzyFan -- Thanks for the welcome. It\'s good to be back. I don\'t know if I have an agenda, other than trying to get to the truth about some things. I\'m not saying that I\'m always right, or that I\'m ever right. But, I say what I feel is the truth. Everyone has the right to beleive what they choose. I don\'t know about the \"agenda-hounds\" not calling me on this post -- They seem to be doing a good job -- WhoDat -- No Billy, I got your point entirely... you\'re wrong. Leadership is valued exactly as it should be in this league, IMO. YOU undervalue it and are downplaying its importance. Further, you talk about team talent and how important it is and then show us SB teams from over a decade ago? That\'s not today\'s NFL Billy Boy. I might be wrong WhoDat. Leadership might be the number one thing you look for when drafting a QB. Maybe that\'s been the number one problem on this team. Maybe if Brooks chewed a few folks out we would have won a super bowl by now and all this talent would have played up to potential. Maybe, Joe Horn and the receivers wouldn\'t have dropped all those passes last year. Maybe the special teams would have been special last year. Maybe the defense would have been one of the better units in the league. Now, we can belive Brooks\' leadership could have changed all that OR we can believe that something else was responsible for that. I think you know that Brooks\' leadership was not responsible for that nor could have it changed any of it. That\'s why I say leadership is being blown way out of porportion. Like I said, everyone will have to decide for themselves.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-14-2004, 12:21 PM	#22
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Aaron Brooks and leadership Brooks\' leadership abilities (or lack thereof) aside, our offense scores enough to win people, leadership smeadership. When our defense steps up and stops allowing 17-20 points a game we\'ll have a fighting chance. See, we can debate (again) the leadership of Brooks and the QB position and all that stuff, but the REAL question is who\'s gonna step up and lead the team on defense. Honestly, Joe Horn running out of the end zone to hand that ball to Brooks last year told me all I needed to know about the respect he (and probably others) has for Brooks. We\'ve also go Deuce and Joe (and Jerry is back again which is good news) and there are other players on offense capable to providing this \"leadership\" thing. We need it on Defense guys...doncha think? [Edited on 14/5/2004 by saintfan]
	C'mon Man...

05-14-2004, 01:35 PM	#23
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership I THINK we covered \"leadership\" enough to satisfy my curiosity. There\'s another subject that is brought up about Brooks that had me curious. There\'s some members that claim Brooks can\'t read defenses. They claim he locks onto Joe Horn and doesn\'t distribute the ball around. Well, I compared Brooks distribution to some other QB\'s around the league and here\'s what I found..... Peyton Manning - 379 Completions M.Harrison 102 -26.9% D.Clark 56- 14.7% D.Haddad 41- 10.8% A.Moorehead 35 -9.2% B.Allen 23 R.Redd 22 Aaron Brooks - 306 completions Joe Horn 78 -25.4% Deuce McAllister 69 -22.5% Jerome Pathon 44 - 14.3% Boo Williams 41 -13.3% Ernie Conwell 26 8.4% Donte\' Stallworth 25 -8.1% Tom Brady - 373 Completions Troy Brown 97 -26.0% David Patten 61- 16.3% Deion Branch 43- 11.5% Kevin Faulk 37- 9.9% Antowain Smith 31- 8.3% Christian Fauria 27- 7.2% Looks to me, Brooks distributes the ball around better than ANY of those QB\'s?? What ya\'ll think?? [Edited on 14/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-14-2004, 01:49 PM	#24
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Aaron Brooks and leadership I wonder how many of those 69 completions to Deuce are designed passes to Deuce or just broken plays that our sandlot QB is trying to improvise? I\'m not sure those numbers demonstrate any Brooksian prowess in reading defenses, but maybe astonishing luck in pulling something from his colon on the fly?

05-14-2004, 01:55 PM	#25
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership I wonder how many of those 69 completions to Deuce are designed passes to Deuce or just broken plays that our sandlot QB is trying to improvise? I\'m not sure those numbers demonstrate any Brooksian prowess in reading defenses, but maybe astonishing luck in pulling something from his colon on the fly? So, basically you\'re saying you don\'t know if Brooks is throwing to correct read or not? Sounds like what you\'re saying to me...... Which is what I thought when folks complain about Brooks not thowing to right player.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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05-14-2004, 02:01 PM	#26
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Aaron Brooks and leadership So, basically you\'re saying you don\'t know if Brooks is throwing to correct read or not? Sounds like what you\'re saying to me...... Actually I wonder if Deuce is the automatic 2nd receiver on every play. Does Brooks look to Horn and then dump it off to Deuce if Horn can\'t get separation? It looks more like sandlot ball than anything. If we ran more of a Raiders style short passing attack it would make more sense for Deuce to have so many receptions. Or is it just a designed homage to the way the Rams used to use Faulk or the way the Eagles used Staley?

05-14-2004, 02:10 PM	#27
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership So, basically you\'re saying you don\'t know if Brooks is throwing to correct read or not? Sounds like what you\'re saying to me...... Actually I wonder if Deuce is the automatic 2nd receiver on every play. Does Brooks look to Horn and then dump it off to Deuce if Horn can\'t get separation? It looks more like sandlot ball than anything. If we ran more of a Raiders style short passing attack it would make more sense for Deuce to have so many receptions. Or is it just a designed homage to the way the Rams used to use Faulk or the way the Eagles used Staley? Here\'s the point, BMG. The point is, some of you guys make remarks about him not distributing the ball enough and say he can\'t read defenses. That\'s all good, you can say whatever you want. But the truth is, you guys do very little to back those statements up. I can make a better arguement that Peyton Manning locks onto Marvin Harrison than what you guys just randomly post. I can make all kinds of statements. I can say Joe Horn is selfish, inconsistant, causes terrible team chemistry problems, and that Joe Horn is a BIG distration -- But, is it true? I could say Joe Horn runs the wrong routes and gives up on plays. But, is it true. I\'d think I\'d need to bring up some proof that these things happen. I see no evidence that what ya\'ll are saying is the truth. What I see is just the opposite is true.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-14-2004, 03:02 PM	#28
Haz08 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22	Aaron Brooks and leadership Aaron couldnt have won our playoff game if he wasnt a leader. We should be grateful to the man and stay off his back.
Haz08 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22

05-14-2004, 03:42 PM	#29
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Aaron Brooks and leadership Aaron couldnt have won our playoff game if he wasnt a leader. We should be grateful to the man and stay off his back. Some might argue that point and say Hakim gave it too the Saints .......
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

05-14-2004, 03:50 PM	#30
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Aaron Brooks and leadership Maybe so, Maybe not, but how many points did the team score? If the defense hadn\'t let \'em back in the game Hakim\'s little bit of misfortune wouldn\'t have mattered much.