Why Is the Defense So Bad?

Rell&Gold · 10-28-2012, 10:41 PM

We look like we are back at square one

OldMaid · 10-29-2012, 12:18 AM

I did not pick a point there to point on.
The defense is so bad because they simply are not interested in trying. Lazy. Get a NFL pay and call it a day. The youth and talent is there. Attitude is why bother.
Also, there is no boss. No coach.
No motivation. No self-motivation. No motivation and fear from the boss, Sean Payton. No reason. Just get out there and run a bit. Reach out a had to tackle the opponent.

onebyone · 10-29-2012, 12:24 AM

I don't know why their defense is so bad.

It is so bad it just doesn't make any sense. It seems like professional players could accidentally do better.

jeanpierre · 10-29-2012, 12:47 AM

Heads MUST roll Monday morning...

Any reason for why Broderick Bunkley was inactive?!?

Nemesis · 10-29-2012, 01:05 AM

cause we only have like 5 at most talented players on d?

Haps Biggest Fan · 10-29-2012, 02:07 AM

Mickey Loomis is the GM of the team. The GM's job is not only to be an accountant, but, also the GM's job is to be the football brains and talent eval brains. Your GM is supposed to build your roster.

The Falcons brought Dmitroff in as GM back in 2007. His job was NOT to be "just and accountant" like Loomis, but also to be the talent evaluator.

Point is this: If Benson has Loomis as GM ONLY to be a bean counter, then, the Front Office is built wrong and Loomis has the wrong job.

The GM needs to be a FOOTBALL MAN who knows player personnel and knows how to build a roster. Since LOOMIS is NOT a football man, he should NOT be GM.

The Saints have a habit of putting non football people in important football jobs. I remember when the Saints hired an ex astronaut to be GM back in the 60s.

Haps Biggest Fan · 10-29-2012, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

This guy hangs it on defensive talent evaluation, which is ultimately on Loomis...

Saints Nation: Saints Problems on Defense Due to Poor Talent Evaluation? | September

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

I don't think there is anything wrong with the scouting department. It's a big difference from college ball to NFL and majority of our picks had great college careers that haven't translated to great NFL beginnings. Ellis was good at USC, Jenkins was good at OSU. How does the scouting department know they will not succeed? Everybody on this board thought Glenn Dorsey was a future Hall of Famer, what has he done? No one knows how the transition from college to the NFL will affect players until after they are in the league. Can't blame that on the scouts. Anyone remember Brian Bosworth, the second coming of Dick Butkus? How did that work out. Look, we have rookies starting that were only suppose to be rotating in and out and vets trying to learn a new scheme. I know everyone is tired of hearing about new scheme but when you have been playing one way for 3 years then have to change to another way it takes time to trust it. You see a guy that runs across in front of you and your instinct wants you to follow him but the scheme says turn him loose to the next guy, it's hard to do when it's the first year you play that type of system. I do agree we need to see more Hicks and Gallette and Wilson but you also have to take in consideration their styles of play. They are speed guys and sometimes their speed can't take them out of position on running plays so that is why we only see them mostly on known passing situations. We will get better because quite frankly we can't get any worst but it will take time for our guys to trust the scheme and not react to what they see all the time.

Who IS the "scouting department" ? What are their names ?

Loomis is the GM. In your model NFL front office, your GM is you football player personnel guru who knows how to build a roster.

If the Saints roster sucks on D (and it does suck) that means that the FO is not getting the job done. That means LOOMIS is not getting the job done.

People say "well Loomis is not a football guy, he's just an accountant". Well, Benson needs to hire a football guy to be GM. Loomis is in the wrong job.

Vrillon82 · 10-29-2012, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by CharityMike

To me, your last sentence is the real question. I mentioned it before in another thread. There was a VERY noticeable difference when Hicks and Galette rotated in for Ellis and Smith. Why Hicks is not starting is mind boggling.

IMO there is a lot of dead weight on the D that just needs to go. Shanle, Jenkins, Ellis, Tom Johnson, Herring..about all I can think of off top my head.

Jenkins has to be the biggest disappointment. The one big play a year that he contributes does not out way his consistent inability to tackle or his below average cover skills. Harper covers better than he does and thats a statement I never thought could be possible.

Harper is thriving off Spags defense which is mind boggling to me.

What really burns my ass though is how I see 3-4 players on defense in the general area where the only WR is, the WR catches the ball, he catches it because the 3-4 players on defense in that area really doing nothing but looking at whats in front of them, is about 10 yards off the WR. Looks to me like most of the secondary is reading the QB and paying more attention to him than they are to the WR/TEs out there, RBs to. You see this wide open guy, but you see no real urgency for the defenders to close the gap with them, they stay so far back.........why kind of defense is this? Beats the hell out of me.

Thats been a consistent on going theme all season in these games. The defense looks so damn confused its beyond pathetic.

Nemesis · 10-29-2012, 02:34 AM

I said this after like the second year of this tenure. Sure Loomis has lucked out with nice OL picks colston, and Brees. Our Ill not name our MLB that was rejected by the Jets and seems to have been replaced at the moment . Thing is, we had absolutely nothing to lose with Brees and Vilma. Amirite? Would my taking a chance with Brees after Payton as my HC wasnt fond at all with AB seem like genius? Brees was like the only vet with semi- credentials available.

I didnt want Bush and its well documented. I ranted and raved about our OL. I was bitter about refusing the deal the jets offered us with those picks that garnered Mangold and D Brick. I figured it was best to start with an OL instead of investing all into Bush. bush couldnt run behind our OL at its current state.

What was my point? Why am I here? Who are you people?

Halo · 10-29-2012, 03:08 AM

I disagree with completely calling Loomis and bean counter and blaming all this on him.

Loomis and Sean Payton make the personnel decisions. They both helped build one of the best most BALL HOG defenses in the history of the the NFL that marched us to the Superbowl.

That defense has been dismantled piece by piece over 2 seasons. Don't believe me, compare rosters from 2009 and 2012. You'll also find several of our former players starting elsewhere.

Where I disapprove with on Loomis and Payton is I completely disagreed with the Ingram pick. I like Ingram but we needed those picks to further re-stock this defense. And that's where Loomis needs to step up - finding balance in personnel decisions and not allowing Sean Payton to have ONLY offensive players to his hearts content. The Saints are STILL over stocked in offensive talent and runningbacks.

So now we're playing payers on defense that were backups, some not with the team, some brought in from elsewhere to bring help.

Loomis and Payton DO need to rebuild this defense, but seriously our defense has been picked apart from 2009 and our adjustments and patch work has not worked out.

View Poll Results: What Is/Are the Biggest Problems With the Saints' Defense?
Lack of Talent on Defensive Line	24	39.34%
Lack of Talent at Cornerback	5	8.20%
Lack of Talent at Safety	3	4.92%
Scheme, still need time to learn	16	26.23%
Commitment to 1st Rounders, FA Contracts, Need Young Guns to Play	3	4.92%
Lack of Running Game, Puts Defense on Field to Much	10	16.39%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

10-28-2012, 10:41 PM	#51
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? We look like we are back at square one

10-29-2012, 12:18 AM	#52
OldMaid Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,910 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? I did not pick a point there to point on. The defense is so bad because they simply are not interested in trying. Lazy. Get a NFL pay and call it a day. The youth and talent is there. Attitude is why bother. Also, there is no boss. No coach. No motivation. No self-motivation. No motivation and fear from the boss, Sean Payton. No reason. Just get out there and run a bit. Reach out a had to tackle the opponent.

10-29-2012, 12:24 AM	#53
onebyone 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 431	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? I don't know why their defense is so bad. It is so bad it just doesn't make any sense. It seems like professional players could accidentally do better.
onebyone 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 431

10-29-2012, 12:47 AM	#54
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? Heads MUST roll Monday morning... Any reason for why Broderick Bunkley was inactive?!?

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10-29-2012, 01:05 AM	#55
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? cause we only have like 5 at most talented players on d?

10-29-2012, 02:07 AM	#56
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? Mickey Loomis is the GM of the team. The GM's job is not only to be an accountant, but, also the GM's job is to be the football brains and talent eval brains. Your GM is supposed to build your roster. The Falcons brought Dmitroff in as GM back in 2007. His job was NOT to be "just and accountant" like Loomis, but also to be the talent evaluator. Point is this: If Benson has Loomis as GM ONLY to be a bean counter, then, the Front Office is built wrong and Loomis has the wrong job. The GM needs to be a FOOTBALL MAN who knows player personnel and knows how to build a roster. Since LOOMIS is NOT a football man, he should NOT be GM. The Saints have a habit of putting non football people in important football jobs. I remember when the Saints hired an ex astronaut to be GM back in the 60s. Nemesis and jeanpierre like this.
	GO SAINTS GO!! GO SAINTS GO!! GO SAINTS GO!! -- Al Hirt on the Tulane Stadium PA system loudly cheering for our beloved New Orleans Saints

10-29-2012, 02:10 AM	#57
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? Originally Posted by jeanpierre This guy hangs it on defensive talent evaluation, which is ultimately on Loomis... Saints Nation: Saints Problems on Defense Due to Poor Talent Evaluation? \| September Originally Posted by Budsdrinker I don't think there is anything wrong with the scouting department. It's a big difference from college ball to NFL and majority of our picks had great college careers that haven't translated to great NFL beginnings. Ellis was good at USC, Jenkins was good at OSU. How does the scouting department know they will not succeed? Everybody on this board thought Glenn Dorsey was a future Hall of Famer, what has he done? No one knows how the transition from college to the NFL will affect players until after they are in the league. Can't blame that on the scouts. Anyone remember Brian Bosworth, the second coming of Dick Butkus? How did that work out. Look, we have rookies starting that were only suppose to be rotating in and out and vets trying to learn a new scheme. I know everyone is tired of hearing about new scheme but when you have been playing one way for 3 years then have to change to another way it takes time to trust it. You see a guy that runs across in front of you and your instinct wants you to follow him but the scheme says turn him loose to the next guy, it's hard to do when it's the first year you play that type of system. I do agree we need to see more Hicks and Gallette and Wilson but you also have to take in consideration their styles of play. They are speed guys and sometimes their speed can't take them out of position on running plays so that is why we only see them mostly on known passing situations. We will get better because quite frankly we can't get any worst but it will take time for our guys to trust the scheme and not react to what they see all the time. Who IS the "scouting department" ? What are their names ? Loomis is the GM. In your model NFL front office, your GM is you football player personnel guru who knows how to build a roster. If the Saints roster sucks on D (and it does suck) that means that the FO is not getting the job done. That means LOOMIS is not getting the job done. People say "well Loomis is not a football guy, he's just an accountant". Well, Benson needs to hire a football guy to be GM. Loomis is in the wrong job.

10-29-2012, 02:17 AM	#58
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? Originally Posted by CharityMike To me, your last sentence is the real question. I mentioned it before in another thread. There was a VERY noticeable difference when Hicks and Galette rotated in for Ellis and Smith. Why Hicks is not starting is mind boggling. IMO there is a lot of dead weight on the D that just needs to go. Shanle, Jenkins, Ellis, Tom Johnson, Herring..about all I can think of off top my head. Jenkins has to be the biggest disappointment. The one big play a year that he contributes does not out way his consistent inability to tackle or his below average cover skills. Harper covers better than he does and thats a statement I never thought could be possible. Harper is thriving off Spags defense which is mind boggling to me. What really burns my ass though is how I see 3-4 players on defense in the general area where the only WR is, the WR catches the ball, he catches it because the 3-4 players on defense in that area really doing nothing but looking at whats in front of them, is about 10 yards off the WR. Looks to me like most of the secondary is reading the QB and paying more attention to him than they are to the WR/TEs out there, RBs to. You see this wide open guy, but you see no real urgency for the defenders to close the gap with them, they stay so far back.........why kind of defense is this? Beats the hell out of me. Thats been a consistent on going theme all season in these games. The defense looks so damn confused its beyond pathetic.
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127

10-29-2012, 02:34 AM	#59
Nemesis VIP~~Drunken Clam Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Quahog Posts: 422	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? I said this after like the second year of this tenure. Sure Loomis has lucked out with nice OL picks colston, and Brees. Our Ill not name our MLB that was rejected by the Jets and seems to have been replaced at the moment . Thing is, we had absolutely nothing to lose with Brees and Vilma. Amirite? Would my taking a chance with Brees after Payton as my HC wasnt fond at all with AB seem like genius? Brees was like the only vet with semi- credentials available. I didnt want Bush and its well documented. I ranted and raved about our OL. I was bitter about refusing the deal the jets offered us with those picks that garnered Mangold and D Brick. I figured it was best to start with an OL instead of investing all into Bush. bush couldnt run behind our OL at its current state. What was my point? Why am I here? Who are you people?
	Imitating my game is the most sincere form of flattery.

10-29-2012, 03:08 AM	#60
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,718 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Why Is the Defense So Bad? I disagree with completely calling Loomis and bean counter and blaming all this on him. Loomis and Sean Payton make the personnel decisions. They both helped build one of the best most BALL HOG defenses in the history of the the NFL that marched us to the Superbowl. That defense has been dismantled piece by piece over 2 seasons. Don't believe me, compare rosters from 2009 and 2012. You'll also find several of our former players starting elsewhere. Where I disapprove with on Loomis and Payton is I completely disagreed with the Ingram pick. I like Ingram but we needed those picks to further re-stock this defense. And that's where Loomis needs to step up - finding balance in personnel decisions and not allowing Sean Payton to have ONLY offensive players to his hearts content. The Saints are STILL over stocked in offensive talent and runningbacks. So now we're playing payers on defense that were backups, some not with the team, some brought in from elsewhere to bring help. Loomis and Payton DO need to rebuild this defense, but seriously our defense has been picked apart from 2009 and our adjustments and patch work has not worked out. SaintsBro likes this.
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