Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation?

Danno · 02-20-2013, 01:12 PM

So I'll put down Saintfan, Oak and QBREES on record claiming that draft success doesn't matter.

This will be a lot of fun for the next several weeks.

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

So I'll put down Saintfan, Oak and QBREES on record claiming that draft success doesn't matter.

This will be a lot of fun for the next several weeks.

I didn't say draft success doesn't matter. I said getting it right is a crap shoot. It is a crap shoot. I will say a successful draft does not a winner make. It's part of the puzzle - nothing more and nothing less.

And it's a crap shoot.

Danno · 02-20-2013, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I didn't say draft success doesn't matter. I said getting it right is a crap shoot. It is a crap shoot. I will say a successful draft does not a winner make. It's part of the puzzle - nothing more and nothing less.

And it's a crap shoot.

I disagree so completely it astounds me. I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others. Its why teams invest so much money in scouting. I'm dumbfounded someone would think its the equivalent of drawing names out of a hat.

If it was a crap shoot no team would invest money on scouting, or going to the combine or going to pro-days.

To say its all just a crap shoot is the epitome of shortsightedness.

I'm beginning to think we have the most uninformed fans in the league.

saintfan · 02-20-2013, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I disagree so completely it astounds me. I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others. Its why teams invest so much money in scouting. I'm dumbfounded someone would think its the equivalent of drawing names out of a hat.

If it was a crap shoot no team would invest money on scouting, or going to the combine or going to pro-days.

To say its all just a crap shoot is the epitome of shortsightedness.

I'm beginning to think we have the most uninformed fans in the league.

Dude. Read my initial post. I concede that some teams are better than others. That's my blackjack analogy. Certainly some blackjack players are better than others and are therefore less likely to get taken to the bank. That doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble.

In spite of all the money and effort that goes into it, it's still a gamble. It always has been and it always will be, because all the measurables do not equate to success for a given player. There are a gazillion examples of this.

You may call me uninformed. I'm quite well informed. I'm also a realist. If the performance of a player were so easily predictable, we'd see far fewer busts. But we don't. It happens every year, and even the best and most well-respected people who are completely up to speed on every player's measurables will disagree on draft day.

Maybe you prefer the term "calculated gamble"? Regardless is it far Far FAR from anything that remotely resembles an exact science. It's - A - Crap - Shoot. Period.

Or maybe you can tell me who's the best at it and why? I'm definitely interested...

Danno · 02-20-2013, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Dude. Read my initial post. I concede that some teams are better than others. That's my blackjack analogy. Certainly some blackjack players are better than others and are therefore less likely to get taken to the bank. That doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble.

In spite of all the money and effort that goes into it, it's still a gamble. It always has been and it always will be, because all the measurables do not equate to success for a given player. There are a gazillion examples of this.

You may call me uninformed. I'm quite well informed. I'm also a realist. If the performance of a player were so easily predictable, we'd see far fewer busts. But we don't. It happens every year, and even the best and most well-respected people who are completely up to speed on every player's measurables will disagree on draft day.

Maybe you prefer the term "calculated gamble"? Regardless is it far Far FAR from anything that remotely resembles an exact science. It's - A - Crap - Shoot. Period.

Or maybe you can tell me who's the best at it and why? I'm definitely interested...

I would assume the best at it are the ones that year in and year out hit on their picks. And I'd guess their scouts are rewarded accordingly

I'd also imagine that the ones who suck at it year in and year out don't last long in this league.

My point was other than 2006, it appears we suck at it more than most teams. I only did one comparison with Atlanta and they have had 3 times the success we've had drafting talent.

I'd imagine that having over 1/2 your draft picks fail is a decent indicator that you suck at drafting, especially compared to your rival that has a roster full of successful draftees. The comparison between the F'cons draft success and ours isn't even close. In fact its downright embarrassing.

Swap Ryan and Brees and we're a perinneal 7 win team and they're bumping 13 to 14 wins every year with 3 or 4 championships under their belt.

alleycat_126 · 02-20-2013, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others.

I'd love to know which teams draft better than everybody else. Cause this team must be the 20 time SB champs..... The team putting all this NFL talent on the field at seven picks per season should never get beat!!!!!

jeanpierre · 02-20-2013, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

I'd love to know which teams draft better than everybody else. Cause this team must be the 20 time SB champs..... The team putting all this NFL talent on the field at seven picks per season should never get beat!!!!!

Alley, I'd put Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NY Giants, San Fran as teams that draft much better than others...

papz · 02-20-2013, 01:28 PM

You know what would be pretty cool... if team revealed their draft boards afterwards. Don't really care to see the entire thing... just at that curent pick, give us the names of the 3 players they were seriously considering at the time. Would to fun to speculate what could have been or whether or not we completely dropped the ball at the time.

Pipe dream... I know.

RaginCajun83 · 02-20-2013, 01:36 PM

Saints are an offensive football team so of course the scouts would find more talent on that side of the ball and not so much on defense. Look at the Steelers, they have hit on a bunch of defensive players but have struck out on offensive and offensive linemen like its going out of style

RaginCajun83 · 02-20-2013, 01:39 PM

And who ever thinks that the draft is a crap shoot needs to get their head examined. There's a reason why some teams pick in the top 5-10 year after year, they can't scout and either reach or miss on players that were "sure" things

02-20-2013, 01:12 PM	#1
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,759	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? So I'll put down Saintfan, Oak and QBREES on record claiming that draft success doesn't matter. This will be a lot of fun for the next several weeks.

02-20-2013, 01:27 PM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Danno So I'll put down Saintfan, Oak and QBREES on record claiming that draft success doesn't matter. This will be a lot of fun for the next several weeks. I didn't say draft success doesn't matter. I said getting it right is a crap shoot. It is a crap shoot. I will say a successful draft does not a winner make. It's part of the puzzle - nothing more and nothing less. And it's a crap shoot.

02-20-2013, 01:33 PM	#3
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,759	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by saintfan I didn't say draft success doesn't matter. I said getting it right is a crap shoot. It is a crap shoot. I will say a successful draft does not a winner make. It's part of the puzzle - nothing more and nothing less. And it's a crap shoot. I disagree so completely it astounds me. I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others. Its why teams invest so much money in scouting. I'm dumbfounded someone would think its the equivalent of drawing names out of a hat. If it was a crap shoot no team would invest money on scouting, or going to the combine or going to pro-days. To say its all just a crap shoot is the epitome of shortsightedness. I'm beginning to think we have the most uninformed fans in the league.

02-20-2013, 02:14 PM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Danno I disagree so completely it astounds me. I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others. Its why teams invest so much money in scouting. I'm dumbfounded someone would think its the equivalent of drawing names out of a hat. If it was a crap shoot no team would invest money on scouting, or going to the combine or going to pro-days. To say its all just a crap shoot is the epitome of shortsightedness. I'm beginning to think we have the most uninformed fans in the league. Dude. Read my initial post. I concede that some teams are better than others. That's my blackjack analogy. Certainly some blackjack players are better than others and are therefore less likely to get taken to the bank. That doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble. In spite of all the money and effort that goes into it, it's still a gamble. It always has been and it always will be, because all the measurables do not equate to success for a given player. There are a gazillion examples of this. You may call me uninformed. I'm quite well informed. I'm also a realist. If the performance of a player were so easily predictable, we'd see far fewer busts. But we don't. It happens every year, and even the best and most well-respected people who are completely up to speed on every player's measurables will disagree on draft day. Maybe you prefer the term "calculated gamble"? Regardless is it far Far FAR from anything that remotely resembles an exact science. It's - A - Crap - Shoot. Period. Or maybe you can tell me who's the best at it and why? I'm definitely interested...
	C'mon Man...

02-20-2013, 02:24 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,759	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by saintfan Dude. Read my initial post. I concede that some teams are better than others. That's my blackjack analogy. Certainly some blackjack players are better than others and are therefore less likely to get taken to the bank. That doesn't change the fact that it's still a gamble. In spite of all the money and effort that goes into it, it's still a gamble. It always has been and it always will be, because all the measurables do not equate to success for a given player. There are a gazillion examples of this. You may call me uninformed. I'm quite well informed. I'm also a realist. If the performance of a player were so easily predictable, we'd see far fewer busts. But we don't. It happens every year, and even the best and most well-respected people who are completely up to speed on every player's measurables will disagree on draft day. Maybe you prefer the term "calculated gamble"? Regardless is it far Far FAR from anything that remotely resembles an exact science. It's - A - Crap - Shoot. Period. Or maybe you can tell me who's the best at it and why? I'm definitely interested... I would assume the best at it are the ones that year in and year out hit on their picks. And I'd guess their scouts are rewarded accordingly I'd also imagine that the ones who suck at it year in and year out don't last long in this league. My point was other than 2006, it appears we suck at it more than most teams. I only did one comparison with Atlanta and they have had 3 times the success we've had drafting talent. I'd imagine that having over 1/2 your draft picks fail is a decent indicator that you suck at drafting, especially compared to your rival that has a roster full of successful draftees. The comparison between the F'cons draft success and ours isn't even close. In fact its downright embarrassing. Swap Ryan and Brees and we're a perinneal 7 win team and they're bumping 13 to 14 wins every year with 3 or 4 championships under their belt.

02-20-2013, 07:16 PM	#6
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by Danno I think there definitely are certain teams and certain scouts that are better at spotting and drafting talent than others. I'd love to know which teams draft better than everybody else. Cause this team must be the 20 time SB champs..... The team putting all this NFL talent on the field at seven picks per season should never get beat!!!!!

02-20-2013, 08:17 PM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Originally Posted by alleycat_126 I'd love to know which teams draft better than everybody else. Cause this team must be the 20 time SB champs..... The team putting all this NFL talent on the field at seven picks per season should never get beat!!!!! Alley, I'd put Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NY Giants, San Fran as teams that draft much better than others...

02-20-2013, 01:28 PM	#8
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,801	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? You know what would be pretty cool... if team revealed their draft boards afterwards. Don't really care to see the entire thing... just at that curent pick, give us the names of the 3 players they were seriously considering at the time. Would to fun to speculate what could have been or whether or not we completely dropped the ball at the time. Pipe dream... I know.

02-20-2013, 01:36 PM	#9
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? Saints are an offensive football team so of course the scouts would find more talent on that side of the ball and not so much on defense. Look at the Steelers, they have hit on a bunch of defensive players but have struck out on offensive and offensive linemen like its going out of style

02-20-2013, 01:39 PM	#10
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Are Loomis /Payton as good as their draft reputation? And who ever thinks that the draft is a crap shoot needs to get their head examined. There's a reason why some teams pick in the top 5-10 year after year, they can't scout and either reach or miss on players that were "sure" things Danno likes this.

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