AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it

SaintsBro · 10-01-2013, 05:22 PM

I found myself thinking last night about the Halloween night game against the Steelers in 2010, which at that time was one of the best defenses in the league (I believe at that moment they actually were #1) and were considered to be on a statistical par with some of the great historical defenses of the modern era. Incredibly stout against the run. That game had the intensity of a playoff game or a Super Bowl. The Steelers did actually wind up in the Super Bowl that year.

The Saints had 30 yards rushing that night, on 21 attempts, 1.8 per carry. And the Saints won the game pretty handily, 20-10.

neugey · 10-01-2013, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

I just like the potential I see in KR. The way he runs, the authority. He has an upside. I think we have already seen MI ceiling. We know what we have in MI, he has had 3 years to get it done. KR deserves a chance now.

KR looked a lot more shifty and slippery running forward than MI. A lot.

rezburna · 10-01-2013, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Im pretty sure if they thought that would work they would try it more.

Then you know not the stubbornness of a head coach.

blackangold · 10-01-2013, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by xan

Those arguing that MI would have done worse than KR would have to have both playing in the same game running the same play in the same circumstances to even have a hope of arguing intellectual honesty in their assertion.

Just admit you're an irrational hater and stop the pretense that your conclusion is based on fact.

your right...

By your logic I couldn't compare Adrian Peterson to Mark Ingram because the circumstances are completely different. Hell, with that logic we shouldn't compare anyone ever until they have the same players and coaches surrounding them huh?

But wait, don't Ingram and Robinson have the same coaching staff and same O-lines? Seems pretty valid to compare the two to me. Every one knew Robinson was getting the ball every time he did, yet he averages 4.7 YPC while Ingram averages 1.7YPC.... logic 2 tuff

However I will say the Offensive line is awful at run blocking. We could have Peterson but instead of being a 2000 yard RB he would only be a 1000 yard RB behind that line. Until I see the running game improve this team is no better than the 2010 saints.

blackangold · 10-01-2013, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

In the first half he ran for +4, -3, +1 so my math says 3 carries for 2 yards.
He didn't run again until towards the end of the 3rd quarter.
His big runs came in the 4th quarter. His runs went like this.
+4,-3,+1,+6,-1,+11,+10,+6,+2,+1,-5,+5.
Look, I don't love Ingram more than any other RB that we have but I think most everyone is being unfair to him. The last 2 weeks have shown that no one on this team can run effectively behind our OL in the first half. We have to force them to back off the line defending the pass to open up the run game right now and we need to fix that.

The odd assessment here is they aren't backing off the run game at that point. When we have run the ball effectively is toward the end of the game when we are winning by multiple scores and every one knows we are going to run. The teams haven't been defending the pass during our best runs of the season, rather they have stacked the box because we are coming out in run heavy formations and trying to drain the clock. Yet when we do this and get nothing (1.7 YPC) with Ingram people proclaim the play calling was too predictable, well what about when Robinson has got the carries? All of Robinson's carries have been predictable and ran out of heavy sets.

rezburna · 10-01-2013, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

your right...

By your logic I couldn't compare Adrian Peterson to Mark Ingram because the circumstances are completely different. Hell, with that logic we shouldn't compare anyone ever until they have the same players and coaches surrounding them huh?

But wait, don't Ingram and Robinson have the same coaching staff and same O-lines? Seems pretty valid to compare the two to me. Every one knew Robinson was getting the ball every time he did, yet he averages 4.7 YPC while Ingram averages 1.7YPC.... logic 2 tuff

However I will say the Offensive line is awful at run blocking. We could have Peterson but instead of being a 2000 yard RB he would only be a 1000 yard RB behind that line. Until I see the running game improve this team is no better than the 2010 saints.

2010 Saints had no defense....Packers had no running game when they won it all.....you don't have to run to win. You have to score and play defense. We do that. And we run well in the 4th quarter of every game.

TheOak · 10-01-2013, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by ikecomp

You're right. Tampa is an excellent example. Drew and our offense looked horrible during that game. We beat a bad team in a hard fought division game. The question is, do you think you can have long-term success playing that way against an actual playoff time. IMHO, I don't think so.

2012 Super Bowl XLVI Patriots vs Giants
Giants win the Super Bowl ave rushing per game 89.2 (32nd in the League)

The Giants play in Met Life Stadium... Think they get a little bad weather up there?

Patriots play in Gillette Stadium.... Any bad weather up there?

The Patriots had the 20th ranked rushing game.

I'll bet you this isn't in Oakland.

So.... No a running game is not a requirement for getting to and winning a SB with bad weather.

I know so.

blackangold · 10-01-2013, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

2010 Saints had no defense....Packers had no running game when they won it all.....you don't have to run to win. You have to score and play defense. We do that. And we run well in the 4th quarter of every game.

2010 saints had the 4th ranked D....FORTH RANKED D... sound familiar?

This team is exactly like the 2010 team until they get a running game going.

New Orleans Saints 2010 Season Defensive Statistics | www.NOSaintsHistory.com

homerj07 · 10-01-2013, 07:38 PM

I don't know. I really think the loss of Kromer is rearing its ugly head.

rezburna · 10-01-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

2010 saints had the 4th ranked D....FORTH RANKED D... sound familiar?

This team is exactly like the 2010 team until they get a running game going.

New Orleans Saints 2010 Season Defensive Statistics | www.NOSaintsHistory.com

NFL Stats: by Team Category

No we didn't. And I suppose you don't remember Marshawn Lynch.

10-01-2013, 05:22 PM	#51
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it I found myself thinking last night about the Halloween night game against the Steelers in 2010, which at that time was one of the best defenses in the league (I believe at that moment they actually were #1) and were considered to be on a statistical par with some of the great historical defenses of the modern era. Incredibly stout against the run. That game had the intensity of a playoff game or a Super Bowl. The Steelers did actually wind up in the Super Bowl that year. The Saints had 30 yards rushing that night, on 21 attempts, 1.8 per carry. And the Saints won the game pretty handily, 20-10.

10-01-2013, 05:24 PM	#52
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by The Dude I just like the potential I see in KR. The way he runs, the authority. He has an upside. I think we have already seen MI ceiling. We know what we have in MI, he has had 3 years to get it done. KR deserves a chance now. KR looked a lot more shifty and slippery running forward than MI. A lot.

10-01-2013, 05:48 PM	#53
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by The Dude Im pretty sure if they thought that would work they would try it more. Then you know not the stubbornness of a head coach.

10-01-2013, 06:14 PM	#54
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by xan Those arguing that MI would have done worse than KR would have to have both playing in the same game running the same play in the same circumstances to even have a hope of arguing intellectual honesty in their assertion. Just admit you're an irrational hater and stop the pretense that your conclusion is based on fact. your right... By your logic I couldn't compare Adrian Peterson to Mark Ingram because the circumstances are completely different. Hell, with that logic we shouldn't compare anyone ever until they have the same players and coaches surrounding them huh? But wait, don't Ingram and Robinson have the same coaching staff and same O-lines? Seems pretty valid to compare the two to me. Every one knew Robinson was getting the ball every time he did, yet he averages 4.7 YPC while Ingram averages 1.7YPC.... logic 2 tuff However I will say the Offensive line is awful at run blocking. We could have Peterson but instead of being a 2000 yard RB he would only be a 1000 yard RB behind that line. Until I see the running game improve this team is no better than the 2010 saints.

10-01-2013, 06:21 PM	#55
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by Budsdrinker In the first half he ran for +4, -3, +1 so my math says 3 carries for 2 yards. He didn't run again until towards the end of the 3rd quarter. His big runs came in the 4th quarter. His runs went like this. +4,-3,+1,+6,-1,+11,+10,+6,+2,+1,-5,+5. Look, I don't love Ingram more than any other RB that we have but I think most everyone is being unfair to him. The last 2 weeks have shown that no one on this team can run effectively behind our OL in the first half. We have to force them to back off the line defending the pass to open up the run game right now and we need to fix that. The odd assessment here is they aren't backing off the run game at that point. When we have run the ball effectively is toward the end of the game when we are winning by multiple scores and every one knows we are going to run. The teams haven't been defending the pass during our best runs of the season, rather they have stacked the box because we are coming out in run heavy formations and trying to drain the clock. Yet when we do this and get nothing (1.7 YPC) with Ingram people proclaim the play calling was too predictable, well what about when Robinson has got the carries? All of Robinson's carries have been predictable and ran out of heavy sets.

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10-01-2013, 06:23 PM	#56
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by blackangold your right... By your logic I couldn't compare Adrian Peterson to Mark Ingram because the circumstances are completely different. Hell, with that logic we shouldn't compare anyone ever until they have the same players and coaches surrounding them huh? But wait, don't Ingram and Robinson have the same coaching staff and same O-lines? Seems pretty valid to compare the two to me. Every one knew Robinson was getting the ball every time he did, yet he averages 4.7 YPC while Ingram averages 1.7YPC.... logic 2 tuff However I will say the Offensive line is awful at run blocking. We could have Peterson but instead of being a 2000 yard RB he would only be a 1000 yard RB behind that line. Until I see the running game improve this team is no better than the 2010 saints. 2010 Saints had no defense....Packers had no running game when they won it all.....you don't have to run to win. You have to score and play defense. We do that. And we run well in the 4th quarter of every game.

10-01-2013, 06:27 PM	#57
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Originally Posted by ikecomp You're right. Tampa is an excellent example. Drew and our offense looked horrible during that game. We beat a bad team in a hard fought division game. The question is, do you think you can have long-term success playing that way against an actual playoff time. IMHO, I don't think so. 2012 Super Bowl XLVI Patriots vs Giants Giants win the Super Bowl ave rushing per game 89.2 (32nd in the League) The Giants play in Met Life Stadium... Think they get a little bad weather up there? Patriots play in Gillette Stadium.... Any bad weather up there? The Patriots had the 20th ranked rushing game. I'll bet you this isn't in Oakland. So.... No a running game is not a requirement for getting to and winning a SB with bad weather. I know so.

10-01-2013, 06:29 PM	#58
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by rezburna 2010 Saints had no defense....Packers had no running game when they won it all.....you don't have to run to win. You have to score and play defense. We do that. And we run well in the 4th quarter of every game. 2010 saints had the 4th ranked D....FORTH RANKED D... sound familiar? This team is exactly like the 2010 team until they get a running game going. New Orleans Saints 2010 Season Defensive Statistics \| www.NOSaintsHistory.com

10-01-2013, 07:38 PM	#59
homerj07 In Doh We Trust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7,027 Blog Entries: 16	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it I don't know. I really think the loss of Kromer is rearing its ugly head. RockyMountainSaint and WHODATINCA like this.

10-01-2013, 07:54 PM	#60
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: AWESOME WIN....but somebody has to say it Originally Posted by blackangold 2010 saints had the 4th ranked D....FORTH RANKED D... sound familiar? This team is exactly like the 2010 team until they get a running game going. New Orleans Saints 2010 Season Defensive Statistics \| www.NOSaintsHistory.com NFL Stats: by Team Category No we didn't. And I suppose you don't remember Marshawn Lynch.

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