I have a riddle for you

hagan714 · 11-06-2013, 08:01 AM

either way the saints need to address the OL. we have taking some gambles over the years and well they have not paid off. Drew is heading to a season being sacked more than ever before. there is an issue and it has to be addressed for the 2014 season. till then we get to see how good the coaching is. they need to control the bleeding and figure out what to do to stop it after. i am afraid it will be next year when we can stop it so lets be happy if we can get this under control.

Danno · 11-06-2013, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

either way the saints need to address the OL. we have taking some gambles over the years and well they have not paid off. Drew is heading to a season being sacked more than ever before. there is an issue and it has to be addressed for the 2014 season. till then we get to see how good the coaching is. they need to control the bleeding and figure out what to do to stop it after. i am afraid it will be next year when we can stop it so lets be happy if we can get this under control.

I think it should also be noted that our O-line isn't terrible, we're just used to having a top 5 line.

I think we're probably upper third in pass pro and bottom third in run blocking.

But as you said, our bread and butter is Drew Brees. Giving him the assets he needs trumps every other need on the field. Right now it looks like a couple O-linemen and a top flight WR.

I look for major free-agency moves for both those positions this off-season.

hagan714 · 11-06-2013, 08:14 AM

no they are not all bad there are some pieces to keep. though strief is getting up there and we have seen the back up already and well they leave a lot to be desired. then i look at at the ps and scratch my head.

i understand wanting offensive toys but i think we have gone over board in that area. find some gems to develop on the OL and DL. stop signing WR and freaking CB. glamor only goes far you must win in the trenches first.

Alex Mack OC CLE is my deam signing at this point.

check back later when i get my head out of the clouds

in the draft i really like

Morgan Moses, ROT/OG Virginia he is perfect for the saints at RT. great run blocker and pass blocking has gotten really good since he lost 30+ pounds and moved to LOT. plus the big guy can move, that is all he does at Virigina. screens and miss direction play. big strong and athletic. i would not be surprised that at the combine his stock sky rockets. from the silly 4/5 ranking he has now to a 2/3.

Budsdrinker · 11-06-2013, 08:25 AM

Look, all teams get stuffed on running plays during games. Even Ivory was stuffed a couple of times for 0 or -yards. The difference is they continue to try and run the ball. As pass happy as Drew and Payton are, all they need is one negative play to give them a reason to abandon the run and they do it.
We have to run the ball 25 times a game period to have some sort of balance if not defenses will tee off on Brees and hit him a few times every game. Now this week against Homo and the girls it's likely to be a shootout with both teams abandoning the run early.

NonieT · 11-06-2013, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

If I throw the phrases: "new coach", "new scheme", "wrong personnel", "staying with it for too long"...

Which Saints group am I talking about, the 2012 defense or the 2013 offensive line?

Answer ~ Both!

The thread about "what did greenbay do..." made me think about something.

When you look up zone blocking on the internet the first thing it says is "In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen." Then I look at Brown and both knees in braces, Strieff, DLP, Evans hamstring and back slow him down... I do not see fleet-footed anywhere in that group.

Our offensive line is suffering from the same exact thing our defense suffered from last year. Personnel and scheme do not match.

Ive seen this same question asked a whole lot also "how can our offensive line get so bad in one year"? Easy.... Implement a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel.

I will narrow it a little further. What aspect does our offensive line suffer the most in? Run Blocking. Zone blocking is a run blocking scheme and not a pass blocking scheme... We are still ok at pass blocking when we are not injured.

We are not built like this describes:
Zone blocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Therefore we can not do what this describes:
Football 201: Understanding the Zone Blocking Scheme - Behind the Steel Curtain

The only question that remains for me: How long will we continue to try and do what we are not built to do?

If we can figure this out, and we're just fans, why can't those people on Airline Dr, figure it out. You would think they would have already known before zone blocking was implemented. The Saints DO NOT have the personnel for a zone blocking scheme.

TheOak · 11-06-2013, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by NonieT

If we can figure this out, and we're just fans, why can't those people on Airline Dr, figure it out. You would think they would have already known before zone blocking was implemented. The Saints DO NOT have the personnel for a zone blocking scheme.

Finally knowing a choice was wrong, and getting past the "owning" roadblock to change it isn't always a hurdle humans can easily overcome.

They know it, but have they admitted it yet.

It's also a dynamic situation. You see something isn't working but with the injuries we have had in oline it makes the root cause sort of gray.

ProMallNinja · 11-06-2013, 12:14 PM

We have not abandoned last year's gap scheme. We only implemented "a little more zone blocking" this year. That's per Coach Payton. Whatever it actually means could be something else, but to call going back to the original scheme a "midseason change" is misleading. We still use every single thing about last season's scheme. We just use a little more "zone-blocking" this year. To go back to more of last season's style of running is simply a matter of calling those plays more. It's a change of coaching philosophy rather than a player scheme change.

Rugby Saint II · 11-06-2013, 06:10 PM

I believe that the new O-line coach implemented the zone scheme. Bad mistake for a first year..........we need more gap blocking........all the freakin' time!

11-06-2013, 08:01 AM	#1
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: I have a riddle for you either way the saints need to address the OL. we have taking some gambles over the years and well they have not paid off. Drew is heading to a season being sacked more than ever before. there is an issue and it has to be addressed for the 2014 season. till then we get to see how good the coaching is. they need to control the bleeding and figure out what to do to stop it after. i am afraid it will be next year when we can stop it so lets be happy if we can get this under control. Danno likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

11-06-2013, 08:07 AM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by hagan714 either way the saints need to address the OL. we have taking some gambles over the years and well they have not paid off. Drew is heading to a season being sacked more than ever before. there is an issue and it has to be addressed for the 2014 season. till then we get to see how good the coaching is. they need to control the bleeding and figure out what to do to stop it after. i am afraid it will be next year when we can stop it so lets be happy if we can get this under control. I think it should also be noted that our O-line isn't terrible, we're just used to having a top 5 line. I think we're probably upper third in pass pro and bottom third in run blocking. But as you said, our bread and butter is Drew Brees. Giving him the assets he needs trumps every other need on the field. Right now it looks like a couple O-linemen and a top flight WR. I look for major free-agency moves for both those positions this off-season. hagan714 and Mr.Riaton like this.

11-06-2013, 08:14 AM	#3
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: I have a riddle for you no they are not all bad there are some pieces to keep. though strief is getting up there and we have seen the back up already and well they leave a lot to be desired. then i look at at the ps and scratch my head. i understand wanting offensive toys but i think we have gone over board in that area. find some gems to develop on the OL and DL. stop signing WR and freaking CB. glamor only goes far you must win in the trenches first. Alex Mack OC CLE is my deam signing at this point. check back later when i get my head out of the clouds in the draft i really like Morgan Moses, ROT/OG Virginia he is perfect for the saints at RT. great run blocker and pass blocking has gotten really good since he lost 30+ pounds and moved to LOT. plus the big guy can move, that is all he does at Virigina. screens and miss direction play. big strong and athletic. i would not be surprised that at the combine his stock sky rockets. from the silly 4/5 ranking he has now to a 2/3.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 11-06-2013 at 08:33 AM..

11-06-2013, 08:25 AM	#4
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: I have a riddle for you Look, all teams get stuffed on running plays during games. Even Ivory was stuffed a couple of times for 0 or -yards. The difference is they continue to try and run the ball. As pass happy as Drew and Payton are, all they need is one negative play to give them a reason to abandon the run and they do it. We have to run the ball 25 times a game period to have some sort of balance if not defenses will tee off on Brees and hit him a few times every game. Now this week against Homo and the girls it's likely to be a shootout with both teams abandoning the run early.

11-06-2013, 08:44 AM	#5
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by TheOak If I throw the phrases: "new coach", "new scheme", "wrong personnel", "staying with it for too long"... Which Saints group am I talking about, the 2012 defense or the 2013 offensive line? Answer ~ Both! The thread about "what did greenbay do..." made me think about something. When you look up zone blocking on the internet the first thing it says is "In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen." Then I look at Brown and both knees in braces, Strieff, DLP, Evans hamstring and back slow him down... I do not see fleet-footed anywhere in that group. Our offensive line is suffering from the same exact thing our defense suffered from last year. Personnel and scheme do not match. Ive seen this same question asked a whole lot also "how can our offensive line get so bad in one year"? Easy.... Implement a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel. I will narrow it a little further. What aspect does our offensive line suffer the most in? Run Blocking. Zone blocking is a run blocking scheme and not a pass blocking scheme... We are still ok at pass blocking when we are not injured. We are not built like this describes: Zone blocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Therefore we can not do what this describes: Football 201: Understanding the Zone Blocking Scheme - Behind the Steel Curtain The only question that remains for me: How long will we continue to try and do what we are not built to do? If we can figure this out, and we're just fans, why can't those people on Airline Dr, figure it out. You would think they would have already known before zone blocking was implemented. The Saints DO NOT have the personnel for a zone blocking scheme. hagan714 likes this.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

11-06-2013, 09:04 AM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by NonieT If we can figure this out, and we're just fans, why can't those people on Airline Dr, figure it out. You would think they would have already known before zone blocking was implemented. The Saints DO NOT have the personnel for a zone blocking scheme. Finally knowing a choice was wrong, and getting past the "owning" roadblock to change it isn't always a hurdle humans can easily overcome. They know it, but have they admitted it yet. It's also a dynamic situation. You see something isn't working but with the injuries we have had in oline it makes the root cause sort of gray. hagan714 likes this.

11-06-2013, 12:14 PM	#7
ProMallNinja Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: MS Gulf Coast Posts: 242	Re: I have a riddle for you We have not abandoned last year's gap scheme. We only implemented "a little more zone blocking" this year. That's per Coach Payton. Whatever it actually means could be something else, but to call going back to the original scheme a "midseason change" is misleading. We still use every single thing about last season's scheme. We just use a little more "zone-blocking" this year. To go back to more of last season's style of running is simply a matter of calling those plays more. It's a change of coaching philosophy rather than a player scheme change. Danno, hagan714 and Barry from MS like this.

11-06-2013, 06:10 PM	#8
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	Re: I have a riddle for you I believe that the new O-line coach implemented the zone scheme. Bad mistake for a first year..........we need more gap blocking........all the freakin' time!

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