hagan714

thats my boy. top 64? thats a long shot. spot start only do to injuries. i love the way he has been buried in the 6th round all this time. people are noticing. i say a solid fourth rounder any thing after he has a chance of being a major draft steal.

hagan714

ok lets look at the draft from a different view point. next years cap and players that will be making a major hit on it,

The big BUCKS:
Drew Brees $18.4 million to $26.4 million ($10.3 million roster bonus)
Jairus Byrd $3.5 million to $10.3 million ($6 million roster bonus)

Serious CAP causality candidates
Linebackers
Curtis Lofton $7 million (performance and workout bonus )
David Hawthorne 4.5 million (2.5 million roster bonus)
Victor Butler is an UFA

Solution
Round 3 - Christian Jones ILB/OLB Florida ST. 6031 240 4.74
Round 4 - Max Bullough, ILB/OLB Michigan St 6034 249 4.78
Round 6 - Howard Jones, OLB/ILB, Shepherd 6025 235 4.60

Top UDFA
Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma St 6021 235 4.64

2013 DRAFT: Rufus Johnson DE/OLB Tarleton State 6052 272 4.75

UFA Patrick Robinson, Rafael Bush
one of them should be back hint hint

Round 5
Dontae Johnson, DB, NC State 6021 200 4.45

Round 5
Walt Aikens, CB, Liberty 6005 203 4.47

Top UDFA
CB Brandon Dixon (NW Missouri State) 5114 203 4.41

Mark Ingram will be UFA so

We have been down this road before

Plus you got 2 picks left round 1 and 2.


Round 1

Round 2

Round 3
Christian Jones ILB/OLB Florida ST. 6031 240 4.74
Round 4
Max Bullough, ILB/OLB Michigan St 6034 249 4.78
Round 5
Dontae Johnson, DB, NC State 6021 200 4.45
Round 5
Walt Aikens, CB, Liberty 6005 203 4.47
Round 6
Howard Jones, OLB/ILB, Shepherd 6025 235 4.60

Top UDFA
Caleb Lavey, ILB, Oklahoma St 6021 235 4.64
Brandon Dixon CB NW Missouri State 5114 203 4.41

LB corp in camp would be killer
secondary would be just as fun to watch.
results better depth and possibility to replace from the bench instead of FA. Also the special teams would get a major shot in the arm.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

TheOak

Will cost you 8m in cap space to make these guys casualties
Lofton - 5M in dead money
Hawthorne - 3m in dead money


Where do you see a 10.3m Roster bonus for Drew Brees? Drew has no roster bonus.

hagan714

oppss forgot link

Analyzing Saints' salary-cap future - New Orleans Saints Blog - ESPN

Drew Brees Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile

Jairus Byrd Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile

Curtis Lofton Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile

David Hawthorne Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile

even with the dead hit you will be making 7 million in caps space

even then who said to get rid of them? all i am doing is looking to draft down the road and what area would improve the most in this years draft.

right now we have moved around the dead money issue pretty well. we have no dead cap money so far according to the article

under neith the figures is a break down of money involved in the contracts as a whole for drew such as $22 million in incentive guarantees it is in these things that the bonus money in the contract numbers above come from. it is not all laid out so we get the full break down.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

TheOak

You said cap casualty so that's why I mentioned the dead money. Can you replace both for less than 7m or get better at those positions for less than 7m?

I fully understand the spotrac layout and numbers. There is no roster bonus. 22m in incentive guarantees is for the 6 year life span of his contract.... And it is important to note that an "incentive guarantee", is not a bonus, that money is already counted, it just becomes guaranteed after a certain date.

In 2015 Drews Contract is a 26.4m cap hit. 18.75m in Salary, 7.4m proration of his signing bonus which he has already been paid, 250k of miscellaneous bonus. What is not written is what parts become guaranteed on what date.
You can get the layout here, but notice there is no roster bonus of 10.3m. There is no reference to that anywhere I can find on the net which is why I asked where you found that number.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/pos...rew-brees-deal


We have moved zero dead money. Dead money doesn't move, I am not sure which article you are reading but spotrac shows this season we have 13.7m in dead cap space. It shows nothing for 2015 because we haven't gotten past 2014 yet.

The only way we would have ANY dead money on the 2015 books right now is if we designated any of the cut players as "post June 1st cuts", we are allowed two and what that does is spread the dead money over two seasons, 2014 and 2015.


Look for dead money on the bottom of the 2014 cap page, I attached a screen shot.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap-hit/

hagan714

That is the million dollar question my freind and the key point i was making by the solution of drafting LB this year.

better to have one year of playing audition before the asking that question when next years checks start to be written

Just another way to look at the draft.

1 3rd plus a 4th and 2 sixths are cheap money. all you need is at least 1 of four to step up. thats it. makes 2015 FA that much easier.

As for the final dollar amounts of a contract it really makes no difference how you get there when are talking Drew and Byrd next year because it is very unlikely they are going anywhere. So in reality have very little to with the point of my post. then again cut drew and you get about 12 million in cap room. so i guess that is an option

this is the numbers you need to dig into and see how this are given out over the life of the contract.

• $22 million in incentive guarantees

there in lies the difference incentive guarantees is a cutely dressed up bonus check. I use to chase the accounting down but i stopped a few years ago. nothing ever really matched up

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

TheOak

On Lofton - Curtis Lofton is your veteran Mike Line Backer, I know the "leadership" tag is used for veteran players ad nauseam, but Lofton is the leader of the defense on the field... he is the defensive QB and play caller. You may be able to bring in a rookie that can play as well as Lofton but it will take more than a season for him to get up to speed on calling the defense. That position/roll requires a veteran. I think he should be replaced due to his play, not his contract.


On the Cap and Contracts - Back when you were chasing the details there were not websites that did it for you like spotrac and overthecap. These days it is easy if you don't interchange two terms BONUS and GUARANTEED.

Bonus - A bonus is in addition to what is in the salary column. This falls into 3 categories but is captured in 2 columns on spotrac
1. S. Bonus is signing bonus- Player gets it when he signs but it is evenly distributed through out the contract for Cap Purposes.

2. (Misc. Bonus) Categories 1 and 2 all in the Misc Column , the devil is in the bullet pointed details under the table. The two categories for bonuses are LTBE (Likely To Be Earned)and NLTBE (Not Likely To Be Earned), LTBE are counted against the cap from the start. Drew Brees being the kind of guy he is will make all the work outs so that 250k is an LTBE bonus and is counted in addition to his salary.

Guaranteed - This money is included in the Salary Column number.

Lets look at 2015 - Drew Brees base Salary is $18.7m, the Team has a three day window after the waiver period begins (5 days after the Super Bowl), to release Drew. If he is not released then more than 50% of that 18.7m becomes guaranteed, meaning if he is cut 2 weeks after the Super Bowl he will still get 11m of that 18.7m salary. This is called "Incentive Guarantee" but not because it is an incentive for Drew to meet certain goals, it is an incentive for the Saints to decide with in 3 days to 1. keep Drew Brees, 2. Release Drew Brees, 3. Restructure that contract.

To your Bullet 22m - Correct, Drews contract has 22M guaranteed in the last 2 years IF he is not released by a certain date. That is not a bonus, that just means that portion of his salary is Guaranteed. Spotrac identifies both years as over 1/2 of his salary in 2015 and 2016 become guaranteed. Over 1/2 of those salaries is roughly 11m per/year x2 = 22m.

Lofton and Byrd have actual Roster Bonus meaning they get an "addition to" bonus for being on the roster, and that is reflected in their tables.
Byrd - 2015 Roster Bonus of 6.1m
Jairus Byrd Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile

Lofton - 2013-14-15 He has roster bonuses
Curtis Lofton Salary Cap, Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & News Profile


The piece of the puzzle you are missing is the restructuring of Drew Brees contract in 2015 which would free up 8m-10m each year with out losing your QB.

How do I think this will play out in 2015 and 2016? Drew restructured and took a paycut in 2009 and he will do it again if needed. The ultimate goal is to free up cap space with out creating any dead money.

2015 - The team keeps Drew Brees and if the cap hasn't increased enough for Loomis to do what needs to be done for the team Drew can forfeit his un-guaranteed salary around 8.5m and that creates that much cap space while still paying him $10m in salary that season.

2016 - Same as above but his salary is 11m instead of 10m...

Drew made 10m in 2013, and 11m in 2014 so the 2015 and 2015 numbers fall in line.

Now this will get very sticky if We win a Super Bowl in 2014 or 2015 and Drew is MVP in either. He may decide he is not on his way out and not give anything up... Look at it this way, if we are winning SBs then Drews contract isn't hurting us now is it?

jeanpierre

2014 NFL compensatory draft picks by team | ProFootballTalk

No, the Saints get no compensatory picks...

WillSaints81

After looking at youtube highlights, I've come to rank the 10 receivers(including Moncrief, excluding Watkins) officially.

1.Evans....made tricky catches, could catch deep passes.
2.Beckman Jr....has speed and explosiveness, tough
3.Benjamin........has toughness, could make some difficult catches, but has agility weakness.
4.Cooks............has great speed, has a small frame, can even rush the ball. Will be seen if he needs to get tougher.
5.Richardson.....Another fast receiver, has height but like Cooks could need toughness. Only knock is playing in the Big Ten.
6.Matthews......Has more physical strength than Cooks and Richardson, but didnt see the lightning quickness of them.
7.Moncrief........I did see the toughness I just wasnt as impressed with everything else. Speed a little off and I see more of a systematic role for him.
8.Robinson.......Same traits as Moncrief, but as I said its Big Ten football.
9.Lee................Will need developing. Injury looked to affect him, just didnt see anything that wowed me.
10.Adams.........Fresno has a history of producing disappointments. Because of that and him playing against too much holes, he's most likely to flop.

jeanpierre

Want to announce a pick at the 2014 ‎NFLDraft‬?

ENTER > 2014 NFL Draft Dream Sweepstakes

Could you see someone get up there and geaux rouge and pick who'd they'd want and not who the team would want?!?

My bet would be on a J-E-T-S fan...