This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere

papz · 12-31-2013, 08:24 AM

Pass rush my friend... it makes a world of a difference.

With all the knocking of our safeties, I wouldn't mind having either back... just not at a premium price point.

jeanpierre · 12-31-2013, 08:52 AM

From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper...

But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips...

Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers...

But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen...

Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense...

Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...

Danno · 12-31-2013, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper...

But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips...

Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers...

But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen...

Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense...

Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...

Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

dizzle88 · 12-31-2013, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

Bush just seems to make plays whenever he is in the game, he doesnt do anything amazing but he's very good at alot of areas

jeanpierre · 12-31-2013, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

Vaccaro definitely was the replacement (and needed) for Harper in most packages before Harper's injury; though I'll say they ran some three safety/dime packages against Matt Ryan et al that confused the shat out of 'em and we're effective; but you can't just ignore the Spags system, getting younger and faster is as important as scheme...

Jenkins has completely shat his pant in his transition year, so he's likely gone unless he comes back at a discount and as a nickel back (like Meachem first round pick, supporting role - what a "fail"); I'd prefer to re-sign Bush over Jenkins at the FS spot with a high draft pick to solidfy the backstop...

Sure did like Elbert Mack from that season; he was the lone bright spot in that Giants game when Harper and Jenkins were chasing seemingly everyone from behind or whiffing against David Wilson...

halloween 65 · 12-31-2013, 08:59 AM

I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

Danno · 12-31-2013, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

Maybe so, but I'm not buying that all of a sudden teams discovered a weakness in MJ. These are some of the smartest football minds on the planet. If he was a glaring weakness they'd throw toward him every play.

But I agree wholeheartedly about ILB. We need speed, we have none. Hawthorne has OK speed, but he's not that heat seeking missile we need.

lumm0x · 12-31-2013, 04:54 PM

There are stats you can massage to make any argument. What never fails is the eye ball test. Harper can't cover anything. He is stout vs. the run and a decent blitzer, but he has poor make up speed and gets caught up in traffic when trying to hang with people. Jenkins has very poor instincts in reading plays and when the ball is in the air. He bites on nearly every pump fake, takes poor angles, and while he doesn't usually allow receivers to separate from him he seldom succeeds in challenging on the ball. Tackling is another suspect area. Too many times he throws his body and makes no effort to wrap.

I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be.

My bottom line point - our new found pass rush is making our entire secondary aside from Keenan Lewis better than it is.

Schmohams · 12-31-2013, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by lumm0x

I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be.

Vaccaro broke his ankle, he will be ready to play most likely before training camp.

Danno · 12-31-2013, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Schmohams

Vaccaro broke his ankle, he will be ready to play most likely before training camp.

And its an injury that typically has a 100% recovery factor.

12-31-2013, 08:24 AM	#1
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,797	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Pass rush my friend... it makes a world of a difference. With all the knocking of our safeties, I wouldn't mind having either back... just not at a premium price point.

12-31-2013, 08:52 AM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper... But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips... Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers... But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen... Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense... Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

12-31-2013, 08:55 AM	#3
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by jeanpierre From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper... But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips... Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers... But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen... Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense... Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage... Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked. You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

12-31-2013, 09:02 AM	#4
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,546	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by Danno Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked. You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system. Bush just seems to make plays whenever he is in the game, he doesnt do anything amazing but he's very good at alot of areas jeanpierre likes this.

12-31-2013, 10:12 AM	#5
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by Danno Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked. You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system. Vaccaro definitely was the replacement (and needed) for Harper in most packages before Harper's injury; though I'll say they ran some three safety/dime packages against Matt Ryan et al that confused the shat out of 'em and we're effective; but you can't just ignore the Spags system, getting younger and faster is as important as scheme... Jenkins has completely shat his pant in his transition year, so he's likely gone unless he comes back at a discount and as a nickel back (like Meachem first round pick, supporting role - what a "fail"); I'd prefer to re-sign Bush over Jenkins at the FS spot with a high draft pick to solidfy the backstop... Sure did like Elbert Mack from that season; he was the lone bright spot in that Giants game when Harper and Jenkins were chasing seemingly everyone from behind or whiffing against David Wilson...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

12-31-2013, 08:59 AM	#6
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

12-31-2013, 09:05 AM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by halloween 65 I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB. Maybe so, but I'm not buying that all of a sudden teams discovered a weakness in MJ. These are some of the smartest football minds on the planet. If he was a glaring weakness they'd throw toward him every play. But I agree wholeheartedly about ILB. We need speed, we have none. Hawthorne has OK speed, but he's not that heat seeking missile we need.

12-31-2013, 04:54 PM	#8
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere There are stats you can massage to make any argument. What never fails is the eye ball test. Harper can't cover anything. He is stout vs. the run and a decent blitzer, but he has poor make up speed and gets caught up in traffic when trying to hang with people. Jenkins has very poor instincts in reading plays and when the ball is in the air. He bites on nearly every pump fake, takes poor angles, and while he doesn't usually allow receivers to separate from him he seldom succeeds in challenging on the ball. Tackling is another suspect area. Too many times he throws his body and makes no effort to wrap. I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be. My bottom line point - our new found pass rush is making our entire secondary aside from Keenan Lewis better than it is. blackangold likes this.

12-31-2013, 05:35 PM	#9
Schmohams 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Texas Posts: 551	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by lumm0x I would not be disappointed to see neither player back. But with Vaccaro suffering the injury both very well may be. Vaccaro broke his ankle, he will be ready to play most likely before training camp.

12-31-2013, 05:37 PM	#10
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by Schmohams Vaccaro broke his ankle, he will be ready to play most likely before training camp. And its an injury that typically has a 100% recovery factor.

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