AB in Saints HoF

st thomas · 05-20-2014, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

Ahem, it was JEFF BLAKE who got the Saints to the playoffs where AB got the first playoff win. Brooks in that year was his usual, average, middling, 3-2 record. The QB that some people wanted in that era (Delhomme) went on to win an NFC Championship for his team, and go to a Pro Bowl, neither of which Brooks ever accomplished in his extremely average and mediocre NFL career as a Saint. Brooks left New Orleans and went to Oakland where he continued his trend of mediocrity. Delhomme left, led his new team to the Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, and still holds passing records for the Panthers that have not been topped.

have no hate towards AB but i'm not going to go overboard and sign him off in our HOF. it won't look that good when DB gets in. he just didn't get it done after getting paid. I know we had tougher schedule after he got our first playoff victory that was awesome, still today but HOF no no jmo.

frydaddy · 05-20-2014, 11:22 AM

SF, I agree with you about most things generally, but you're wearing rose colored glasses when you look back on AB's time here. Are you telling me you don't remember the many times that his arm went one way and the ball went the other? Without anyone even getting a hand on it. What about the way he'd take off running backwards to try to avoid pressure, only to end up sacked for a huge loss or intercepted. His decision making got worse as time went on, his pocket presence and sense for the rush disappeared.. But yeah, he did put up nice stat lines every now and then. He had a cannon after all and eventually our guys had to catch a few. Bad defense? Yep. Shoddy o line play? Yep. We were a mostly garbage team who played a mostly garbage schedule while he was here. So let's applaud him for his ability to occasionally dominate other crappy teams... I don't hate the guy. I'll always appreciate the one good year we got out of him, but that was all we got out of him. I do blame Haslett and his staff be for breaking him. I think if he'd been allowed to do the kinda things he did in year one then it could have turned out a lot better for him.. but it is what it is.

Also, you look kinda silly and a lot like the pot who called the kettle black, ranting about morons and people with their emotions on their sleeves but you got a little butt hurt when Boutte called you out on the name calling.

saintfan · 05-20-2014, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by frydaddy

SF, I agree with you about most things generally, but you're wearing rose colored glasses when you look back on AB's time here. Are you telling me you don't remember the many times that his arm went one way and the ball went the other? Without anyone even getting a hand on it. What about the way he'd take off running backwards to try to avoid pressure, only to end up sacked for a huge loss or intercepted. His decision making got worse as time went on, his pocket presence and sense for the rush disappeared.. But yeah, he did put up nice stat lines every now and then. He had a cannon after all and eventually our guys had to catch a few. Bad defense? Yep. Shoddy o line play? Yep. We were a mostly garbage team who played a mostly garbage schedule while he was here. So let's applaud him for his ability to occasionally dominate other crappy teams... I don't hate the guy. I'll always appreciate the one good year we got out of him, but that was all we got out of him. I do blame Haslett and his staff be for breaking him. I think if he'd been allowed to do the kinda things he did in year one then it could have turned out a lot better for him.. but it is what it is.

Also, you look kinda silly and a lot like the pot who called the kettle black, ranting about morons and people with their emotions on their sleeves but you got a little butt hurt when Boutte called you out on the name calling.

Butt hurt? Not even close. I call it like it see it. Always will. Boutte may not like that. That's his choice.

Now I do get passionate on this topic, as many old-timers here will remember. The fact is that Brooks' numbers, while not worthy of the NFL HOF (and no one is suggesting that) are ABSOLUTELY worthy of ours. You and others hit on something which is key, and that is that the coaching staff tried to take a scrambler like Favre and turn him into a pocket passer, and that, probably more than anything, hurt Brooks' game.

But Lord almighty the stuff that got blamed on Aaron. Our defense can't defend a screen. It's Brooks' fault. Yes, some moron actually made that argument here. He wants a raise. He's not a team player! He runs backwards (something you mentioned). Yes, he did. Most usually running for his life because we couldn't block a d-line full of grandmothers.

Below is a link that is a good read. I'm not much on the racism angle, but I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that it played a part. The Brooks hate was just off the charts back then:

A Case for Aaron Brooks - Canal Street Chronicles

This one is shorter for those who don't want to invest the time:

Aaron Brooks: Saint or sinner? - NFL - Yahoo Sports

Utah_Saint · 05-20-2014, 12:11 PM

I don't think he was good enough for the HoF.

Vrillon82 · 05-20-2014, 01:04 PM

I think Aaron Brooks problem was Haslett and Venturi.

But you know who the OC was for Brooks? You see why he was decent at times.

stickman · 05-20-2014, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Vrillon82

I think Aaron Brooks problem was Haslett and Venturi.

But you know who the OC was for Brooks? You see why he was decent at times.

Agreed. There was a season where we needed to win one of our remaining 3 games to make the playoffs. Haslett refused to bench a hurt Brooks and start Jake Delhomme. Brooks played like an injured QB, Saints lost all 3 games, and Brooks got flamed for it. I still put that squarely on Haslett.

BTW: We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Delhomme had started, but, at least our QB would have been healthy.

Oh, and don't hold the 3-13 post Katrina season against anyone.

saintfan · 05-20-2014, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

Agreed. There was a season where we needed to win one of our remaining 3 games to make the playoffs. Haslett refused to bench a hurt Brooks and start Jake Delhomme. Brooks played like an injured QB, Saints lost all 3 games, and Brooks got flamed for it. I still put that squarely on Haslett.

BTW: We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Delhomme had started, but, at least our QB would have been healthy.

Oh, and don't hold the 3-13 post Katrina season against anyone.

And in that last game, Brooks threw a pass to pathon. Nothing but 40 yards of green to the end zone. Pass hit him directly in the hands. He catches we score and likely win. He dropped it. We lose. And all the morons scream even louder for Brooks' head.

It...never...stopped.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Budsdrinker · 05-20-2014, 02:07 PM

I think there is some confusion here. Brooks himself stated he wanted to be known as a pocket passer and not the typical running black QB. It wasn't the Saints trying to convert him, that's what he wanted. I also think you need to look again at the defense. The defense was not awful. In 2000 Glover led the league in sacks and we had a +9 turnover ratio. The first playoff win the defense had 3 picks and 2 fumble recoveries. That playoff win was all around team win but if you feel better with AB in the Saints HOF so be it. There are others that can be labeled questionable also.

Jack Vegas · 05-20-2014, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

An AB story I'll never forget, mostly...

We lost an important game and everyone was blaming AB for the loss, including the boobs on WWL. The coaches were irritated enough to invite Buddy D and company to a film review and show him exactly what the plays were, and exactly where AB was supposed to throw the ball to, and exactly where the WR was supposed to be but wasn't.

The very next day Buddy D admitted on air that yes, the plays in question were NOT AB's fault at all.

Two days later he's back on air blaming AB for those plays.

I remember this very well too.

I think Brooks was an easy scapegoat for a couple reasons, mostly because he didn't look the part. He had the skinniest chicken legs I've ever seen and a head (with his helmet on) that looked way too big for his body. He was shy. He looked awkward on the field. He could run like a deer and had a rocket launcher for an arm. But anytime he wasn't doing one of those two things he looked like the clumsy kid at school, which made his mistakes look even worse. And he wasn't out there yelling at people and being a fiery leader.

The racism angle is overplayed. I don't people in general disliked him because they were racists (although some did). I think they disliked him because the team wasn't winning enough games and he just didn't fit the mental image of what people wanted their favorite team's QB to look like. And I actually understand that.

But good Lord, those teams had a distinct lack of talent. When I say that I don't mean a lack of speed or size, we had a whole bunch of real fast guys with size and real big guys with speed. We just didn't have a whole lot of smart players. We had routinely one of the most penalized teams in the league. O-line would hold and false start all game long. I won't even get into the revolving cast of buffoons he put on the o-line. Jerry Fontenot was a decent player in his twilight years and LeCharles Bentley had a pretty good rookie season. Other than that it was straight trash for 5 years.Defense was full of Malcolm Jenkins/Tebucky Jones types who never took a proper angle or wrapped up on a tackle in their lives. And no discipline or accountability either. That's all on Haslett.

I still do not understand how Haslett could've been such a good defensive coordinator yet have such a bad defense as head coach. His big ideas were to move a pass rushing DE to middle linebacker (Clemons) and to put two giant fat guys in the middle of the DL (Hand and Jackson). Continually brought in guys like Jason Craft and Fakhir Brown and tried to convince everybody "hey these guys are pretty good" well maybe they were a little better than the super-crappy guy you had in that spot last year but it still ain't exactly "good." When your best linebacker is 142-year-old Darrin Smith you have some pretty big problems.

I could go on and on but I'd just make myself mad at the sheer incompetence.

rezburna · 05-20-2014, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

I think there is some confusion here. Brooks himself stated he wanted to be known as a pocket passer and not the typical running black QB. It wasn't the Saints trying to convert him, that's what he wanted. I also think you need to look again at the defense. The defense was not awful. In 2000 Glover led the league in sacks and we had a +9 turnover ratio. The first playoff win the defense had 3 picks and 2 fumble recoveries. That playoff win was all around team win but if you feel better with AB in the Saints HOF so be it. There are others that can be labeled questionable also.

Black QB's say that only to shed the negative connotations that come with being a black, scrambling, qb. It damn sure doesn't stop them from running. Cam Newton says he wants to be known as a pocket passer, as well as RG3, and Vick...but they keep running.

05-20-2014, 10:36 AM	#41
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: AB in Saints HoF Originally Posted by SaintsBro Ahem, it was JEFF BLAKE who got the Saints to the playoffs where AB got the first playoff win. Brooks in that year was his usual, average, middling, 3-2 record. The QB that some people wanted in that era (Delhomme) went on to win an NFC Championship for his team, and go to a Pro Bowl, neither of which Brooks ever accomplished in his extremely average and mediocre NFL career as a Saint. Brooks left New Orleans and went to Oakland where he continued his trend of mediocrity. Delhomme left, led his new team to the Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, and still holds passing records for the Panthers that have not been topped. have no hate towards AB but i'm not going to go overboard and sign him off in our HOF. it won't look that good when DB gets in. he just didn't get it done after getting paid. I know we had tougher schedule after he got our first playoff victory that was awesome, still today but HOF no no jmo.

05-20-2014, 11:22 AM	#42
frydaddy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lafayette Posts: 1,950 Blog Entries: 1	Re: AB in Saints HoF SF, I agree with you about most things generally, but you're wearing rose colored glasses when you look back on AB's time here. Are you telling me you don't remember the many times that his arm went one way and the ball went the other? Without anyone even getting a hand on it. What about the way he'd take off running backwards to try to avoid pressure, only to end up sacked for a huge loss or intercepted. His decision making got worse as time went on, his pocket presence and sense for the rush disappeared.. But yeah, he did put up nice stat lines every now and then. He had a cannon after all and eventually our guys had to catch a few. Bad defense? Yep. Shoddy o line play? Yep. We were a mostly garbage team who played a mostly garbage schedule while he was here. So let's applaud him for his ability to occasionally dominate other crappy teams... I don't hate the guy. I'll always appreciate the one good year we got out of him, but that was all we got out of him. I do blame Haslett and his staff be for breaking him. I think if he'd been allowed to do the kinda things he did in year one then it could have turned out a lot better for him.. but it is what it is. Also, you look kinda silly and a lot like the pot who called the kettle black, ranting about morons and people with their emotions on their sleeves but you got a little butt hurt when Boutte called you out on the name calling. ScottF and CharityMike like this.
	Mais forte do que a morte

05-20-2014, 11:43 AM	#43
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: AB in Saints HoF Originally Posted by frydaddy SF, I agree with you about most things generally, but you're wearing rose colored glasses when you look back on AB's time here. Are you telling me you don't remember the many times that his arm went one way and the ball went the other? Without anyone even getting a hand on it. What about the way he'd take off running backwards to try to avoid pressure, only to end up sacked for a huge loss or intercepted. His decision making got worse as time went on, his pocket presence and sense for the rush disappeared.. But yeah, he did put up nice stat lines every now and then. He had a cannon after all and eventually our guys had to catch a few. Bad defense? Yep. Shoddy o line play? Yep. We were a mostly garbage team who played a mostly garbage schedule while he was here. So let's applaud him for his ability to occasionally dominate other crappy teams... I don't hate the guy. I'll always appreciate the one good year we got out of him, but that was all we got out of him. I do blame Haslett and his staff be for breaking him. I think if he'd been allowed to do the kinda things he did in year one then it could have turned out a lot better for him.. but it is what it is. Also, you look kinda silly and a lot like the pot who called the kettle black, ranting about morons and people with their emotions on their sleeves but you got a little butt hurt when Boutte called you out on the name calling. Butt hurt? Not even close. I call it like it see it. Always will. Boutte may not like that. That's his choice. Now I do get passionate on this topic, as many old-timers here will remember. The fact is that Brooks' numbers, while not worthy of the NFL HOF (and no one is suggesting that) are ABSOLUTELY worthy of ours. You and others hit on something which is key, and that is that the coaching staff tried to take a scrambler like Favre and turn him into a pocket passer, and that, probably more than anything, hurt Brooks' game. But Lord almighty the stuff that got blamed on Aaron. Our defense can't defend a screen. It's Brooks' fault. Yes, some moron actually made that argument here. He wants a raise. He's not a team player! He runs backwards (something you mentioned). Yes, he did. Most usually running for his life because we couldn't block a d-line full of grandmothers. Below is a link that is a good read. I'm not much on the racism angle, but I have NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that it played a part. The Brooks hate was just off the charts back then: A Case for Aaron Brooks - Canal Street Chronicles This one is shorter for those who don't want to invest the time: Aaron Brooks: Saint or sinner? - NFL - Yahoo Sports rezburna likes this.
	C'mon Man...

05-20-2014, 12:11 PM	#44
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: AB in Saints HoF I don't think he was good enough for the HoF. SaintsBro likes this.

05-20-2014, 01:04 PM	#45
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127	Re: AB in Saints HoF I think Aaron Brooks problem was Haslett and Venturi. But you know who the OC was for Brooks? You see why he was decent at times. foreverfan likes this.
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127

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05-20-2014, 01:26 PM	#46
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,687	Re: AB in Saints HoF Originally Posted by Vrillon82 I think Aaron Brooks problem was Haslett and Venturi. But you know who the OC was for Brooks? You see why he was decent at times. Agreed. There was a season where we needed to win one of our remaining 3 games to make the playoffs. Haslett refused to bench a hurt Brooks and start Jake Delhomme. Brooks played like an injured QB, Saints lost all 3 games, and Brooks got flamed for it. I still put that squarely on Haslett. BTW: We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Delhomme had started, but, at least our QB would have been healthy. Oh, and don't hold the 3-13 post Katrina season against anyone. foreverfan likes this.

05-20-2014, 02:00 PM	#47
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: AB in Saints HoF Originally Posted by stickman Agreed. There was a season where we needed to win one of our remaining 3 games to make the playoffs. Haslett refused to bench a hurt Brooks and start Jake Delhomme. Brooks played like an injured QB, Saints lost all 3 games, and Brooks got flamed for it. I still put that squarely on Haslett. BTW: We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Delhomme had started, but, at least our QB would have been healthy. Oh, and don't hold the 3-13 post Katrina season against anyone. And in that last game, Brooks threw a pass to pathon. Nothing but 40 yards of green to the end zone. Pass hit him directly in the hands. He catches we score and likely win. He dropped it. We lose. And all the morons scream even louder for Brooks' head. It...never...stopped. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Danno and foreverfan like this.
	Last edited by saintfan; 05-20-2014 at 02:03 PM..

05-20-2014, 02:07 PM	#48
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: AB in Saints HoF I think there is some confusion here. Brooks himself stated he wanted to be known as a pocket passer and not the typical running black QB. It wasn't the Saints trying to convert him, that's what he wanted. I also think you need to look again at the defense. The defense was not awful. In 2000 Glover led the league in sacks and we had a +9 turnover ratio. The first playoff win the defense had 3 picks and 2 fumble recoveries. That playoff win was all around team win but if you feel better with AB in the Saints HOF so be it. There are others that can be labeled questionable also.

05-20-2014, 02:21 PM	#49
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: AB in Saints HoF Originally Posted by Danno An AB story I'll never forget, mostly... We lost an important game and everyone was blaming AB for the loss, including the boobs on WWL. The coaches were irritated enough to invite Buddy D and company to a film review and show him exactly what the plays were, and exactly where AB was supposed to throw the ball to, and exactly where the WR was supposed to be but wasn't. The very next day Buddy D admitted on air that yes, the plays in question were NOT AB's fault at all. Two days later he's back on air blaming AB for those plays. I remember this very well too. I think Brooks was an easy scapegoat for a couple reasons, mostly because he didn't look the part. He had the skinniest chicken legs I've ever seen and a head (with his helmet on) that looked way too big for his body. He was shy. He looked awkward on the field. He could run like a deer and had a rocket launcher for an arm. But anytime he wasn't doing one of those two things he looked like the clumsy kid at school, which made his mistakes look even worse. And he wasn't out there yelling at people and being a fiery leader. The racism angle is overplayed. I don't people in general disliked him because they were racists (although some did). I think they disliked him because the team wasn't winning enough games and he just didn't fit the mental image of what people wanted their favorite team's QB to look like. And I actually understand that. But good Lord, those teams had a distinct lack of talent. When I say that I don't mean a lack of speed or size, we had a whole bunch of real fast guys with size and real big guys with speed. We just didn't have a whole lot of smart players. We had routinely one of the most penalized teams in the league. O-line would hold and false start all game long. I won't even get into the revolving cast of buffoons he put on the o-line. Jerry Fontenot was a decent player in his twilight years and LeCharles Bentley had a pretty good rookie season. Other than that it was straight trash for 5 years.Defense was full of Malcolm Jenkins/Tebucky Jones types who never took a proper angle or wrapped up on a tackle in their lives. And no discipline or accountability either. That's all on Haslett. I still do not understand how Haslett could've been such a good defensive coordinator yet have such a bad defense as head coach. His big ideas were to move a pass rushing DE to middle linebacker (Clemons) and to put two giant fat guys in the middle of the DL (Hand and Jackson). Continually brought in guys like Jason Craft and Fakhir Brown and tried to convince everybody "hey these guys are pretty good" well maybe they were a little better than the super-crappy guy you had in that spot last year but it still ain't exactly "good." When your best linebacker is 142-year-old Darrin Smith you have some pretty big problems. I could go on and on but I'd just make myself mad at the sheer incompetence. foreverfan likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

05-20-2014, 02:23 PM	#50
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: AB in Saints HoF Originally Posted by Budsdrinker I think there is some confusion here. Brooks himself stated he wanted to be known as a pocket passer and not the typical running black QB. It wasn't the Saints trying to convert him, that's what he wanted. I also think you need to look again at the defense. The defense was not awful. In 2000 Glover led the league in sacks and we had a +9 turnover ratio. The first playoff win the defense had 3 picks and 2 fumble recoveries. That playoff win was all around team win but if you feel better with AB in the Saints HOF so be it. There are others that can be labeled questionable also. Black QB's say that only to shed the negative connotations that come with being a black, scrambling, qb. It damn sure doesn't stop them from running. Cam Newton says he wants to be known as a pocket passer, as well as RG3, and Vick...but they keep running. saintfan likes this.

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