Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft

saintswhodi · 11-30-2004, 10:36 PM

Why is this even a question? If we were on Wall Street they would be screaming SELL SELL SELL!!! Tank it. What\'s the point of trying to make the playoffs and losing out to Tampa or Carolina in the final game? To pick 17th again? No way. We have a golden opportunity that we blew the last time on Sullivan to draft in the top 10. The Saints, as mediocre as they are, rarely get the chance without selling their soul(see Ricky Williams). You think all those high draft picks have helped San Diego? This is what we need. Haslett is gone and we get a stud int he draft, provided a new regime is not as inept at draftign as this one was.

I guess none of you guys decided to read that I wrote this. I already admittes Sully was a bust as a pick in the top 10 and saw we could make up for it. I guess you ignore what you want when you wanna make your point.

xan · 11-30-2004, 11:56 PM

From what I can see, there aren\'t a lot of impact players coming out in the draft this year. So, that being said, I\'d just assume spoil some holidays and take our chances when the draft rolls around, one or two spots don\'t look like they\'re going to make a hell of a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things.

Plus, when players tank, they usually get injured to boot, so any players slacking run the risk of ruining their careers. Hustle, win stay healthy for a new regime.

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 02:08 AM

So xan, in your opinion, Derrick Johnson, Antrell Rolle, Matt Leinart and Aaron Rodgers are not impact players? Wow.

G504 · 12-01-2004, 02:22 AM

I agree with E. I can never support tanking as a strategy. You always play to win.

frankeefrank · 12-01-2004, 05:18 AM

playoffs?
you kidding me?
I just want to win another game

mutineer10 · 12-01-2004, 06:29 AM

I guess none of you guys decided to read that I wrote this. I already admittes Sully was a bust as a pick in the top 10 and saw we could make up for it. I guess you ignore what you want when you wanna make your point.

I think JKool may share my fears that, under Loomis\' inept watch (and his job is safe according to some other posts), we may end up screwing the pooch again no matter how high we pick.

It\'s a touchy situation - while I agree there is wisdom to calling it a wash and \"waiting until next season,\" most Saints fans aren\'t conditioned to have high hopes for draft picks. While this has much to do with Haslett and his staff\'s inability to develop talent (AB hasn\'t improved in three years, and wasn\'t even a rookie when we got him), I have my doubts about the quality of coach we\'ll get after Haz\'s expected departure. Not to mention the questionable range of personnel decision-making the new coach will be granted in his first year.

That being said, I say WIN \'EM ALL!!! I\'m a fan in the end, and I simply can\'t sit back on Sundays with a smile on my face while the Saints lose out. Granted, I doubt we CAN win very many more, but I\'m never gonna pull for us to lose. Plus, while I don\'t expect the LA move to happen, I don\'t wanna see anything to encourage the possibility.

High draft picks implode frequently, whether due to laziness, overrating, injury, or some other reason. At the same time, 3rd or 4th round picks, and even undrafted rookies, emerge as quality starters. It\'s a crapshoot, and some coaches and GM\'s are just better gamblers than others. I can\'t defend knowingly losing out on the hope that we\'ll strike it big (especially since we never have).

Finally, unless there\'s a players mutiny, Haz & friends aren\'t gonna throw the remaining games, anyway (did anyone else hear Haz\'s Pete Rose comment? LOL!). The coaches know their butt\'s are on the line, and that their only hope of redemption is something dramatic. A players mutiny is doubtful (except for Brooks ... he\'s been doing it all year), as those who are unhappy here or who are looking at free-agency are gonna be auditioning. Like it or not, these guys do it for the money, and they probably ain\'t gonna jerk around because they\'re convinced some rookie is gonna come in and save the team.

Euphoria · 12-01-2004, 09:22 AM

saintswhodi - if you pick a side to a debate, stick to it, don\'t get wishy-washy. Your \'sell, sell, sell stradegy contradicts having leadership come in and make good picks. Say for instance a person who can draft can draft great at 10 as well as he can at say 6. I am all for bringing Randy back but I trust him at 5 and I trust him at 10. I just don\'t think you \'tank\' games unless its the last and give bench players a shot, for the number one pick. You don\'t tank 3-7 games out sorry.

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 10:17 AM

How was anything I said wishy washy Euph? I have stated for weeks we should tank, get Haslett fired and go into the draft high. At what point do you think I flip-flopped on this opinion cause I fail to see it. I don\'t see how sell sell sell THIS YEAR contradicts anything about the future. Why the hell would I wanna be of a sell sell mind-set if we get a new coach and a high draft pick, which I want? I think your argument is losing steam so you question me. I think you can ask pretty much anyone what my position is ON THIS SEASON and they will all give you the same answer. Nice try though.

Also, just so I am not confused, in your own opinion, we should at best try to win all our remaining games(yeah right) probably put together a streak of two games, get all your hopes up about the playoffs, lose a game no way we should lose, end up 7-9, pick 18 and be forced into taking a Will Smith again cause \"all the players we coveted were gone.\" So if the majority don\'t wanna take a shot at Johnson or Rolle, someone tell me who they think will be available at 18 that can come in right now and help the team. Please. Just about everyone has said that with Loomis staying free agency isn\'t looking so hot as a means of gaining players which leaves us with the draft. Give me the stud # 18 pick who will help us.

[Edited on 1/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

Danno · 12-01-2004, 11:14 AM

Sorry fellas, we\'ve got too many quitters on this team already. Show me a quitter and I\'ll show you someone who\'ll never be anything more than a loser. Every player on this team better play their assses off from now till week 16.

I think a quitters mentality will follow this team into 2005 and the next regime. I wouldn\'t want to burden the next staff with trying to purge a quitters attitude from all these young players we have.

But I think they can still play their tails off and we\'ll still only win a couple more games. I don\'t think there\'s much difference between picking 6th and 12th, if you have a GM who knows what the heck he\'s doing.

I really like most of the players on this team, Deuce, Joe, Karney, Howard, Grant, Young, MM, Pathon, Bellamy, Mitchell, Boo, etc. I want them to walk off the field winners, not losers. A few wins down the stretch will give some of these players the confidence they need to come out of the gates next year full speed.

Is there anyone who still thinks this current staff will be kept in tact? I don\'t.

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 11:56 AM

Wait, Danno do we follow the same team? You don\'t want them to have a \"quitters\" mentality? Have you been following them the last few years? What other mentality have they shown since 2000? Did you think they were winners coming into this season? Egads, are our standards so low in New Orleans now that being 8-8 or 7-9 is having a \"winners/never give up\" mentality? I shudder to think that that is true. SO losing to a winless Arizona and a winless Tampa in consecutive weeks, having the last place defense in every category in the NFL by far, and being 3 games under .500 somehow denotes there is a \"winners\" and a \"never give up\" type attitude on this team? Jesus, we really are jaded. Being 7-1 or 7-2 a few years ago and tanking to sub .500 teams in Dec. means we aren\'t quitters? Then having the same thing almost exactly happen the next year? I give up.

11-30-2004, 10:36 PM	#11
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Why is this even a question? If we were on Wall Street they would be screaming SELL SELL SELL!!! Tank it. What\'s the point of trying to make the playoffs and losing out to Tampa or Carolina in the final game? To pick 17th again? No way. We have a golden opportunity that we blew the last time on Sullivan to draft in the top 10. The Saints, as mediocre as they are, rarely get the chance without selling their soul(see Ricky Williams). You think all those high draft picks have helped San Diego? This is what we need. Haslett is gone and we get a stud int he draft, provided a new regime is not as inept at draftign as this one was. I guess none of you guys decided to read that I wrote this. I already admittes Sully was a bust as a pick in the top 10 and saw we could make up for it. I guess you ignore what you want when you wanna make your point.

11-30-2004, 11:56 PM	#12
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft From what I can see, there aren\'t a lot of impact players coming out in the draft this year. So, that being said, I\'d just assume spoil some holidays and take our chances when the draft rolls around, one or two spots don\'t look like they\'re going to make a hell of a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things. Plus, when players tank, they usually get injured to boot, so any players slacking run the risk of ruining their careers. Hustle, win stay healthy for a new regime.

12-01-2004, 02:08 AM	#13
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft So xan, in your opinion, Derrick Johnson, Antrell Rolle, Matt Leinart and Aaron Rodgers are not impact players? Wow.

12-01-2004, 02:22 AM	#14
G504 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Miami Posts: 424	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft I agree with E. I can never support tanking as a strategy. You always play to win.

12-01-2004, 05:18 AM	#15
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft playoffs? you kidding me? I just want to win another game
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775

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12-01-2004, 06:29 AM	#16
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft I guess none of you guys decided to read that I wrote this. I already admittes Sully was a bust as a pick in the top 10 and saw we could make up for it. I guess you ignore what you want when you wanna make your point. I think JKool may share my fears that, under Loomis\' inept watch (and his job is safe according to some other posts), we may end up screwing the pooch again no matter how high we pick. It\'s a touchy situation - while I agree there is wisdom to calling it a wash and \"waiting until next season,\" most Saints fans aren\'t conditioned to have high hopes for draft picks. While this has much to do with Haslett and his staff\'s inability to develop talent (AB hasn\'t improved in three years, and wasn\'t even a rookie when we got him), I have my doubts about the quality of coach we\'ll get after Haz\'s expected departure. Not to mention the questionable range of personnel decision-making the new coach will be granted in his first year. That being said, I say WIN \'EM ALL!!! I\'m a fan in the end, and I simply can\'t sit back on Sundays with a smile on my face while the Saints lose out. Granted, I doubt we CAN win very many more, but I\'m never gonna pull for us to lose. Plus, while I don\'t expect the LA move to happen, I don\'t wanna see anything to encourage the possibility. High draft picks implode frequently, whether due to laziness, overrating, injury, or some other reason. At the same time, 3rd or 4th round picks, and even undrafted rookies, emerge as quality starters. It\'s a crapshoot, and some coaches and GM\'s are just better gamblers than others. I can\'t defend knowingly losing out on the hope that we\'ll strike it big (especially since we never have). Finally, unless there\'s a players mutiny, Haz & friends aren\'t gonna throw the remaining games, anyway (did anyone else hear Haz\'s Pete Rose comment? LOL!). The coaches know their butt\'s are on the line, and that their only hope of redemption is something dramatic. A players mutiny is doubtful (except for Brooks ... he\'s been doing it all year), as those who are unhappy here or who are looking at free-agency are gonna be auditioning. Like it or not, these guys do it for the money, and they probably ain\'t gonna jerk around because they\'re convinced some rookie is gonna come in and save the team.

12-01-2004, 09:22 AM	#17
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft saintswhodi - if you pick a side to a debate, stick to it, don\'t get wishy-washy. Your \'sell, sell, sell stradegy contradicts having leadership come in and make good picks. Say for instance a person who can draft can draft great at 10 as well as he can at say 6. I am all for bringing Randy back but I trust him at 5 and I trust him at 10. I just don\'t think you \'tank\' games unless its the last and give bench players a shot, for the number one pick. You don\'t tank 3-7 games out sorry.
	E U P H O R I A

12-01-2004, 10:17 AM	#18
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft How was anything I said wishy washy Euph? I have stated for weeks we should tank, get Haslett fired and go into the draft high. At what point do you think I flip-flopped on this opinion cause I fail to see it. I don\'t see how sell sell sell THIS YEAR contradicts anything about the future. Why the hell would I wanna be of a sell sell mind-set if we get a new coach and a high draft pick, which I want? I think your argument is losing steam so you question me. I think you can ask pretty much anyone what my position is ON THIS SEASON and they will all give you the same answer. Nice try though. Also, just so I am not confused, in your own opinion, we should at best try to win all our remaining games(yeah right) probably put together a streak of two games, get all your hopes up about the playoffs, lose a game no way we should lose, end up 7-9, pick 18 and be forced into taking a Will Smith again cause \"all the players we coveted were gone.\" So if the majority don\'t wanna take a shot at Johnson or Rolle, someone tell me who they think will be available at 18 that can come in right now and help the team. Please. Just about everyone has said that with Loomis staying free agency isn\'t looking so hot as a means of gaining players which leaves us with the draft. Give me the stud # 18 pick who will help us. [Edited on 1/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

12-01-2004, 11:14 AM	#19
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Sorry fellas, we\'ve got too many quitters on this team already. Show me a quitter and I\'ll show you someone who\'ll never be anything more than a loser. Every player on this team better play their assses off from now till week 16. I think a quitters mentality will follow this team into 2005 and the next regime. I wouldn\'t want to burden the next staff with trying to purge a quitters attitude from all these young players we have. But I think they can still play their tails off and we\'ll still only win a couple more games. I don\'t think there\'s much difference between picking 6th and 12th, if you have a GM who knows what the heck he\'s doing. I really like most of the players on this team, Deuce, Joe, Karney, Howard, Grant, Young, MM, Pathon, Bellamy, Mitchell, Boo, etc. I want them to walk off the field winners, not losers. A few wins down the stretch will give some of these players the confidence they need to come out of the gates next year full speed. Is there anyone who still thinks this current staff will be kept in tact? I don\'t.

12-01-2004, 11:56 AM	#20
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Wait, Danno do we follow the same team? You don\'t want them to have a \"quitters\" mentality? Have you been following them the last few years? What other mentality have they shown since 2000? Did you think they were winners coming into this season? Egads, are our standards so low in New Orleans now that being 8-8 or 7-9 is having a \"winners/never give up\" mentality? I shudder to think that that is true. SO losing to a winless Arizona and a winless Tampa in consecutive weeks, having the last place defense in every category in the NFL by far, and being 3 games under .500 somehow denotes there is a \"winners\" and a \"never give up\" type attitude on this team? Jesus, we really are jaded. Being 7-1 or 7-2 a few years ago and tanking to sub .500 teams in Dec. means we aren\'t quitters? Then having the same thing almost exactly happen the next year? I give up.