Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 03:18 PM

Danno, you are right, bad choice of words on my part. I will rephrase. We should not put any more effort into winning than what they already have. I can see what you mean by how I used tanking, and it was not fully explained and incorrect on my part. I mean put young guys like Buckwoldt and Watson and Gleason in and see what they can do. Get Devery on the field and see what he can do. Experiment with the line to see if it gets better. I basically want them to just maintain the status quo, do what they do, and not put anything more into trying to win. My bad on the choice of words.

Euphoria · 12-01-2004, 07:29 PM

OMG... you can\'t tell me drafting is not a crap shoot. Until you have a player playing the speed of the NFL, you don\'t know it its going to work out or not. The players you mention were they drafted number one??? HMMMM.... so why should we draft number one??? Sullivan at 6... come on what a wast he was.

Euphoria · 12-01-2004, 07:55 PM

...then why don\'t teams just forfeit. Wouldn\'t that just be much easier.

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 08:36 PM

First Euph, they can\'t forfeit. Second as I said before, we could go round and round on the crap shoot draft idea. It has some merit, but there are enough good players that come out that I have faith something good can be attained. You keep bringing up Sully, but that was a bad choice by the Saints. NOONE had him on thier board in the first round, and especially not at number 6. If we had taken Trufant or Kevin Williams would they be busts? No, cause they are not now. Please get off the Sully argument cause that is the staff not being able to evaluate talent and not a fault of the draft. So tell me now you feel Derrick Johnson or Antrell Rolle will be busts. Tell me now you wouldn\'t be giddy if either was a Saint. I would like for you to put that in print so I can save it for draft time.

BlackandBlue · 12-02-2004, 12:04 AM

Go Saints!

I actually don\'t think they have a shot in hell of winning more than 2 more games this season, but I will be laughing my ass off if they win out. The entertainment value alone, reading all the panic posts and irate \"I hope you are happy\" one-liners, will provide hours of enjoyment for myself. Plus, it doesn\'t make any sense to me to hope that the team you supposedly root for, loses.

xan · 12-02-2004, 12:35 AM

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post:
_____________________________________________________
So xan, in your opinion, Derrick Johnson, Antrell Rolle, Matt Leinart and Aaron Rodgers are not impact players? Wow.
______________________________________________________

I\'ve not seen any of the above in an NFL game. It\'s easy to say someone\'s an \"impact player\" when that player is playing inferior competition, especially in college. Just look at Oakland, with more former #1 picks and \"impact players\" to see that scouting this feature has no formula.

Ultimately, impact players are monomoniacal, unafraid to be shackled to the seemingly one dimensional aspect of their vocation. There are a lot of \"gentlemen farmers\" in the NFL, and too many on the Saints, happy to be getting a hefty paycheck and trying to run the streak out before forced to do something else, with a sizeable nest egg to rest on. Unfortunately, there\'s no one anyone fears. That fear comes with the respect earned from punishing an opponent without mercy every down, every game.

Your list has talent, but no impact.

shadowdrinker_x · 12-02-2004, 02:35 AM

It\'s a catch 22...If we win..we lose out on higher picks..If we tank..We lose respect from within...

As long as this team..just cracks some heads..Win,Lose, or Draw..Doesn\'t really matter

To pick a good player in the first 2 rounds is suppose to be a given...Teams are suppose to know who they need..and how much they need them...

I think most of the guys on here are like me..and sick of seeing opportunities wasted, each year, on losers...And the answer isn\'t to tank...If it happens..hey..we win..but..at least keep some Integrity...I know I have been one of the main people saying I hope we lose it all...and get top 5 picks...But..In Retrospect..I just want them to hurt people..who cares about the score...Just Kill..Let someone else clean up the mess

SaintFanInATLHELL · 12-02-2004, 06:50 AM

plaoffs not possible. The Saints have not been able to post a 6 game winniong streak since 2000. Since than with Brooks at the helm the team has only been able to muster 2 game winning streaks followed bye a loss. Except in 2002 when they one 3 games in a row twice. I just hope we don\'t get sweeped bye Tampa Bay. Tampa has not sweeped the Saints yet I would like to see this streak continue.

There\'s only 5 games left. Not 6.

The point is that the conference is so weak that they won\'t need a 5 game winning streak. They probably only need to win 4 of those 5 games because beating Carolina, TB, and Dallas would put the Saints ahead of each of those three contenders. They already have the head to head against the Rams. So that only leaves the Giants who are playing a rookie QB and has lost 1/2 of their defensive line.

But the real question is doing this in the team\'s long term best interest?

BTW I agree with the assessment that giving extended interviews to the younger players to evaluate their talent could work whether or not the Saints win or lose. We already know what the current players can or cannot do. But folks like Henderson and others are completely unknown quantities. Why not give them a chance to show what they can do. If they win, fine. But if they don\'t what damage would it do?

But I bet Haslett and Loomis won\'t do it. If I were Benson I\'d demand it.

SFIAH

[Edited on 2/12/2004 by SaintFanInATLHELL]

SaintFanInATLHELL · 12-02-2004, 07:16 AM

From what I can see, there aren\'t a lot of impact players coming out in the draft this year. So, that being said, I\'d just assume spoil some holidays and take our chances when the draft rolls around, one or two spots don\'t look like they\'re going to make a hell of a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things.

Plus, when players tank, they usually get injured to boot, so any players slacking run the risk of ruining their careers. Hustle, win stay healthy for a new regime.

You don\'t tank with players. You tank with scheme. You tank by changing personnel. You tank by \"...giving young players a chance to shine.\"

And you\'ll get hustle. You\'ll get spark. You\'ll get that 100 yard game that Stecker had in the early season. You may even win a game or two.

But this is a league about talent and coaching. If you put your 2nd string talent up against others 1st string talent, it doesn\'t matter how much they try, the 1st stringers will prevail most of the time.

SFIAH

Danno · 12-02-2004, 07:33 AM

Now THAT I wouldn\'t mind. Once we\'re offiially eliminated lets take a look at the youngsters.

Start Leisle, Mitchell, Sullivan (all 60 minutes), Will Smith, Bockwoldt, Allen (all 60 minutes), Watson, Craft, Brown, Hilton, Klingsbury, Stecker, Henderson, Gardner, and Stinchcomb. Or at least get a lot of minutes.

It won\'t be TANKING the game but I can assure you the results would be the same and these youngins would get some real game time and accurate evaluation.

I could live with that, easily.

12-01-2004, 03:18 PM	#31
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Danno, you are right, bad choice of words on my part. I will rephrase. We should not put any more effort into winning than what they already have. I can see what you mean by how I used tanking, and it was not fully explained and incorrect on my part. I mean put young guys like Buckwoldt and Watson and Gleason in and see what they can do. Get Devery on the field and see what he can do. Experiment with the line to see if it gets better. I basically want them to just maintain the status quo, do what they do, and not put anything more into trying to win. My bad on the choice of words.

12-01-2004, 07:29 PM	#32
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft OMG... you can\'t tell me drafting is not a crap shoot. Until you have a player playing the speed of the NFL, you don\'t know it its going to work out or not. The players you mention were they drafted number one??? HMMMM.... so why should we draft number one??? Sullivan at 6... come on what a wast he was.

12-01-2004, 07:55 PM	#33
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft ...then why don\'t teams just forfeit. Wouldn\'t that just be much easier.

12-01-2004, 08:36 PM	#34
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft First Euph, they can\'t forfeit. Second as I said before, we could go round and round on the crap shoot draft idea. It has some merit, but there are enough good players that come out that I have faith something good can be attained. You keep bringing up Sully, but that was a bad choice by the Saints. NOONE had him on thier board in the first round, and especially not at number 6. If we had taken Trufant or Kevin Williams would they be busts? No, cause they are not now. Please get off the Sully argument cause that is the staff not being able to evaluate talent and not a fault of the draft. So tell me now you feel Derrick Johnson or Antrell Rolle will be busts. Tell me now you wouldn\'t be giddy if either was a Saint. I would like for you to put that in print so I can save it for draft time.

12-02-2004, 12:04 AM	#35
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Go Saints! I actually don\'t think they have a shot in hell of winning more than 2 more games this season, but I will be laughing my ass off if they win out. The entertainment value alone, reading all the panic posts and irate \"I hope you are happy\" one-liners, will provide hours of enjoyment for myself. Plus, it doesn\'t make any sense to me to hope that the team you supposedly root for, loses.

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12-02-2004, 12:35 AM	#36
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Sorry for the delay in responding to your post: _____________________________________________________ So xan, in your opinion, Derrick Johnson, Antrell Rolle, Matt Leinart and Aaron Rodgers are not impact players? Wow. ______________________________________________________ I\'ve not seen any of the above in an NFL game. It\'s easy to say someone\'s an \"impact player\" when that player is playing inferior competition, especially in college. Just look at Oakland, with more former #1 picks and \"impact players\" to see that scouting this feature has no formula. Ultimately, impact players are monomoniacal, unafraid to be shackled to the seemingly one dimensional aspect of their vocation. There are a lot of \"gentlemen farmers\" in the NFL, and too many on the Saints, happy to be getting a hefty paycheck and trying to run the streak out before forced to do something else, with a sizeable nest egg to rest on. Unfortunately, there\'s no one anyone fears. That fear comes with the respect earned from punishing an opponent without mercy every down, every game. Your list has talent, but no impact.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

12-02-2004, 02:35 AM	#37
shadowdrinker_x Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 218	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft It\'s a catch 22...If we win..we lose out on higher picks..If we tank..We lose respect from within... As long as this team..just cracks some heads..Win,Lose, or Draw..Doesn\'t really matter To pick a good player in the first 2 rounds is suppose to be a given...Teams are suppose to know who they need..and how much they need them... I think most of the guys on here are like me..and sick of seeing opportunities wasted, each year, on losers...And the answer isn\'t to tank...If it happens..hey..we win..but..at least keep some Integrity...I know I have been one of the main people saying I hope we lose it all...and get top 5 picks...But..In Retrospect..I just want them to hurt people..who cares about the score...Just Kill..Let someone else clean up the mess

12-02-2004, 06:50 AM	#38
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft plaoffs not possible. The Saints have not been able to post a 6 game winniong streak since 2000. Since than with Brooks at the helm the team has only been able to muster 2 game winning streaks followed bye a loss. Except in 2002 when they one 3 games in a row twice. I just hope we don\'t get sweeped bye Tampa Bay. Tampa has not sweeped the Saints yet I would like to see this streak continue. There\'s only 5 games left. Not 6. The point is that the conference is so weak that they won\'t need a 5 game winning streak. They probably only need to win 4 of those 5 games because beating Carolina, TB, and Dallas would put the Saints ahead of each of those three contenders. They already have the head to head against the Rams. So that only leaves the Giants who are playing a rookie QB and has lost 1/2 of their defensive line. But the real question is doing this in the team\'s long term best interest? BTW I agree with the assessment that giving extended interviews to the younger players to evaluate their talent could work whether or not the Saints win or lose. We already know what the current players can or cannot do. But folks like Henderson and others are completely unknown quantities. Why not give them a chance to show what they can do. If they win, fine. But if they don\'t what damage would it do? But I bet Haslett and Loomis won\'t do it. If I were Benson I\'d demand it. SFIAH [Edited on 2/12/2004 by SaintFanInATLHELL]
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

12-02-2004, 07:16 AM	#39
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft From what I can see, there aren\'t a lot of impact players coming out in the draft this year. So, that being said, I\'d just assume spoil some holidays and take our chances when the draft rolls around, one or two spots don\'t look like they\'re going to make a hell of a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things. Plus, when players tank, they usually get injured to boot, so any players slacking run the risk of ruining their careers. Hustle, win stay healthy for a new regime. You don\'t tank with players. You tank with scheme. You tank by changing personnel. You tank by \"...giving young players a chance to shine.\" And you\'ll get hustle. You\'ll get spark. You\'ll get that 100 yard game that Stecker had in the early season. You may even win a game or two. But this is a league about talent and coaching. If you put your 2nd string talent up against others 1st string talent, it doesn\'t matter how much they try, the 1st stringers will prevail most of the time. SFIAH

12-02-2004, 07:33 AM	#40
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Now THAT I wouldn\'t mind. Once we\'re offiially eliminated lets take a look at the youngsters. Start Leisle, Mitchell, Sullivan (all 60 minutes), Will Smith, Bockwoldt, Allen (all 60 minutes), Watson, Craft, Brown, Hilton, Klingsbury, Stecker, Henderson, Gardner, and Stinchcomb. Or at least get a lot of minutes. It won\'t be TANKING the game but I can assure you the results would be the same and these youngins would get some real game time and accurate evaluation. I could live with that, easily.