Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 12:22 PM

I really like most of the players on this team, Deuce, Joe, Karney, Howard, Grant, Young, MM, Pathon, Bellamy, Mitchell, Boo, etc. I want them to walk off the field winners, not losers. A few wins down the stretch will give some of these players the confidence they need to come out of the gates next year full speed

I am still perplexed by your statements Danno. Were none of these players(with the exception of MM and Karney) on this team the last 4 years? At what point have they known what winning was? How do we know they don\'t already have a loser\'s mentality? I don\'t know what team you have been watching, but it ain\'t this one. If players have high character, they will stillw anna win despite losing seasons. Look at San Diego. How many years have they been bad? And their team is younger than ours so that \"loser\'s\" mentality for young players is hog wash. If a player has it within himself to do better, like Brees and his teammates did, they will. Teh Chargers were 4-12 last year, and Gates was on the team, so was LT and so was Brees. Also Jammer and Davis and Kiel and mainly their entire team. Where is their \"loser\'s\" mentality Since that boogey-man will strike down young players if you get a high draft pick? I am in disbelief.

WhoDat · 12-01-2004, 12:52 PM

The answer to this question is very easy - what we think doesn\'t matter. Even if it did, it wouldn\'t change the most probable of outcomes:

Haslett will try to motivate them and convince them they\'re still in it. Maybe they win a game or two, but ultimately they don\'t go anywhere but home.

I understand Danno\'s point of view about attitude, and it\'s hard to disagree. Then again, the worst possible thing right now is probably for this team to start believing. We know what happens then. 8-7, last week of the season, playoff spot on the line, Saints lose 16-13 and go... 8-8. Haslett stays - we trade every pick we have to move up and pick a DT out of Georgia who ends up being a complete slob. We sign two other guys who are have-beens or that you\'ve never heard of in the offseason, and then start hearing the hype in camp about this team really buying in to Haslett\'s new and different strategy this season. It\'ll all be different this time. Billy shows up in our 3rd preseason loss to talk about how preseason really doesn\'t matter and explains why this time the Saints will be 11-5. The season begins... there is a stretch where the Saints go 3-5 or worse (b/c they ALWAYS do under Haslett), and we end up having this exact discussion 1 year from today. Sorry, not interested. Let them think they\'re losers... they are.

Danno · 12-01-2004, 01:06 PM

I am still perplexed by your statements Danno. ... I am in disbelief.

HOW ABOUT MY 1ST COMMENT...

Sorry fellas, we\'ve got too many quitters on this team already.

WhoDat · 12-01-2004, 01:12 PM

OK - how about - what does this team need more?

A) A better attitude
B) New Coaches

You decide. I say B. If A suffers b/c of B that\'s a shame, but B should not be foresaken b/c of A.

Euphoria · 12-01-2004, 01:12 PM

I\'ll take a will smith at 18 vice a Sullivan at 6, period!

Draft is a gamble... Ryan Leaf, Sullivan, another QB we gambled on in a trade and got us nothing. Its a crap shoot. You play to win and play the cards we are delt. With good management next year and pray Randy, we\'ll be fine in the draft at 1 - 6, or 16.

[Edited on 1/12/2004 by Euphoria]

Danno · 12-01-2004, 01:13 PM

Wait, Danno do we follow the same team? You don\'t want them to have a \"quitters\" mentality? Have you been following them the last few years? What other mentality have they shown since 2000?

Would you call Deuce a quitter? Joe Horn a quitter? Bentley?
If someone says we should tank the season, I\'d assume they meant the guys who aren\'t already quitters start quitting.
WE HAVE TOO MANY QUITTERS ALREADY!!!!!!!!
Whats so frickin hard to understand about that?

Euphoria · 12-01-2004, 01:20 PM

How do you teach some of the guys we keep professionalism if we tank the season... you don\'t do it that way thats for sure.

...and I would also like to point out its also unethical.

[Edited on 1/12/2004 by Euphoria]

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 01:36 PM

I\'m a Spurs fan, always have been, so I have seen how tanking a season can help a team, i.e. the season they drafted Duncan. Robinson had surgery early in the offseason and missed the first 20 games. They stunk. So instead of having him come back and them win more, they sat him out the whole year, drafted Duncan, and two championships later it\'s all history. May not be as easy in football, but it\'s a start.

First Danno, what\'s so frickin hard to understand is that Joe, Deuce, and Bentley will play hard regardless. They always do. We still lose. Nothing has to change for them. They are pro bowl caliber players regardless. Unless you somehow think we have been winning while noone else was looking. They are good-great players and will still be at 4-12 or 12-4. Hope you can understand that. If not, again see San Diego.

Euph, to your crap shoot draft, I submit Peyton Manning, D. Mcnabb, Edge James, and I could go on and on about high draft picks who were not busts. We could argue this all day. The fact of the matter is Derrick Johnson is touted as the best lb to come out in a LONG time and Rolle one of the best cbs. That\'s a fact. Also, this team sees professionalism daily in the form of Sullivan. Real professional. Watson already has been burned missing a meeting. They have professional coaches who gameplan them into first quarter deficits every week and an ethical GM who basically threw the head coach under the bus a few weeks ago. And that\'s not to mention the professional and ethical owner who hides the books, claims poverty, blackmails the state for what he wants and calls his team worse than high schoolers. Surely wouldn\'t want to ruin this atmosphere of \"professionalism\" and \"ethics.\" Sometimes I think people aren\'t really watching or paying attention to this team at all.

[Edited on 1/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

saintswhodi · 12-01-2004, 02:36 PM

And before everyone gets in a huff over this,

Sometimes I think people aren\'t really watching or paying attention to this team at all.

I was really just saying I feel like so many of you are making decisions with your heart and not your head. Of course you love this team, we all do, and noone WANTS them to lose, but look at the record and the horrible collapses late season the last few years. Something has to give. We are not going anywhere this season. What\'s so terrible about taking a shot at a franchise defensive player, where we all agree we need the most help? There are two of them in this draft and we aren\'t that far from having a shot.

Of the two teams with worse record, Miami needs a rb in the worst way, and there are good ones in the draft, and San Fran needs a franchise qb. They already have good linebackers. They may go defense, but I doubt it. Cle, Kansas City and Washington all have 3 wins, but guaranteed they will all win at least two more, and if not Cle definitely needs a franchise qb, Wash\'s defense is already stout, and Kansas City will definitely look D. I like our adds at getting that franchise defensive player this year. Certainly we will have a new staff, which WILL NOT happen if this team wins out. Odds are they will not be as inept at drafting as this one. All in all, I can understand you guys wanting to win, but noone has told me how that helps us at all. We see what happens when this team wins. They get full of themselves and blunder. It\'s time to change that also.

Danno · 12-01-2004, 03:04 PM

First Danno, what\'s so frickin hard to understand is that Joe, Deuce, and Bentley will play hard regardless. They always do. We still lose. Nothing has to change for them. They are pro bowl caliber players regardless. Unless you somehow think we have been winning while noone else was looking. They are good-great players and will still be at 4-12 or 12-4. Hope you can understand that. If not, again see San Diego.

So WHO are you suggesting should TANK the remaining games?
The guys that are already quitters or the guys who aren\'t?
I don\'t understand your point at all. Maybe I\'m missing something here.
I think the meaning of \"tank\" is to intentionally lose the game.
If we should intentionally lose, who should be a part of throwing the game?

12-01-2004, 12:22 PM	#21
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft I really like most of the players on this team, Deuce, Joe, Karney, Howard, Grant, Young, MM, Pathon, Bellamy, Mitchell, Boo, etc. I want them to walk off the field winners, not losers. A few wins down the stretch will give some of these players the confidence they need to come out of the gates next year full speed I am still perplexed by your statements Danno. Were none of these players(with the exception of MM and Karney) on this team the last 4 years? At what point have they known what winning was? How do we know they don\'t already have a loser\'s mentality? I don\'t know what team you have been watching, but it ain\'t this one. If players have high character, they will stillw anna win despite losing seasons. Look at San Diego. How many years have they been bad? And their team is younger than ours so that \"loser\'s\" mentality for young players is hog wash. If a player has it within himself to do better, like Brees and his teammates did, they will. Teh Chargers were 4-12 last year, and Gates was on the team, so was LT and so was Brees. Also Jammer and Davis and Kiel and mainly their entire team. Where is their \"loser\'s\" mentality Since that boogey-man will strike down young players if you get a high draft pick? I am in disbelief.

12-01-2004, 12:52 PM	#22
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft The answer to this question is very easy - what we think doesn\'t matter. Even if it did, it wouldn\'t change the most probable of outcomes: Haslett will try to motivate them and convince them they\'re still in it. Maybe they win a game or two, but ultimately they don\'t go anywhere but home. I understand Danno\'s point of view about attitude, and it\'s hard to disagree. Then again, the worst possible thing right now is probably for this team to start believing. We know what happens then. 8-7, last week of the season, playoff spot on the line, Saints lose 16-13 and go... 8-8. Haslett stays - we trade every pick we have to move up and pick a DT out of Georgia who ends up being a complete slob. We sign two other guys who are have-beens or that you\'ve never heard of in the offseason, and then start hearing the hype in camp about this team really buying in to Haslett\'s new and different strategy this season. It\'ll all be different this time. Billy shows up in our 3rd preseason loss to talk about how preseason really doesn\'t matter and explains why this time the Saints will be 11-5. The season begins... there is a stretch where the Saints go 3-5 or worse (b/c they ALWAYS do under Haslett), and we end up having this exact discussion 1 year from today. Sorry, not interested. Let them think they\'re losers... they are.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

12-01-2004, 01:06 PM	#23
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft I am still perplexed by your statements Danno. ... I am in disbelief. HOW ABOUT MY 1ST COMMENT... Sorry fellas, we\'ve got too many quitters on this team already.

12-01-2004, 01:12 PM	#24
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft OK - how about - what does this team need more? A) A better attitude B) New Coaches You decide. I say B. If A suffers b/c of B that\'s a shame, but B should not be foresaken b/c of A.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

12-01-2004, 01:12 PM	#25
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft I\'ll take a will smith at 18 vice a Sullivan at 6, period! Draft is a gamble... Ryan Leaf, Sullivan, another QB we gambled on in a trade and got us nothing. Its a crap shoot. You play to win and play the cards we are delt. With good management next year and pray Randy, we\'ll be fine in the draft at 1 - 6, or 16. [Edited on 1/12/2004 by Euphoria]

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12-01-2004, 01:13 PM	#26
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft Wait, Danno do we follow the same team? You don\'t want them to have a \"quitters\" mentality? Have you been following them the last few years? What other mentality have they shown since 2000? Would you call Deuce a quitter? Joe Horn a quitter? Bentley? If someone says we should tank the season, I\'d assume they meant the guys who aren\'t already quitters start quitting. WE HAVE TOO MANY QUITTERS ALREADY!!!!!!!! Whats so frickin hard to understand about that?

12-01-2004, 01:20 PM	#27
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft How do you teach some of the guys we keep professionalism if we tank the season... you don\'t do it that way thats for sure. ...and I would also like to point out its also unethical. [Edited on 1/12/2004 by Euphoria]

12-01-2004, 01:36 PM	#28
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft I\'m a Spurs fan, always have been, so I have seen how tanking a season can help a team, i.e. the season they drafted Duncan. Robinson had surgery early in the offseason and missed the first 20 games. They stunk. So instead of having him come back and them win more, they sat him out the whole year, drafted Duncan, and two championships later it\'s all history. May not be as easy in football, but it\'s a start. First Danno, what\'s so frickin hard to understand is that Joe, Deuce, and Bentley will play hard regardless. They always do. We still lose. Nothing has to change for them. They are pro bowl caliber players regardless. Unless you somehow think we have been winning while noone else was looking. They are good-great players and will still be at 4-12 or 12-4. Hope you can understand that. If not, again see San Diego. Euph, to your crap shoot draft, I submit Peyton Manning, D. Mcnabb, Edge James, and I could go on and on about high draft picks who were not busts. We could argue this all day. The fact of the matter is Derrick Johnson is touted as the best lb to come out in a LONG time and Rolle one of the best cbs. That\'s a fact. Also, this team sees professionalism daily in the form of Sullivan. Real professional. Watson already has been burned missing a meeting. They have professional coaches who gameplan them into first quarter deficits every week and an ethical GM who basically threw the head coach under the bus a few weeks ago. And that\'s not to mention the professional and ethical owner who hides the books, claims poverty, blackmails the state for what he wants and calls his team worse than high schoolers. Surely wouldn\'t want to ruin this atmosphere of \"professionalism\" and \"ethics.\" Sometimes I think people aren\'t really watching or paying attention to this team at all. [Edited on 1/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

12-01-2004, 02:36 PM	#29
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft And before everyone gets in a huff over this, Sometimes I think people aren\'t really watching or paying attention to this team at all. I was really just saying I feel like so many of you are making decisions with your heart and not your head. Of course you love this team, we all do, and noone WANTS them to lose, but look at the record and the horrible collapses late season the last few years. Something has to give. We are not going anywhere this season. What\'s so terrible about taking a shot at a franchise defensive player, where we all agree we need the most help? There are two of them in this draft and we aren\'t that far from having a shot. Of the two teams with worse record, Miami needs a rb in the worst way, and there are good ones in the draft, and San Fran needs a franchise qb. They already have good linebackers. They may go defense, but I doubt it. Cle, Kansas City and Washington all have 3 wins, but guaranteed they will all win at least two more, and if not Cle definitely needs a franchise qb, Wash\'s defense is already stout, and Kansas City will definitely look D. I like our adds at getting that franchise defensive player this year. Certainly we will have a new staff, which WILL NOT happen if this team wins out. Odds are they will not be as inept at drafting as this one. All in all, I can understand you guys wanting to win, but noone has told me how that helps us at all. We see what happens when this team wins. They get full of themselves and blunder. It\'s time to change that also.

12-01-2004, 03:04 PM	#30
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Question of the week: Strive for playoffs or fold for draft First Danno, what\'s so frickin hard to understand is that Joe, Deuce, and Bentley will play hard regardless. They always do. We still lose. Nothing has to change for them. They are pro bowl caliber players regardless. Unless you somehow think we have been winning while noone else was looking. They are good-great players and will still be at 4-12 or 12-4. Hope you can understand that. If not, again see San Diego. So WHO are you suggesting should TANK the remaining games? The guys that are already quitters or the guys who aren\'t? I don\'t understand your point at all. Maybe I\'m missing something here. I think the meaning of \"tank\" is to intentionally lose the game. If we should intentionally lose, who should be a part of throwing the game?