Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost'

blackangold · 12-27-2014, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

It says to me that the guy probably isn't ready but he thinks he is, kinda' like the WR (forgot his name already, :shrug) that they just cut and it's everybody's fault but his own for his lack of playing time, . The one thing it seems they forget to explain along the way to quite a few of these new breed of NFL players is how to be an adult, :shrug.

Also agree with the theory that he might have raw potential and rather than ruin his confidence by burning him out in a no-win situation, they'll take advantage of his rookie status to save him for later. His little whine here does kinda' imply he lacks the maturity to be able to recover from a setback so they might want to handle him with kid gloves & save him the trouble of traumatizing him, .

If it was up to me, I'd put a pair of ice skates on his behind and make him skate with a Junior B team in the off season ... put some hair on his chest, .

The whole confidence thing is a load of crap. You have it or you don't and you sure as hell don't get it by not playing. If you really want to make something of it; it sounds like they were more detrimental to his confidence by letting car salesman pass him up.

If it were up to me I would put him on Mike Evans and see what he has now rather than betting our cards on him starting next year only come to find out he sucks, once again we would have no #2 CB.

SaintsBro · 12-27-2014, 12:23 PM

This reminds me A LOT of Chris Ivory before he left. Remember his "nobody tells me anything" quote, about the coaches not talking to him, when he got benched and went into a black hole? He had the same frustrations in almost the same words. And remember how we've all seen this before -- if Payton turns on a player, it's like he flips a switch, and you are a dead man walking, you become invisible to him, he just looks right through you like you're not even there.

I think SJB be gone. I don't think you ever come back from this, once Sean Payton tells you to Talk To The Hand and goes into ignore mode.

blackangold · 12-27-2014, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

This reminds me A LOT of Chris Ivory before he left. Remember his "nobody tells me anything" quote, about the coaches not talking to him, when he got benched and went into a black hole? He had the same frustrations in almost the same words. And remember how we've all seen this before -- if Payton turns on a player, it's like he flips a switch, and you are a dead man walking, you become invisible to him, he just looks right through you like you're not even there.

I think SJB be gone. I don't think you ever come back from this, once Sean Payton tells you to Talk To The Hand and goes into ignore mode.

Such a shame...

Seems like this organization is building a poor reputation with players. The Sproles situation, SJBs lack of communication and the indecent you mention don't paint a pretty picture.

If you have a project player that you are hoping to mold the absolute worse thing he can feel is left in the dark with no direction. What kind of a player are you creating if you don't lay out your plans for him... I think this off-season will be very telling on the direction of the team, because aside from the losing record this year there are numerous things that concern me about the management of this organization.

I think ill be more upset if the guy comes out and balls, it be for us or another team it's going to make this staff look bad.

SaintsBro · 12-27-2014, 12:36 PM

Also it's PURE SPECULATION on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if there was some type of backstage drama with the coaches about this guy, that we don't know about -- maybe someone on the coaching or scouting staff wanted him badly, and someone else didn't, or maybe they disagree about him and his potential from day one, on the team.

Maybe there was a lot of discussion behind the scenes about his pick, about his skills, and now maybe the poor guy is being used as a scapegoat for some other element of struggle or dissension among the coaching or scouting staff, behind the scenes.

Just imagine if they talked about this controversial draft pick, among themselves, as much as we talked about it here -- I would not be AT ALL surprised if the guy has certain people in the Saints organization that didn't like the pick and want to see him fail, so they can say "I told you so" -- and certain people who want him to succeed, to save their hineys, and maybe some type of battle is going on over him, behind the scenes.

Remember, it's not like every single guy that the team picks, is going to be a unanimous harmonious choice among all the scouts and coaches. They can disagree, just like we do here....He may be Ryan's guy, or Loomis's guy, or some particular scout's guy, maybe even Payton's guy -- we just really don't know who in the war room was pushing for him... But if somebody in there on the coaching staff really didn't like him, this theory would explain the mysterious roadblock in him seeing the field.

Rugby Saint II · 12-27-2014, 12:42 PM

We teach rookies the fundamentals in rugby practice.......but we put it together in games where players get the experience. With experience comes confidence. With confidence comes better play.

Rugby is a very technical sport and everyone is over whelmed when they start playing. The light just comes on differently to different positions and to different players. A rookie may play an 80 minute game but he will remember only a small portion of that.........the things he learned in the game whether it was from doing things right or wrong. If we learn from our mistakes and from the things we do right then we are on the right path.

WhoDatFan26 · 12-27-2014, 01:59 PM

I don't believe the issue is w/SJB. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I will wait to see what he gives us next season. He has a skill set that you hope to find in most guys.

Rell&Gold · 12-27-2014, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Or perhaps he doesn't know where to be and when, and is so raw he hasn't master CB techniques, which are numerous.

IIRC CB is one of the hardest positions to master technique wise in the NFL along with QB and WR.

I'm just hoping that the talent is there, he just happened to be much more raw than the coaches originally thought.

None of our cb's have mastered technique I see breakdowns in everybody's technique week out consistently especially when it comes to tracking the ball and getting their head around, it wouldn't hurt to see where he's stands in comparison this Sunday to those two neither Frederick or Dixon are ready for the #2 spot if you ask me (nobody asked me)

dizzle88 · 12-27-2014, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

None of our cb's have mastered technique I see breakdowns in everybody's technique week out consistently especially when it comes to tracking the ball and getting their head around, it wouldn't hurt to see where he's stands in comparison this Sunday to those two neither Frederick or Dixon are ready for the #2 spot if you ask me (nobody asked me)

Our DB's don't need to turn to locate the ball, they are already 5 steps behind the receiver when it arrives lol.

vpheughan · 12-27-2014, 02:45 PM

Put the kid in and see what he can do against the other kids. No kidding!

SloMotion · 12-28-2014, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

The whole confidence thing is a load of crap. You have it or you don't and you sure as hell don't get it by not playing. If you really want to make something of it; it sounds like they were more detrimental to his confidence by letting car salesman pass him up.

If it were up to me I would put him on Mike Evans and see what he has now rather than betting our cards on him starting next year only come to find out he sucks, once again we would have no #2 CB.

I would too, hold his feet to the fire and see what he's got, :shrug. Sink or swim, IMO. Only problem is, the NFL is a million/billion dollar business and when you make a decision as a coach (with the exception of Mike Smith), you get it right or you might be gone. Game time is not necessarily the time you want to be proving out a player's playing potential ... you gotta' wonder what SJB has shown them up to this point that would prompt them to bring in less talented (allegedly) guys to take his spot. I do and gotta' figure he's displayed some kind of characteristics that would leave the coaching staff to figure he's not ready to accept failure at the NFL level and if you care about your guys, you do what's necessary to ensure their success. In SJB's case, that probably means sitting him to avoid having him get his butt burned every other play. :shrug.

20-30-40yrs ago I would have agreed with you about the confidence crap, but today's NFL athlete has a different mindset. It's like they're all divas, so sensitive, you can't critique 'em or raise your voice or traumatize 'em or make 'em feel bad about themselves, put 'em in a situation where they can't be successful, et... it's like coaching AYSO soccer for crissake,

.

I'm not gonna' put too much of this on the coaching staff, even though I do recognize the comment on how Payton may have the tendency to isolate a player that isn't working out. Are we dealing with men here or are we dealing with 12yr old soccer players? 52, 51, 50 or whatever other players on the team seem to be able to figure out what's going on, what's SJB's major malfunction? Just sayin', :shrug.

Good thread though,

... I'm starting to see what may have been the cause of the Saints difficulties this season. JMO.

12-27-2014, 10:31 AM	#31
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' Originally Posted by SloMotion It says to me that the guy probably isn't ready but he thinks he is, kinda' like the WR (forgot his name already, :shrug) that they just cut and it's everybody's fault but his own for his lack of playing time, . The one thing it seems they forget to explain along the way to quite a few of these new breed of NFL players is how to be an adult, :shrug. Also agree with the theory that he might have raw potential and rather than ruin his confidence by burning him out in a no-win situation, they'll take advantage of his rookie status to save him for later. His little whine here does kinda' imply he lacks the maturity to be able to recover from a setback so they might want to handle him with kid gloves & save him the trouble of traumatizing him, . If it was up to me, I'd put a pair of ice skates on his behind and make him skate with a Junior B team in the off season ... put some hair on his chest, . The whole confidence thing is a load of crap. You have it or you don't and you sure as hell don't get it by not playing. If you really want to make something of it; it sounds like they were more detrimental to his confidence by letting car salesman pass him up. If it were up to me I would put him on Mike Evans and see what he has now rather than betting our cards on him starting next year only come to find out he sucks, once again we would have no #2 CB.

12-27-2014, 12:23 PM	#32
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' This reminds me A LOT of Chris Ivory before he left. Remember his "nobody tells me anything" quote, about the coaches not talking to him, when he got benched and went into a black hole? He had the same frustrations in almost the same words. And remember how we've all seen this before -- if Payton turns on a player, it's like he flips a switch, and you are a dead man walking, you become invisible to him, he just looks right through you like you're not even there. I think SJB be gone. I don't think you ever come back from this, once Sean Payton tells you to Talk To The Hand and goes into ignore mode. MarchingOn likes this.

12-27-2014, 12:34 PM	#33
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' Originally Posted by SaintsBro This reminds me A LOT of Chris Ivory before he left. Remember his "nobody tells me anything" quote, about the coaches not talking to him, when he got benched and went into a black hole? He had the same frustrations in almost the same words. And remember how we've all seen this before -- if Payton turns on a player, it's like he flips a switch, and you are a dead man walking, you become invisible to him, he just looks right through you like you're not even there. I think SJB be gone. I don't think you ever come back from this, once Sean Payton tells you to Talk To The Hand and goes into ignore mode. Such a shame... Seems like this organization is building a poor reputation with players. The Sproles situation, SJBs lack of communication and the indecent you mention don't paint a pretty picture. If you have a project player that you are hoping to mold the absolute worse thing he can feel is left in the dark with no direction. What kind of a player are you creating if you don't lay out your plans for him... I think this off-season will be very telling on the direction of the team, because aside from the losing record this year there are numerous things that concern me about the management of this organization. I think ill be more upset if the guy comes out and balls, it be for us or another team it's going to make this staff look bad.

12-27-2014, 12:36 PM	#34
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' Also it's PURE SPECULATION on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if there was some type of backstage drama with the coaches about this guy, that we don't know about -- maybe someone on the coaching or scouting staff wanted him badly, and someone else didn't, or maybe they disagree about him and his potential from day one, on the team. Maybe there was a lot of discussion behind the scenes about his pick, about his skills, and now maybe the poor guy is being used as a scapegoat for some other element of struggle or dissension among the coaching or scouting staff, behind the scenes. Just imagine if they talked about this controversial draft pick, among themselves, as much as we talked about it here -- I would not be AT ALL surprised if the guy has certain people in the Saints organization that didn't like the pick and want to see him fail, so they can say "I told you so" -- and certain people who want him to succeed, to save their hineys, and maybe some type of battle is going on over him, behind the scenes. Remember, it's not like every single guy that the team picks, is going to be a unanimous harmonious choice among all the scouts and coaches. They can disagree, just like we do here....He may be Ryan's guy, or Loomis's guy, or some particular scout's guy, maybe even Payton's guy -- we just really don't know who in the war room was pushing for him... But if somebody in there on the coaching staff really didn't like him, this theory would explain the mysterious roadblock in him seeing the field. hagan714, Barry from MS and blackangold like this.

12-27-2014, 12:42 PM	#35
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,043	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' We teach rookies the fundamentals in rugby practice.......but we put it together in games where players get the experience. With experience comes confidence. With confidence comes better play. Rugby is a very technical sport and everyone is over whelmed when they start playing. The light just comes on differently to different positions and to different players. A rookie may play an 80 minute game but he will remember only a small portion of that.........the things he learned in the game whether it was from doing things right or wrong. If we learn from our mistakes and from the things we do right then we are on the right path. hagan714 likes this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

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12-27-2014, 01:59 PM	#36
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' I don't believe the issue is w/SJB. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I will wait to see what he gives us next season. He has a skill set that you hope to find in most guys. hagan714 likes this.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

12-27-2014, 02:23 PM	#37
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' Originally Posted by Danno Or perhaps he doesn't know where to be and when, and is so raw he hasn't master CB techniques, which are numerous. IIRC CB is one of the hardest positions to master technique wise in the NFL along with QB and WR. I'm just hoping that the talent is there, he just happened to be much more raw than the coaches originally thought. None of our cb's have mastered technique I see breakdowns in everybody's technique week out consistently especially when it comes to tracking the ball and getting their head around, it wouldn't hurt to see where he's stands in comparison this Sunday to those two neither Frederick or Dixon are ready for the #2 spot if you ask me (nobody asked me) brees84 likes this.

12-27-2014, 02:29 PM	#38
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,118	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' Originally Posted by Rell&Gold None of our cb's have mastered technique I see breakdowns in everybody's technique week out consistently especially when it comes to tracking the ball and getting their head around, it wouldn't hurt to see where he's stands in comparison this Sunday to those two neither Frederick or Dixon are ready for the #2 spot if you ask me (nobody asked me) Our DB's don't need to turn to locate the ball, they are already 5 steps behind the receiver when it arrives lol.

12-27-2014, 02:45 PM	#39
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,515	Re: Lewis: Saints cornerback Jean-Baptiste waits to take active role, says: 'I can’t figure out what’s going on...I'm feeling lost' Put the kid in and see what he can do against the other kids. No kidding!
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,515

12-28-2014, 04:32 AM	#40
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Originally Posted by blackangold The whole confidence thing is a load of crap. You have it or you don't and you sure as hell don't get it by not playing. If you really want to make something of it; it sounds like they were more detrimental to his confidence by letting car salesman pass him up. If it were up to me I would put him on Mike Evans and see what he has now rather than betting our cards on him starting next year only come to find out he sucks, once again we would have no #2 CB. I would too, hold his feet to the fire and see what he's got, :shrug. Sink or swim, IMO. Only problem is, the NFL is a million/billion dollar business and when you make a decision as a coach (with the exception of Mike Smith), you get it right or you might be gone. Game time is not necessarily the time you want to be proving out a player's playing potential ... you gotta' wonder what SJB has shown them up to this point that would prompt them to bring in less talented (allegedly) guys to take his spot. I do and gotta' figure he's displayed some kind of characteristics that would leave the coaching staff to figure he's not ready to accept failure at the NFL level and if you care about your guys, you do what's necessary to ensure their success. In SJB's case, that probably means sitting him to avoid having him get his butt burned every other play. :shrug. 20-30-40yrs ago I would have agreed with you about the confidence crap, but today's NFL athlete has a different mindset. It's like they're all divas, so sensitive, you can't critique 'em or raise your voice or traumatize 'em or make 'em feel bad about themselves, put 'em in a situation where they can't be successful, et... it's like coaching AYSO soccer for crissake, . I'm not gonna' put too much of this on the coaching staff, even though I do recognize the comment on how Payton may have the tendency to isolate a player that isn't working out. Are we dealing with men here or are we dealing with 12yr old soccer players? 52, 51, 50 or whatever other players on the team seem to be able to figure out what's going on, what's SJB's major malfunction? Just sayin', :shrug. Good thread though, ... I'm starting to see what may have been the cause of the Saints difficulties this season. JMO. hagan714 likes this.

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