Now THIS is an interesting mock

4saintspirit · 01-13-2005, 02:09 PM

My question would be, how do we determin what is a \"Bad\" throw or maybe how do we determin what is a catchable pass? Tom Landry once said, \"If you can touch it, you can catch it.\" I don\'t know if I\'d go THAT far, but I\'d scare the hell outta that hole! LOL

Examples of a bad throw -- the backwards ones, the ones into the backs of the heads of the OL, the ones into the hands of the defenders, the ones into the line, the ones into the ground, the ones into the wrong spot (although who knows if that\'s AB\'s or the receivers fault)

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 02:16 PM

I completely disagree Whodi. You make it seem like Brooks is the reason the Saints don\'t win. I think the poor showing by our defense the last few years has cost us FAR more W\'s than Brooks. He\'s brought the team back and won shootouts etc etc. He can\'t win \'em all man, but he\'d damn sure win more if our defense wasn\'t so frappin\' aweful.

This is where the mix up is saintfan. I took a microcosm of the whole season, and condensed it into the last 4 games all wins. SO in no way am I saying we can\'t win with Brooks. We obviously have or we would be 0-16. What I said is, we win DESPITE him. Now if you look at the last 4 WINS, Dallas game, 68 or so passer rating(no pressure by the way), Tampa game 122 passer rating(hot 4th quarter), Falcons game 60 something passer rating(starters out for Falcs) Panthers game 100 passer rating(best all around game I have seen from Leon). So as I did before, I will compare these 4 WINS to a 5 day work week. You get 3 1/2 days of crap, 1/2 an outstanding day, and 1 full day of just doing what shoulda been done all along. So again, I am not sayign we can\'t win with him, cause we do win some, but most at least half the time it appears we win DESPITE him. Now how much worse is the DESPITE part when we lose? That\'s when we get to blame everyone BUT Leon. If he has a 68 passer rating and we lose, the line, receivers and everyone else is blamed. But 68 passer rating in a win, \"he just had a bad game,\" Huh?

saintfan · 01-13-2005, 03:16 PM

What I said is, we win DESPITE him

Has Brooks had bad games the team has had to overcome in order to win? Certainly...but same goes for Deuce, the line, the defense, the coach, etc. Further, I think other teams have to overcome bad games by their QB\'s, o-lines, defenses, coaches, etc. Your focus seems to be on Brooks. His boneheaded play at times can be frustrating, but he\'s no where near the liability you are making him out to be...at least not in my opinion.

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 03:44 PM

but he\'s no where near the liability you are making him out to be...at least not in my opinion.

Then this is where we shall have to disagree. If a qb can play as horribly as Brooks has in wins where everyone around him DOES do their jobs, I shudder to think about the games where he has to be the one to carry the team. There are times when you need your qb to carry you cause other things aren\'t working, the only time I saw a semblence of this was the Rams game. But, we would have lost that game had Aeneas Williams intercepted another terrible red zone pass from Brooks instead of tipping it to Joe Horn. So even when Brooks tried to carry the team, plain luck got them to a win. The Rams only had 6 INTs all year thank goodness or we woulda lost that one too. So I just don\'t want an unreliable ego maniac around anymore. We will just have to disagree.

WhoDat · 01-13-2005, 04:00 PM

Those last 4 you just mentioned, Whoodi, are entirely represntative of AB, IMO. QB rating of 68, 122, 60, `00. Up, down, up, down, up, down.... Since the defense played well in all of those games, I guess we\'ll have to blame the Dallas and ATL poor performances on the line (uh, don\'t remember there be a ton of pressure in either and I was at one of them), the WRs, and Deuce.

I\'m sure some will argue it\'s just two games, and I\'m making a mountain out of a mole hill. But I bet if you look back over time you\'ll see a lot of the same from AB. His mid-80s QB rating may seem respectible, but when it comes via extremes - a real good game followed by a real bad one, it isn\'t hard to see with the Saints offense is so up and down... b/c of the line, WRs, and RB, of course!

4saintspirit · 01-13-2005, 04:30 PM

I have to agree with everyone in a way --- AB is terribly inconsistent -- not just from game to game but from play to play. What is worst is that most of his mediocore games are purely from 4th quarter stats == meaning he plays horrible in the first half etc. Its hard to justify his salary. Having said that I have to jump to the other side of the fence and say that I think we need much more before we try to address a QB situation. AB has a whole lot of talent and personally I would like to see a decent QB coach be added to the team. I have to think that most of AB\'s problems are mental and ego. I say -- give him one more year --- finish the rest of the talent gap fixing (CB,LB and OL) then after next year dump his sorry ass.

WhoDat · 01-13-2005, 04:35 PM

Decent QB coach? His QB coach is being interviewed for OC positions. Sheppard can\'t be that bad if Billick is interested enough to let him run the show. Just my opinion.

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 04:37 PM

Also Sheppard can\'t be that bad if Bulger and Delhomme can go on to be starters elsewhere. One annually in the playoffs and one hitting the Superbowl in his first year, and the Rams have the same problems we have. Bad o-line, dropped passes, bad defense.

ScottyRo · 01-13-2005, 05:11 PM

Whodi, back to your questioning me about Brooks\' winning 10 games. Brooks won 9 in \'02 before the three game slide at the end of the year. I am still adamant that he played well enough against Carolina to win the game and it was basically given away by our WRs and TEs. That would have, SHOULD HAVE, been 10. I think he is capable of winning ten, but I will go on record as saying he\'d probably cost us the other 6 with dumb mistakes.

WhoDat, after DT, LB, T, S & WR, then QB if we\'re talking about starters. We definitely need more from our backups at the QB position as far as potential to become a starter that alone may make this an area of need on our team as high as top 3. I think you\'re dead on about QB being our 5-7 most pressing need otherwise.

Lastly, I wouldn\'t give Sheppard too much credit for those QBs. Was he even here when Jake was? Did Bulger spend more than training camp on the this team? I really don\'t know the answers to those but I don\'t think so.

saintswhodi · 01-13-2005, 05:16 PM

Brooks won 9 in \'02 before the three game slide at the end of the year

So in essence, since Brooks won 9 games in \'02, then he is also responsible for the 7 losses and the 3 game slide right? Cause he can\'t possibly win 9 games and then ride the bench in the 7 losses? SO he has NEVER own 10 games right. That is like me saying it is unquestionable that Peyton Manning will win a Superbowl. Hasn\'t happened so it can be questioned. The only things that are unquestionable in football are things thathave already happened. It is unquestionable this team has not won 10 games in a season with Brooks as the full time starter. That is unquestionable.

And you may be right on about Shepperd, but I gotta agree with WhoDat. If he is interviewing for moves up to OC, he\'s gotta be doing something right, right? I am shocked he gets interviewed with how inconsistent Leon is, but it\'s gotta be something and all I could think of was Delhomme and bulger being successful after having been with the Saints. But I really don\'t knowif Shepperd touched either one.

[Edited on 13/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

01-13-2005, 02:09 PM	#61
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Now THIS is an interesting mock My question would be, how do we determin what is a \"Bad\" throw or maybe how do we determin what is a catchable pass? Tom Landry once said, \"If you can touch it, you can catch it.\" I don\'t know if I\'d go THAT far, but I\'d scare the hell outta that hole! LOL Examples of a bad throw -- the backwards ones, the ones into the backs of the heads of the OL, the ones into the hands of the defenders, the ones into the line, the ones into the ground, the ones into the wrong spot (although who knows if that\'s AB\'s or the receivers fault)
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

01-13-2005, 02:16 PM	#62
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Now THIS is an interesting mock I completely disagree Whodi. You make it seem like Brooks is the reason the Saints don\'t win. I think the poor showing by our defense the last few years has cost us FAR more W\'s than Brooks. He\'s brought the team back and won shootouts etc etc. He can\'t win \'em all man, but he\'d damn sure win more if our defense wasn\'t so frappin\' aweful. This is where the mix up is saintfan. I took a microcosm of the whole season, and condensed it into the last 4 games all wins. SO in no way am I saying we can\'t win with Brooks. We obviously have or we would be 0-16. What I said is, we win DESPITE him. Now if you look at the last 4 WINS, Dallas game, 68 or so passer rating(no pressure by the way), Tampa game 122 passer rating(hot 4th quarter), Falcons game 60 something passer rating(starters out for Falcs) Panthers game 100 passer rating(best all around game I have seen from Leon). So as I did before, I will compare these 4 WINS to a 5 day work week. You get 3 1/2 days of crap, 1/2 an outstanding day, and 1 full day of just doing what shoulda been done all along. So again, I am not sayign we can\'t win with him, cause we do win some, but most at least half the time it appears we win DESPITE him. Now how much worse is the DESPITE part when we lose? That\'s when we get to blame everyone BUT Leon. If he has a 68 passer rating and we lose, the line, receivers and everyone else is blamed. But 68 passer rating in a win, \"he just had a bad game,\" Huh?

01-13-2005, 03:16 PM	#63
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Now THIS is an interesting mock What I said is, we win DESPITE him Has Brooks had bad games the team has had to overcome in order to win? Certainly...but same goes for Deuce, the line, the defense, the coach, etc. Further, I think other teams have to overcome bad games by their QB\'s, o-lines, defenses, coaches, etc. Your focus seems to be on Brooks. His boneheaded play at times can be frustrating, but he\'s no where near the liability you are making him out to be...at least not in my opinion.

01-13-2005, 03:44 PM	#64
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Now THIS is an interesting mock but he\'s no where near the liability you are making him out to be...at least not in my opinion. Then this is where we shall have to disagree. If a qb can play as horribly as Brooks has in wins where everyone around him DOES do their jobs, I shudder to think about the games where he has to be the one to carry the team. There are times when you need your qb to carry you cause other things aren\'t working, the only time I saw a semblence of this was the Rams game. But, we would have lost that game had Aeneas Williams intercepted another terrible red zone pass from Brooks instead of tipping it to Joe Horn. So even when Brooks tried to carry the team, plain luck got them to a win. The Rams only had 6 INTs all year thank goodness or we woulda lost that one too. So I just don\'t want an unreliable ego maniac around anymore. We will just have to disagree.

01-13-2005, 04:00 PM	#65
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Now THIS is an interesting mock Those last 4 you just mentioned, Whoodi, are entirely represntative of AB, IMO. QB rating of 68, 122, 60, `00. Up, down, up, down, up, down.... Since the defense played well in all of those games, I guess we\'ll have to blame the Dallas and ATL poor performances on the line (uh, don\'t remember there be a ton of pressure in either and I was at one of them), the WRs, and Deuce. I\'m sure some will argue it\'s just two games, and I\'m making a mountain out of a mole hill. But I bet if you look back over time you\'ll see a lot of the same from AB. His mid-80s QB rating may seem respectible, but when it comes via extremes - a real good game followed by a real bad one, it isn\'t hard to see with the Saints offense is so up and down... b/c of the line, WRs, and RB, of course!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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01-13-2005, 04:30 PM	#66
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Now THIS is an interesting mock I have to agree with everyone in a way --- AB is terribly inconsistent -- not just from game to game but from play to play. What is worst is that most of his mediocore games are purely from 4th quarter stats == meaning he plays horrible in the first half etc. Its hard to justify his salary. Having said that I have to jump to the other side of the fence and say that I think we need much more before we try to address a QB situation. AB has a whole lot of talent and personally I would like to see a decent QB coach be added to the team. I have to think that most of AB\'s problems are mental and ego. I say -- give him one more year --- finish the rest of the talent gap fixing (CB,LB and OL) then after next year dump his sorry ass.
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	\"I have a photographic memory -- I just don\'t have any film.\"

01-13-2005, 04:35 PM	#67
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Now THIS is an interesting mock Decent QB coach? His QB coach is being interviewed for OC positions. Sheppard can\'t be that bad if Billick is interested enough to let him run the show. Just my opinion.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

01-13-2005, 04:37 PM	#68
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Now THIS is an interesting mock Also Sheppard can\'t be that bad if Bulger and Delhomme can go on to be starters elsewhere. One annually in the playoffs and one hitting the Superbowl in his first year, and the Rams have the same problems we have. Bad o-line, dropped passes, bad defense.

01-13-2005, 05:11 PM	#69
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Now THIS is an interesting mock Whodi, back to your questioning me about Brooks\' winning 10 games. Brooks won 9 in \'02 before the three game slide at the end of the year. I am still adamant that he played well enough against Carolina to win the game and it was basically given away by our WRs and TEs. That would have, SHOULD HAVE, been 10. I think he is capable of winning ten, but I will go on record as saying he\'d probably cost us the other 6 with dumb mistakes. WhoDat, after DT, LB, T, S & WR, then QB if we\'re talking about starters. We definitely need more from our backups at the QB position as far as potential to become a starter that alone may make this an area of need on our team as high as top 3. I think you\'re dead on about QB being our 5-7 most pressing need otherwise. Lastly, I wouldn\'t give Sheppard too much credit for those QBs. Was he even here when Jake was? Did Bulger spend more than training camp on the this team? I really don\'t know the answers to those but I don\'t think so.

01-13-2005, 05:16 PM	#70
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Now THIS is an interesting mock Brooks won 9 in \'02 before the three game slide at the end of the year So in essence, since Brooks won 9 games in \'02, then he is also responsible for the 7 losses and the 3 game slide right? Cause he can\'t possibly win 9 games and then ride the bench in the 7 losses? SO he has NEVER own 10 games right. That is like me saying it is unquestionable that Peyton Manning will win a Superbowl. Hasn\'t happened so it can be questioned. The only things that are unquestionable in football are things thathave already happened. It is unquestionable this team has not won 10 games in a season with Brooks as the full time starter. That is unquestionable. And you may be right on about Shepperd, but I gotta agree with WhoDat. If he is interviewing for moves up to OC, he\'s gotta be doing something right, right? I am shocked he gets interviewed with how inconsistent Leon is, but it\'s gotta be something and all I could think of was Delhomme and bulger being successful after having been with the Saints. But I really don\'t knowif Shepperd touched either one. [Edited on 13/1/2005 by saintswhodi]