QB only

RDOX · 01-30-2005, 11:12 AM

Whodi, the funny thing is that if I were to come in here and use AB\'s stats to help argue how good he is, you\'d quickly refer to the team\'s record and say something like \"he\'s still a .500 QB\". Yet you wanna use Daunte\'s MVP-like stats to try to convince me how much better he is than AB, when he also finished the regular season at .500 and didn\'t even earn his way into the playoffs.

WELL! Isn\'t Leon to blame for everything? He even started the war in Iraq. Durn his hide.

JB...I like the way you think, but you can\'t straighten these guys out. They blame Brooks for EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING...and it only makes sense to those card-carrying members of the \"anybody but Brooks\" club.

Joe_Buddens · 01-30-2005, 11:43 AM

Nice try Buddens. Has AB ever thrown 39 TDS in a season? Those stats you found were hilarious. Way to pick and choose. Now let\'s get to the important stats that matter. CAREER PASSER RATING - AB 81.5 or some such nonsense. CULPEPPER - 93.2. I wonder who is better? Daunte has 129 TDS and 74 INTS since 2000. AB has 106 and 67. Hhhmmm think I will take the 23 more TDS. AB - 16274 yards since 2000 Daunte - 18598. Edge Daunte again. Daunte 2329 yards RUSHING with 28 TOUCHDOWNS. AB 1129 RUSHING yards with 11 TDS. Yeah, I can see why you would pick AB over Daunte. That is just ridiculous. Dude please give it up cause this is too one-sided. You would get laughed off any other forum on the planet for saying you would take AB over Daunte. I would put money on that. AB can\'t hold Daunte\'s jock. The clincher, Culpepper also has more playoffs wins than AB and has been to a championship game. Dude, just come off it.

Well Whodi, looks as if we\'re both picking and choosing

...

But I still find it ironic that things like passer ratings, TD passes, rushing and passing yards only matter when comparing another QB to AB, and never when one wants to show how much AB has done since he\'s been here. Only WINS matter then huh? I see you keep an extra face in your pocket at all times...

Speaking of WINS, the facts that Daunte has finished with the worst record out of the two while starting a full season and AB has more wins over the past 3 seasons isn\'t important all of a sudden? FASCINATING! Tell me Whodi, why is it that Daunte\'s stats matter, when just like AB, it seems a hard task for him to help get his team to atleast a 10 win season and a RESPECTABLE playoff birth without help from other teams? How is one any different from the other in that respect?...

I\'d pick AB over Daunte? Where did you see me say that? Please show me. I could\'ve sworn that I\'ve only been here arguing how much they are of the same calibur. I didn\'t put up those stats to say AB is better. I put them up to say that Daunte isn\'t \'neccessarily\' better, as you think. I like AB. But honestly, if I had a choice I\'d pick NEITHER. Both are \'middle of the road\' IMHO...

And would I really get laughed off any other forum if I were to choose AB over Daunte, really? I can\'t understand why you\'d say that. Especially when ultimately, both are guys who have won ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and are just as inconsistent as the other. Forget about how many playoff wins Daunte has and his NFC Championship appearance (which he lost). Do you think he goes around bragging about his 2 or 3 playoff wins when he doesn\'t have a championship ring on his finger? Did these players aspire to get into the league just for playoff appearances? I didn\'t think so.

Saint_LB · 01-30-2005, 02:06 PM

[ I know he didn\'t start the whole year, but what excuse are you gonna give me when he doesn\'t make 9 in \'05?

None, I don\'t feel the need to make excuses. Neither does Eli. So far, in all the interviews I have heard, he has been humble. He has been perfectly willing to accept the responsibilty for losses, saying things like, \"I need to improve.\" Your guy, on the other hand, will blame everyone besides himself, always having an excuse. If that is the kind of guy you like having around, then you should be in hog heaven with AB as the QB. Personally, I prefer the ones who don\'t feel the need to make excuses, because those are the guys who will be capable of seeing their mistakes and improve upon them. IMO, it takes a confident person to be able to display humility. Someone who thinks he is incapable of error will keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again. Sound familiar. But you have a right to your opinion, and a right to support whoever you choose...just as I do. I have given AB plenty of time to eliminate his \"rookie\" mistakes, but they just keep on coming. I think it would only be fair to give Eli that same amount of time. If, after five years he has not proven that he is a great QB, I will be the first one to recognize it and admit that I misjudged him. How much more time are you willing to give AB before you admit that you might be wrong?

saintswhodi · 01-30-2005, 02:16 PM

Dude, this is too easy. Find me an article where Daunte calls himself great and says his team sucks. Then find me a false love article from Daunte. Then find me one where Daunte was fighting with a teammate on a plane after a loss. Not only does Daunte\'s stats put AB to shame, HE HAS MORE PLAYOFF WINS AND MORE CHARACTER. So since Peyton Manning had a 3-13 season and AB hasn\'t I guess AB is better than Peyton. What about Troy Aikman? He was 1-15 once. I guess AB is better than him. That is the most ridiculous criteria for a stat I have ever heard. So cause Daunte has A SEASON worse than AB, somehow that makes AB better? Okay Bud. Drew Brees was 4-12 last year as a starter. I guess AB is better than him too, yet pretty much anyone who support AB would dump him for Brees. Ben was 15-1 as a starter this year, so he must be better than AB right? A rookie? Dude, just give it up, seriously. If you can\'t look at Daunte\'s numbers, HIS PLAYOFF WINS, and the fact he has been in A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, and see he is better than Leon, you are jaded. Straight up. Also, you do know Daunte\'s team has been in the playoffs more time than AB\'s right? And AB went with Jeff Blake\'s team. Tell me when this gets tough.

Let me find some other qbs who must be worse than AB cause they HAD ONE WORSE SEASON. Tom Brady\'s Pats went 9-7 two years ago. So since AB\'s team was 10-6 on the coattails of Jeff Blake\'s 7-4, AB must be better than Brady too right? Steve Young never posted a winning season in Tampa. So AB must be better than him too since he has right? I believe the Pack may have been 8-8 once under Favre. But since AB has been 9-7, that makes him better right? Screw playoff wins or even getting there, who cares about that? Look at the shiny stats AB has since he has been a starter. Dude, seriously. Come on. If you believe AB and Daunte are of the same quality, I really just ought to leave this alone. That\'s hopeless.

ScottyRo · 01-30-2005, 02:51 PM

How much more time are you willing to give AB before you admit that you might be wrong?

See, this is where you keep missing my point. I am not in the pro-AB crowd. I\'m just not in the anti-AB crowd either.

As anyone who has read a majority of my posts can tell you, I\'m all for bringing in a viable alternative for Brooks. By viable I mean, available and talented enough to be similarly as effective as Brooks in \'05. Now, I\'m positive that we\'ll disagree as to what talent level that is, but it\'s moot until we see who is actually available anyway. But if we do bring someone in of that caliber and make an improvement on D, then I\'ll see our team at 12-4 or better if that QB is one that has \"it\". Out of all of AB\'s problems, to me this is the most serious.

I also agree that Ab has had plenty of time. Just like I think Haslet has had plenty of time. I think the comments AB made are being blown out of proportion and are moot anyway. The biggest problems are the ones you mention as far as his on field errors. But I temper my wish to replace him with the understanding that we cannot afford to take a step backwards at QB either.

ScottyRo · 01-30-2005, 02:56 PM

The Daunte versus AB thing isn\'t fair to AB. AB has yet to play up to that level. He lacks Daunte\'s passion and flair. Not that Duante doesn\'t have his own problems or that AB isn\'t capable of matching his skills. AB just hasn\'t.

Ya\'ll can post stats for days. What really matters is you\'re overall impression of each QB\'s playing skill based on your own observations.

Saint_LB · 01-30-2005, 03:45 PM

As anyone who has read a majority of my posts can tell you, I\'m all for bringing in a viable alternative for Brooks. By viable I mean, available and talented enough to be similarly as effective as Brooks in \'05.

So, if I am reading this correctly, we should not take a chance of upgrading at that position for fear of getting worse, and be willing to accept mediocrity until AB can\'t drag himself onto the field anymore, or, sign a FA that we know is going to be better than him even though that person may not exist on the market right now. Tell me, who out there would you accept that we would have a REALISTIC opportunity to sign?

ScottyRo · 01-30-2005, 03:58 PM

So, if I am reading this correctly, we should not take a chance of upgrading at that position for fear of getting worse, and be willing to accept mediocrity until AB can\'t drag himself onto the field anymore, or, sign a FA that we know is going to be better than him even though that person may not exist on the market right now. Tell me, who out there would you accept that we would have a REALISTIC opportunity to sign?

So I guess you\'re all for destroying what little we might have a QB all for the sake of getting rid of AB and taking a chance on anybody else?

Even though it\'s too early to see which QBs are actually going to be available, I\'ll mention a few. First, I think Brees would be awesome. I might even be willing to trade AB AND Howard for him, but I\'d have to think on that a while.

Otherwise, Volek is a good prospect, but I\'d rather have him come in and have an honest competition for the job against AB.

I think moat of all i\'d like to spend a first day pick on getting a rookie QB. Who i don\'t know.

Saint_LB · 01-30-2005, 04:15 PM

So I guess you\'re all for destroying what little we might have a QB all for the sake of getting rid of AB and taking a chance on anybody else?

Anobody else? Funny, I don\'t remember ever having said that. That\'s not the first time you have put words in my mouth since we started this debate, but, hey, that\'s OK. I, too, would be in favor of drafting someone, but not as a back-up, because if he is going to be drafted to be the man to replace an inconsistent AB, then we might as well put him out there ASAP. It\'s not like we are going to the playoffs every year with AB at the helm, so what, in reality, would we be risking? He is not going to learn anything sitting on the bench, and I am certain that he won\'t have the benefit of AB\'s insight, because first of all, he doesn\'t have any. Secondly, he wouldn\'t share it even if he did...that\'s the kind of guy he is.

ScottyRo · 01-30-2005, 04:38 PM

That\'s not the first time you have put words in my mouth since we started this debate

I suppose you\'re not guilty of adding to what I\'ve said. You\'ll probably even come back with asking me for illustrations of that sort of thing from you rather than admitting it, but like you say, \"that\'s OK\". So, out of the REALISTIC available QBs who wouldn\'t you have to replace AB, if anyone?

It\'s not like we are going to the playoffs every year with AB at the helm, so what, in reality, would we be risking?

Exactly. It\'s all AB\'s fault we haven\'t been to the playoffs. Nevermind that the D has been horrible the last two seasons (and haven\'t exactly been great since Haslets arrival). So you\'re saying, and God help me if I\'m putting words in your mouth, that you\'d rather start a rookie which conventional logic and history suggests would most likely kill next year\'s chances of making the playoffs rather than fix the defense and keep AB and hope for more.

The facts are that no matter how bad AB played we won 8 games and there is no disputing the ineptness of the D. Improve the D and we make the playoffs, as is. Start a rookie or someone that turns out to be worse than AB, and we wont make the playoffs without a very strong D - which will take much improvement.

01-30-2005, 11:12 AM	#61
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	QB only Whodi, the funny thing is that if I were to come in here and use AB\'s stats to help argue how good he is, you\'d quickly refer to the team\'s record and say something like \"he\'s still a .500 QB\". Yet you wanna use Daunte\'s MVP-like stats to try to convince me how much better he is than AB, when he also finished the regular season at .500 and didn\'t even earn his way into the playoffs. WELL! Isn\'t Leon to blame for everything? He even started the war in Iraq. Durn his hide. JB...I like the way you think, but you can\'t straighten these guys out. They blame Brooks for EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING...and it only makes sense to those card-carrying members of the \"anybody but Brooks\" club.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

01-30-2005, 11:43 AM	#62
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	QB only Nice try Buddens. Has AB ever thrown 39 TDS in a season? Those stats you found were hilarious. Way to pick and choose. Now let\'s get to the important stats that matter. CAREER PASSER RATING - AB 81.5 or some such nonsense. CULPEPPER - 93.2. I wonder who is better? Daunte has 129 TDS and 74 INTS since 2000. AB has 106 and 67. Hhhmmm think I will take the 23 more TDS. AB - 16274 yards since 2000 Daunte - 18598. Edge Daunte again. Daunte 2329 yards RUSHING with 28 TOUCHDOWNS. AB 1129 RUSHING yards with 11 TDS. Yeah, I can see why you would pick AB over Daunte. That is just ridiculous. Dude please give it up cause this is too one-sided. You would get laughed off any other forum on the planet for saying you would take AB over Daunte. I would put money on that. AB can\'t hold Daunte\'s jock. The clincher, Culpepper also has more playoffs wins than AB and has been to a championship game. Dude, just come off it. Well Whodi, looks as if we\'re both picking and choosing ... But I still find it ironic that things like passer ratings, TD passes, rushing and passing yards only matter when comparing another QB to AB, and never when one wants to show how much AB has done since he\'s been here. Only WINS matter then huh? I see you keep an extra face in your pocket at all times... Speaking of WINS, the facts that Daunte has finished with the worst record out of the two while starting a full season and AB has more wins over the past 3 seasons isn\'t important all of a sudden? FASCINATING! Tell me Whodi, why is it that Daunte\'s stats matter, when just like AB, it seems a hard task for him to help get his team to atleast a 10 win season and a RESPECTABLE playoff birth without help from other teams? How is one any different from the other in that respect?... I\'d pick AB over Daunte? Where did you see me say that? Please show me. I could\'ve sworn that I\'ve only been here arguing how much they are of the same calibur. I didn\'t put up those stats to say AB is better. I put them up to say that Daunte isn\'t \'neccessarily\' better, as you think. I like AB. But honestly, if I had a choice I\'d pick NEITHER. Both are \'middle of the road\' IMHO... And would I really get laughed off any other forum if I were to choose AB over Daunte, really? I can\'t understand why you\'d say that. Especially when ultimately, both are guys who have won ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and are just as inconsistent as the other. Forget about how many playoff wins Daunte has and his NFC Championship appearance (which he lost). Do you think he goes around bragging about his 2 or 3 playoff wins when he doesn\'t have a championship ring on his finger? Did these players aspire to get into the league just for playoff appearances? I didn\'t think so.
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16

01-30-2005, 02:06 PM	#63
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	QB only [ I know he didn\'t start the whole year, but what excuse are you gonna give me when he doesn\'t make 9 in \'05? None, I don\'t feel the need to make excuses. Neither does Eli. So far, in all the interviews I have heard, he has been humble. He has been perfectly willing to accept the responsibilty for losses, saying things like, \"I need to improve.\" Your guy, on the other hand, will blame everyone besides himself, always having an excuse. If that is the kind of guy you like having around, then you should be in hog heaven with AB as the QB. Personally, I prefer the ones who don\'t feel the need to make excuses, because those are the guys who will be capable of seeing their mistakes and improve upon them. IMO, it takes a confident person to be able to display humility. Someone who thinks he is incapable of error will keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again. Sound familiar. But you have a right to your opinion, and a right to support whoever you choose...just as I do. I have given AB plenty of time to eliminate his \"rookie\" mistakes, but they just keep on coming. I think it would only be fair to give Eli that same amount of time. If, after five years he has not proven that he is a great QB, I will be the first one to recognize it and admit that I misjudged him. How much more time are you willing to give AB before you admit that you might be wrong?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

01-30-2005, 02:16 PM	#64
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	QB only Dude, this is too easy. Find me an article where Daunte calls himself great and says his team sucks. Then find me a false love article from Daunte. Then find me one where Daunte was fighting with a teammate on a plane after a loss. Not only does Daunte\'s stats put AB to shame, HE HAS MORE PLAYOFF WINS AND MORE CHARACTER. So since Peyton Manning had a 3-13 season and AB hasn\'t I guess AB is better than Peyton. What about Troy Aikman? He was 1-15 once. I guess AB is better than him. That is the most ridiculous criteria for a stat I have ever heard. So cause Daunte has A SEASON worse than AB, somehow that makes AB better? Okay Bud. Drew Brees was 4-12 last year as a starter. I guess AB is better than him too, yet pretty much anyone who support AB would dump him for Brees. Ben was 15-1 as a starter this year, so he must be better than AB right? A rookie? Dude, just give it up, seriously. If you can\'t look at Daunte\'s numbers, HIS PLAYOFF WINS, and the fact he has been in A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, and see he is better than Leon, you are jaded. Straight up. Also, you do know Daunte\'s team has been in the playoffs more time than AB\'s right? And AB went with Jeff Blake\'s team. Tell me when this gets tough. Let me find some other qbs who must be worse than AB cause they HAD ONE WORSE SEASON. Tom Brady\'s Pats went 9-7 two years ago. So since AB\'s team was 10-6 on the coattails of Jeff Blake\'s 7-4, AB must be better than Brady too right? Steve Young never posted a winning season in Tampa. So AB must be better than him too since he has right? I believe the Pack may have been 8-8 once under Favre. But since AB has been 9-7, that makes him better right? Screw playoff wins or even getting there, who cares about that? Look at the shiny stats AB has since he has been a starter. Dude, seriously. Come on. If you believe AB and Daunte are of the same quality, I really just ought to leave this alone. That\'s hopeless.

01-30-2005, 02:51 PM	#65
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	QB only How much more time are you willing to give AB before you admit that you might be wrong? See, this is where you keep missing my point. I am not in the pro-AB crowd. I\'m just not in the anti-AB crowd either. As anyone who has read a majority of my posts can tell you, I\'m all for bringing in a viable alternative for Brooks. By viable I mean, available and talented enough to be similarly as effective as Brooks in \'05. Now, I\'m positive that we\'ll disagree as to what talent level that is, but it\'s moot until we see who is actually available anyway. But if we do bring someone in of that caliber and make an improvement on D, then I\'ll see our team at 12-4 or better if that QB is one that has \"it\". Out of all of AB\'s problems, to me this is the most serious. I also agree that Ab has had plenty of time. Just like I think Haslet has had plenty of time. I think the comments AB made are being blown out of proportion and are moot anyway. The biggest problems are the ones you mention as far as his on field errors. But I temper my wish to replace him with the understanding that we cannot afford to take a step backwards at QB either.

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01-30-2005, 02:56 PM	#66
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	QB only The Daunte versus AB thing isn\'t fair to AB. AB has yet to play up to that level. He lacks Daunte\'s passion and flair. Not that Duante doesn\'t have his own problems or that AB isn\'t capable of matching his skills. AB just hasn\'t. Ya\'ll can post stats for days. What really matters is you\'re overall impression of each QB\'s playing skill based on your own observations.

01-30-2005, 03:45 PM	#67
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	QB only As anyone who has read a majority of my posts can tell you, I\'m all for bringing in a viable alternative for Brooks. By viable I mean, available and talented enough to be similarly as effective as Brooks in \'05. So, if I am reading this correctly, we should not take a chance of upgrading at that position for fear of getting worse, and be willing to accept mediocrity until AB can\'t drag himself onto the field anymore, or, sign a FA that we know is going to be better than him even though that person may not exist on the market right now. Tell me, who out there would you accept that we would have a REALISTIC opportunity to sign?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

01-30-2005, 03:58 PM	#68
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	QB only So, if I am reading this correctly, we should not take a chance of upgrading at that position for fear of getting worse, and be willing to accept mediocrity until AB can\'t drag himself onto the field anymore, or, sign a FA that we know is going to be better than him even though that person may not exist on the market right now. Tell me, who out there would you accept that we would have a REALISTIC opportunity to sign? So I guess you\'re all for destroying what little we might have a QB all for the sake of getting rid of AB and taking a chance on anybody else? Even though it\'s too early to see which QBs are actually going to be available, I\'ll mention a few. First, I think Brees would be awesome. I might even be willing to trade AB AND Howard for him, but I\'d have to think on that a while. Otherwise, Volek is a good prospect, but I\'d rather have him come in and have an honest competition for the job against AB. I think moat of all i\'d like to spend a first day pick on getting a rookie QB. Who i don\'t know.

01-30-2005, 04:15 PM	#69
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	QB only So I guess you\'re all for destroying what little we might have a QB all for the sake of getting rid of AB and taking a chance on anybody else? Anobody else? Funny, I don\'t remember ever having said that. That\'s not the first time you have put words in my mouth since we started this debate, but, hey, that\'s OK. I, too, would be in favor of drafting someone, but not as a back-up, because if he is going to be drafted to be the man to replace an inconsistent AB, then we might as well put him out there ASAP. It\'s not like we are going to the playoffs every year with AB at the helm, so what, in reality, would we be risking? He is not going to learn anything sitting on the bench, and I am certain that he won\'t have the benefit of AB\'s insight, because first of all, he doesn\'t have any. Secondly, he wouldn\'t share it even if he did...that\'s the kind of guy he is.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

01-30-2005, 04:38 PM	#70
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	QB only That\'s not the first time you have put words in my mouth since we started this debate I suppose you\'re not guilty of adding to what I\'ve said. You\'ll probably even come back with asking me for illustrations of that sort of thing from you rather than admitting it, but like you say, \"that\'s OK\". So, out of the REALISTIC available QBs who wouldn\'t you have to replace AB, if anyone? It\'s not like we are going to the playoffs every year with AB at the helm, so what, in reality, would we be risking? Exactly. It\'s all AB\'s fault we haven\'t been to the playoffs. Nevermind that the D has been horrible the last two seasons (and haven\'t exactly been great since Haslets arrival). So you\'re saying, and God help me if I\'m putting words in your mouth, that you\'d rather start a rookie which conventional logic and history suggests would most likely kill next year\'s chances of making the playoffs rather than fix the defense and keep AB and hope for more. The facts are that no matter how bad AB played we won 8 games and there is no disputing the ineptness of the D. Improve the D and we make the playoffs, as is. Start a rookie or someone that turns out to be worse than AB, and we wont make the playoffs without a very strong D - which will take much improvement.