Deuce is lazy?

spkb25 · 02-01-2005, 08:35 PM

oh yes this is the post i meant to respond too. dannno im trying to figure out whether your saying that deuce is part of the problem or that people are blaming him when they should be blaming other parts of the team. i dont know your point because i have never either disagreed with your post or not payed them much attention

spkb25 · 02-01-2005, 08:44 PM

oh sorry danno i read some of your past comments. now understand your argument. well i understand you
oh wait i dont understand any of that. i see a cry baby crying

boohoo hoo oh im not duece i wish i was deuce no donna

spkb25 · 02-01-2005, 08:47 PM

danno im just kidding. hey you made a something. so no hard feelings.

BlackandBlue · 02-01-2005, 10:14 PM

spkb25, you\'re dangerously close to being slapped with the \"JKool rule\".

Tobias-Reiper · 02-01-2005, 10:40 PM

So then, do we blame the defense for allowing the team to get so far behind? I\'d say so, but then had he performed better early in the game perhaps we might have done better overall.

How many TD\'s did he score? What\'s his TD/Fumble ratio for last year?

Man, this is fun. LOL

..well, it really isn\'t fun... you just want to get in a blame game: you can \"blame\" the defense for falling behind because the defense is the one who usually gets scored on, then you can \"blame\" the offense for not being able to move the ball early and constantly going 3-and-out, therefore leaving the defense with bad field position, or you can \"blame\" special teams for not giving either offense or defense good field position, and on and on and on...

..look, you and I know the intention of the original post... but anyway, if we pretend this is about Deuce, I\'ll tell you, I\'m not a \'stats\" guy.. \"stats\" are ratios, averages, tape measurements, etc...
I just know that if you don\'t hand the ball to the RB, whatever the reason is not to hand the ball to the RB, he cannot get yards;
... I also know that in the open field not very many people in the NFL can catch up to Dulymus, even if he doesn\'t run a 4.2 40, and the ones who catch up, need a few yards to bring him down.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-01-2005, 11:13 PM

... hate it when facts cut through a good mindless argument.

mindless?
Yeah, I sure read a whole lot of \"Yeah, but... followed by a list of EXCUSES!
No wonder most fans are contenet with 8-8. They refuse to see the obvious when its right in their face.
No wait I\'m wrong, they admit they see the obvious but then supply a list of excuses why their own realization is incorrect.
The only mindless arguement I see is admitting there is a problem then listing excuses why its not a problem.
Its the typical Saint fan mentality.

..well, proving again that I thing well...

there were posts insinuating that Dulymus had dropped down in the 2001 draft because of his \"work ethic\", and that is not right.
Here:
http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0330/1164683.html
Due to injury concerns, McAllister has lost some ground recently, but I still believe he has the ability to rank as a top-drawer, all-purpose feature back in the NFL.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/rd2.html
Deuce McAllister, RB, Mississippi - (snip)McAllister has proven to be injury prone. Players with potential injury problems will not get drafted first overall. The Chargers will also be looking for the safest pick, because of the Ryan Leaf fiasco, and Deuce is far from safe.

..you can find some more if you want to... I figured Kiper and one more would suffice to show that the reason why Deuce wasn\'t drafted earlier was because he was labeled \"injury prone\", not as having a questionable \"work ethic\"...

..then there\'s the 1074 yds... I am not much of a stats guy, you know, ratios, averages, etc... so I don\'t think there\'s a magic number out there for any player to reach... but it seems pretty reasonable to say that, if the ball isn\'t handed to the RB, for whatever reason, he\'s not going to get many yards...

..if you think that he should be getting 2000 yards a season, well, that\'s ok, I guess... but the fact remains that only 5 RB\'s in NFL history have ever reached 2000 yards in one season, and 2000 yards in a season is a pretty tall order for any back.

..if you think Deuce is slow, that\'s ok too... just like I\'m not too interested in stats, I\'m not too interested in 40 times either... like I said, he looked pretty fast to me in that 71 yard run...

... another fact is that I don\'t consider Deuce a \"great\" RB or a \"top 5\" RB... He\'s a very good RB when healthy, and that\'s that...

GumboBC · 02-02-2005, 11:27 AM

Okay... About Deuce and his fumbling...

I think the only way to judge a runningback\'s fumbles is to look the the # of carries/fumble ratio.

Let\'s do that...........

Here\'s Deuce compared to some of the top backs in the NFL.

Deuce McAllister
269-carries
5-fumbles
Deuce fumbled once every 53.8 carries.

Curtis Martin
371-carries
2-fumbles
Martin fumbled once every 185.5 carries.

LaDainian Tomlinson
339-carries
6-fumbles
Tomlinson fumbled once every 56.5 carries.

Corey Dillion
345-carries
5-fumbles
Dillion fumbled once every 69 carries.

Clinton Portis
343-carries
5-fumbles
Portis fumbled once every 68.6 carries.

Shaun Alexander
353-carries
5-fumbles
Alexander fumbled once every 70.6 carries.

Deuce fumbled once every 53.8 carries.
Tomlinson fumbled once every 56.5 carries.
Portis fumbled once every 68.6 carries.
Dillion fumbled once every 69 carries.
Alexander fumbled once every 70.6 carries.
Martin fumbled once every 185.5 carries.

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Boogro · 02-02-2005, 11:55 AM

[quote
... another fact is that I don\'t consider Deuce a \"great\" RB or a \"top 5\" RB... He\'s a very good RB when healthy, and that\'s that... [/quote:311d9e4490]

How is it a \"fact\" when someone uses the phrase \"I don\'t consider\" in an argument.

The man has one bad year and all of a sudden he drops off someone\'s top 5 back or \"great\" board. Before this year, I bet all of you had consider Duece to be a top 5 back. For one, we got outscored like 90-10 in the last 14 games in the first quarter (not accurate but somewhere along those lines) Your O-line is in shambles, you have no fullback to lead block, try rushing for 1,500 yards with those odds.

Duece is a franchise player. Put him in San Diego, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, or Denver and see what he does. Duece is a top 5 back. He has all the intangibles. He had an off-year thats it. Now with a new co-ordinator, position coach, personnel along the line, Karney with a year of experience under his belt, we should be in good shape.

I know I am optomistic, and I guess I see the good in people rather than the bad, but there not many bad things you can say about Duece.

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by Boogro]

Tobias-Reiper · 02-02-2005, 01:46 PM

... well, if I have to explain it .. ok.. guess so..
say you believe in God...
\"It\'s a fact that I believe in God\"
vs
\"It\'s a fact that God exists\"
...or you can re-word the first sentence as:
\"I consider God to be real\".
..see what I mean?
The fact is that \"action\" , where action = my thinking, and not what I am thinking, i.e. \"Deuce is not a great RB\", which in itself is arguable, obviously...

... just to clarify, I don\'t have \"top 5 lists\"... however, speaking of RB\'s , here\'s some food for thought, in no particular order ( active players):

Jamal Lewis
Priest Holmes
Curtis Martin
Edgerrin James
LaDanian Tomlinson
Ahman Green
Fred Taylor
Clinton Portis
Corey Dillon

..as far as being \"great\", Jim Brown was great, Sweetness wa great, Dorsett was great... you can\'t define greatness in 2-3 seasons worth of stats (which to me are as useless as \"top 5\" lists)... Greatness is measured throughout a career...

..so there..

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

saintfan · 02-02-2005, 02:59 PM

TD/Fumble ratio? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

:shrug:

02-01-2005, 08:35 PM	#71
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Deuce is lazy? oh yes this is the post i meant to respond too. dannno im trying to figure out whether your saying that deuce is part of the problem or that people are blaming him when they should be blaming other parts of the team. i dont know your point because i have never either disagreed with your post or not payed them much attention

02-01-2005, 08:44 PM	#72
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Deuce is lazy? oh sorry danno i read some of your past comments. now understand your argument. well i understand you oh wait i dont understand any of that. i see a cry baby crying boohoo hoo oh im not duece i wish i was deuce no donna

02-01-2005, 08:47 PM	#73
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Deuce is lazy? danno im just kidding. hey you made a something. so no hard feelings.

02-01-2005, 10:14 PM	#74
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Deuce is lazy? spkb25, you\'re dangerously close to being slapped with the \"JKool rule\".

02-01-2005, 10:40 PM	#75
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Deuce is lazy? So then, do we blame the defense for allowing the team to get so far behind? I\'d say so, but then had he performed better early in the game perhaps we might have done better overall. How many TD\'s did he score? What\'s his TD/Fumble ratio for last year? Man, this is fun. LOL ..well, it really isn\'t fun... you just want to get in a blame game: you can \"blame\" the defense for falling behind because the defense is the one who usually gets scored on, then you can \"blame\" the offense for not being able to move the ball early and constantly going 3-and-out, therefore leaving the defense with bad field position, or you can \"blame\" special teams for not giving either offense or defense good field position, and on and on and on... ..look, you and I know the intention of the original post... but anyway, if we pretend this is about Deuce, I\'ll tell you, I\'m not a \'stats\" guy.. \"stats\" are ratios, averages, tape measurements, etc... I just know that if you don\'t hand the ball to the RB, whatever the reason is not to hand the ball to the RB, he cannot get yards; ... I also know that in the open field not very many people in the NFL can catch up to Dulymus, even if he doesn\'t run a 4.2 40, and the ones who catch up, need a few yards to bring him down.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

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02-01-2005, 11:13 PM	#76
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Deuce is lazy? ... hate it when facts cut through a good mindless argument. mindless? Yeah, I sure read a whole lot of \"Yeah, but... followed by a list of EXCUSES! No wonder most fans are contenet with 8-8. They refuse to see the obvious when its right in their face. No wait I\'m wrong, they admit they see the obvious but then supply a list of excuses why their own realization is incorrect. The only mindless arguement I see is admitting there is a problem then listing excuses why its not a problem. Its the typical Saint fan mentality. ..well, proving again that I thing well... there were posts insinuating that Dulymus had dropped down in the 2001 draft because of his \"work ethic\", and that is not right. Here: http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0330/1164683.html Due to injury concerns, McAllister has lost some ground recently, but I still believe he has the ability to rank as a top-drawer, all-purpose feature back in the NFL. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/rd2.html Deuce McAllister, RB, Mississippi - (snip)McAllister has proven to be injury prone. Players with potential injury problems will not get drafted first overall. The Chargers will also be looking for the safest pick, because of the Ryan Leaf fiasco, and Deuce is far from safe. ..you can find some more if you want to... I figured Kiper and one more would suffice to show that the reason why Deuce wasn\'t drafted earlier was because he was labeled \"injury prone\", not as having a questionable \"work ethic\"... ..then there\'s the 1074 yds... I am not much of a stats guy, you know, ratios, averages, etc... so I don\'t think there\'s a magic number out there for any player to reach... but it seems pretty reasonable to say that, if the ball isn\'t handed to the RB, for whatever reason, he\'s not going to get many yards... ..if you think that he should be getting 2000 yards a season, well, that\'s ok, I guess... but the fact remains that only 5 RB\'s in NFL history have ever reached 2000 yards in one season, and 2000 yards in a season is a pretty tall order for any back. ..if you think Deuce is slow, that\'s ok too... just like I\'m not too interested in stats, I\'m not too interested in 40 times either... like I said, he looked pretty fast to me in that 71 yard run... ... another fact is that I don\'t consider Deuce a \"great\" RB or a \"top 5\" RB... He\'s a very good RB when healthy, and that\'s that...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

02-02-2005, 11:27 AM	#77
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Deuce is lazy? Okay... About Deuce and his fumbling... I think the only way to judge a runningback\'s fumbles is to look the the # of carries/fumble ratio. Let\'s do that........... Here\'s Deuce compared to some of the top backs in the NFL. Deuce McAllister 269-carries 5-fumbles Deuce fumbled once every 53.8 carries. Curtis Martin 371-carries 2-fumbles Martin fumbled once every 185.5 carries. LaDainian Tomlinson 339-carries 6-fumbles Tomlinson fumbled once every 56.5 carries. Corey Dillion 345-carries 5-fumbles Dillion fumbled once every 69 carries. Clinton Portis 343-carries 5-fumbles Portis fumbled once every 68.6 carries. Shaun Alexander 353-carries 5-fumbles Alexander fumbled once every 70.6 carries. Deuce fumbled once every 53.8 carries. Tomlinson fumbled once every 56.5 carries. Portis fumbled once every 68.6 carries. Dillion fumbled once every 69 carries. Alexander fumbled once every 70.6 carries. Martin fumbled once every 185.5 carries. [Edited on 2/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-02-2005, 11:55 AM	#78
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Deuce is lazy? [quote ... another fact is that I don\'t consider Deuce a \"great\" RB or a \"top 5\" RB... He\'s a very good RB when healthy, and that\'s that... [/quote:311d9e4490] How is it a \"fact\" when someone uses the phrase \"I don\'t consider\" in an argument. The man has one bad year and all of a sudden he drops off someone\'s top 5 back or \"great\" board. Before this year, I bet all of you had consider Duece to be a top 5 back. For one, we got outscored like 90-10 in the last 14 games in the first quarter (not accurate but somewhere along those lines) Your O-line is in shambles, you have no fullback to lead block, try rushing for 1,500 yards with those odds. Duece is a franchise player. Put him in San Diego, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, or Denver and see what he does. Duece is a top 5 back. He has all the intangibles. He had an off-year thats it. Now with a new co-ordinator, position coach, personnel along the line, Karney with a year of experience under his belt, we should be in good shape. I know I am optomistic, and I guess I see the good in people rather than the bad, but there not many bad things you can say about Duece. [Edited on 2/2/2005 by Boogro]

02-02-2005, 01:46 PM	#79
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Deuce is lazy? ... well, if I have to explain it .. ok.. guess so.. say you believe in God... \"It\'s a fact that I believe in God\" vs \"It\'s a fact that God exists\" ...or you can re-word the first sentence as: \"I consider God to be real\". ..see what I mean? The fact is that \"action\" , where action = my thinking, and not what I am thinking, i.e. \"Deuce is not a great RB\", which in itself is arguable, obviously... ... just to clarify, I don\'t have \"top 5 lists\"... however, speaking of RB\'s , here\'s some food for thought, in no particular order ( active players): Jamal Lewis Priest Holmes Curtis Martin Edgerrin James LaDanian Tomlinson Ahman Green Fred Taylor Clinton Portis Corey Dillon ..as far as being \"great\", Jim Brown was great, Sweetness wa great, Dorsett was great... you can\'t define greatness in 2-3 seasons worth of stats (which to me are as useless as \"top 5\" lists)... Greatness is measured throughout a career... ..so there.. [Edited on 2/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper] [Edited on 2/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

02-02-2005, 02:59 PM	#80
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Deuce is lazy? TD/Fumble ratio? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller? :shrug: