mutineer10

Hey, man. Neither of us are trying to tell you how to feel about any of this. We\'re just as privy to the past mistakes as everyone else ... we\'re Saints fans, aren\'t we?

I dunno about JKool, but I\'m frustrated 1000% as well. I was no happier with another 8-8 season than you or anybody else was. I don\'t think JKool\'s post was meant as blind acceptance of whatever the front office feeds us - he simply pointed out that the Saints have tried a few moves in the past, with mixed results. The implication being that FA moves to come are not guaranteed to bring success.

Then again, it\'s perfectly valid to be frustrated when NO FA moves are made...

I never said I\'m giving Has and the boys a pass (you should know me better than that), only that I\'ll give \'em time to impress me. The ball\'s been in their court since Wednesday morning...

saintswhodi

LB, good to see you, where you been? I can understand where yoyuare coming from, but here was my deal. I let my guard down. I stopped arguing about AB and the defense and allowed some of the sunshine in. I told myself ALL of these guys, head coach, GM, FO, EVERYONE is hanging by a thread, so they will do what must be done to ensure a better season next year, immediately. It didn\'t happen, and I am pissed. But truly, I KNOW what you are saying. O know.

saintswhodi

I know mutey. I am just tired of hearing \"calm down, just wait, be patient\" though. If I wanna be pissed at 12:01 am on the start of free agency I don\'t feel I am unjustified. We have done ZIP NADA ZILCH. I am glad they contacted Pierce, great, BUT THEY HAD NO BACK UP PLAN. SO this means now thay are scrambling and will prob make a stupid move. How can you target one guy AND NOT HAVE A BACK UP PLAN? It\'s just dumb, and I feel him spurning them puts us in a WORSE spot. We are catering to egos now. They don\'t wanna get burned again, cause it will surely get out, and they will be laughed at. No, can\'t have that. So now we are in a no win situation when it comes to free agents. Either we have to overpay or we sit back and see what\'s left. It pisses me off.

O know where you stand mutey, but all this calm down and such was just making me more pissed. Thanks for the talk.

JKool

Fine, be frustrated 1000%.

The argument is this:
(1) It is NOT the case that we don\'t sign FAs. It is also NOT the case that we don\'t sign \"name\" FAs, even since Loomis has been \"in charge\".
(Aside) I\'m glad some people think they know what was going on in Belichek\'s head; I know I don\'t.
(2) You can be as upset all you like about Sully (we DRAFTED him), my point was about Young, who was a good FA pick up.
(3) It is NOT the case that we don\'t address areas of need (except LB, obviously; which IS a mystery to me).
(4) Even if MM wanted to be traded, he didn\'t ask to get traded to the Saints! We went out and got him. Our hand was forced!? Isn\'t it forced now? We need a Safety, a LB, and an OT. We\'re trying to get all of those, at least according to the rumors.
(5) Which of those FA moves that I mentioned was dumb? Maybe T-buck, but after that Gandy, Riley, Young, MM, Conwell were all guys that OTHER TEAMS ALSO WANTED and we got. We even got Stecker, who was below the radar according to my memory, and he turned out well.
(6) I\'ve seen evidence that TWO FAs didn\'t want to come here - Milloy and Pierce. I don\'t see evidence for \"most\"; of course, I\'m open to hearing additional evidence on this one.
(7) We paid Gandy to come here. We paid Conwell to come here. I don\'t see that we \"don\'t pay them what they want\" thing yet; Peirce didn\'t even want to visit - how do you know they didn\'t offer him what he wanted and he still didn\'t want to come?

I\'m just as frustrated as the next guy that we didn\'t get Pierce. However, it is not the case that we STINK in FA and that we do NOTHING. We have made some good moves, even last year. Sure, I wish we were more aggressive, but I don\'t see that it is that bad. If you do, fine; I don\'t, and I\'ve given an argument that is isn\'t that bad... yet.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

JKool

mutey, that was my bad, I did say that people should calm down. Apologies

JKool

This stuff about the \"no back up plan\" is confusing me. I think that the reason that people think this is that Mike D, I think, said that Pierce\'s refusal to even visit threw them for a loop. That doesn\'t mean that they don\'t have a backup plan; surely guys who do this for a living don\'t think that any idea is a sure thing. Furthermore, it could just mean that they were shocked he wouldn\'t even visit - that is a colloquial use of \"thrown for a loop\", isn\'t it?

I understand that people feel as though there is no backup plan from this statement, but I don\'t see a lot of evidence for that view other than one statement about Peirce.

Also, there are still a number of first rate LBs out there, including Bell and Hartwell, at least last time I checked.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

mutineer10

I\'m as baffled as you regarding that one. Maybe the Saints underestimated how coveted Pierce would be in FA (and let\'s not forget, the results remain to be seen - he could be another Tesucky, for all we know). There\'s also the possibility that we\'re talking to FA\'s and no one has heard about them yet (Ian Gold, Rob Morris, etc. I hope). Never said I BELIEVE that, but it\'s possible...

Could be I\'m hanging onto the possibility that a Howard trade is gonna bring a big name into New Orleans. For all we really know, there may not even BE a Howard trade.

Sheesh ... all this FA stuff can give you a headache

saintswhodi

Um, all you have to do is read Patriot Reign, it is IN THE BOOK, a book I have suggested be read repeatedly cause it is good. THAT\"S how I know what\'s in Belichek\'s head about Tebucky.

Second, you know Milloy didn\'t wanna visit cause Danno said so? That\'s proof? Okay, I heard someone say we had Hartwell. That\'s my proof.

I don\'t think Young was a good FA pickup.

We don\'t address areas of need. We have no backup QB, and no LBS. We also didn\'t have good corners going into last season. We got Mike midway and we were forced. J.T and a second??? TO went for Brandon Whiting and a 6th round pick. We were forced.

Who else wanted Riley and Conwell and Young? From what I saw, we got Young pretty fast in FA, where is there evidence someone else wanted him? The Rams made no effort to keep him. I also saw noone else make efforts for Stecker.

We paid Gandy cause we were ass out after Roaf and Turley. We HAD to. Again, a decision that was forced and not a matter of choice.

I think we suck at FA, and the players we have gotten prove it. We also suck in the draft outside the 1st round.

I guess we can interpret \"thrown for a loop\" however we want. I, and others, see it as having no backup plan. You don\'t. That\'s lovely Kool. As I said in the other post, I am glad you are optimistic. I see us being about to be forced into doing something stupid, and I am pissed.

JKool

Rob Morris is available? I don\'t remember seeing that. He doesn\'t suck.

saintswhodi

Trust me mutey, I am still holding the hope that Darren Howard will bring us something. Anything. A first round pick or a player. We really have no choice now but to pin our hopes on that.