Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?)

bayouking318 · 03-12-2005, 11:54 PM

I am against the trade unless it is a swap of 1st. rd picks and a second rd. pick instead of dat Nyguen. Hopefully with the 11th pick DJ will be there but at worst Shawn Merriman will be there and if they don\'t want Shawn they can at least trade down for more picks.

LKelley67 · 03-13-2005, 12:04 AM

the fresh howard talks have infused some fresh hope to me. i love him and think he is a stud. but no team can afford top 5 pay to a de that is in a 3 man rotation. it most imperative to move him. not anything at all about at all him but simply for cap relief. money for signing deuce, lecharles, and/or joe. i am not an expert on nguyen but it is hard to think he will not be a sum total upgrade over allen with the 2 sophmores. hodge is gone, so besides not much experience in starters the lb depth is very scary imo. hearing several teams interested is very good. these guys are really good at pimping me just enough to keep hoping against hope. right on bean counter loom man. i pour another drink to you tonight. maybe the gods of parity will yet shine upon another bourbon street playoff team.

TheJudge · 03-13-2005, 12:57 AM

in think he is a great LB>.. has a knack for the football...

nice upgrade...

Euphoria · 03-13-2005, 01:15 AM

There are two sides to every story someone thinking someone else got the better in of the deal. I thought it was suspisious that we got a player and a second rounder for Howard. The most I head we could get was a second or a third and thats it. Anything can happen. Now desperation going to set in... I still say we are going to be stuck with him this year.

mutineer10 · 03-13-2005, 04:53 AM

I\'ll thankfully confess I haven\'t suffered the misfortune of force-fed Cowboys games - living in Birmingham, I get the Buzzards or Titans instead - but I\'ve seen Nguyen play enough over the last few seasons.

Can\'t call him a star, but he\'s productive and seems reasonably durable. Throw in the 2nd rounder and this deal can\'t be denied. I\'m not thrilled about him, but it fits a desperate need.

As for the \"size\" issue - ehh ... that sounds odd - I dunno what everybody\'s so worked up about. Tale of the tape:

Dat Nguyen - 5\'11, 238 lbs.
2004 stats: 16 gms, 107 tackles, 1 sack, 3 ints, 2 pass def

Courtney Watson - 6\'1, 246 lbs.
2004 stats: 12 gms, 57 tackles, 2 sacks, 0 ints, 3 pass def

Orlando Ruff - 6\'3, 253 lbs.
2004 stats: 14 gms 79 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 int, 2 pass def

I know Watson was a rookie, and that Ruff is ... well, Orlando Ruff ... but Nguyen was almost as productive as both combined. Appears he\'s no less a liability in the passing game than the other two (in fact, he had 11 pass def in 2003). B****ing over 5\'11 as opposed to 6\'1 sounds about like b****ing over a 4.6 dash as opposed to a 4.4.

Again, he isn\'t my first choice either, but I can\'t think of any reason to pass this deal up.

JKool · 03-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Mutey,

It is less encouraging that Nguyen is only almost as good as Watson and Ruff combined; since they split the time in the middle, they should have combined to be an average LB - unless the two of them in tandem are better than an average LB? Hmmm.

I agree that Nguyen\'s stats are solid. I even think he\'s proven he can play the middle without a strong run defense in front of him. I like him.

The difference between a 4.4 and a 4.6 (as well as two inches) can be pretty significant though, so I\'m going to have to disagree with you on that one. Of course, I do agree that those kind of differences are the kind that can be made up for with savvy and skill, so point taken.

Euphoria · 03-13-2005, 10:35 AM

SO what I am hearing so far is that we all are pretty split on the idea of this trade. I also see that some people seem to think we should be getting a first round pick for Howard. I can go either way on Dat but I don\'t see us getting a first rounder especially since we need to move him by tomorrow.

mutineer10 · 03-13-2005, 10:41 AM

Seems like I read somewhere that movement at .1 second is imperceptable to the human eye. It was some article questioning why people get so worked up about 40-yard dash times.

A couple of inches is certainly more perceptable, and I can see the disadvantages in pass coverage. Some TE\'s he\'d be asked to cover are 6\'4 or better, so maybe I was a little premature in my judgment there. I\'ve been bashing Fred Thomas for being too short to cover many WR\'s, so I guess I\'m forced to acknowledge height as a factor with Nguyen, too.

As for the savvy and skill stuff, we agree...

shadowdrinker · 03-13-2005, 12:29 PM

I\'ve never been too hung up on size...I agree it holds relevance, but not to the extent that someone who is 2 inches shorter than Ideal should be ignored...

To quote an old saying..

\'\'It\'s not the size of the Dog in the fight, but rather, the size of the fight in the Dog...\'\'

GilFenerty · 03-13-2005, 12:44 PM

id rather have bradie james.

03-12-2005, 11:54 PM	#41
bayouking318 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 209	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) I am against the trade unless it is a swap of 1st. rd picks and a second rd. pick instead of dat Nyguen. Hopefully with the 11th pick DJ will be there but at worst Shawn Merriman will be there and if they don\'t want Shawn they can at least trade down for more picks.

03-13-2005, 12:04 AM	#42
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) the fresh howard talks have infused some fresh hope to me. i love him and think he is a stud. but no team can afford top 5 pay to a de that is in a 3 man rotation. it most imperative to move him. not anything at all about at all him but simply for cap relief. money for signing deuce, lecharles, and/or joe. i am not an expert on nguyen but it is hard to think he will not be a sum total upgrade over allen with the 2 sophmores. hodge is gone, so besides not much experience in starters the lb depth is very scary imo. hearing several teams interested is very good. these guys are really good at pimping me just enough to keep hoping against hope. right on bean counter loom man. i pour another drink to you tonight. maybe the gods of parity will yet shine upon another bourbon street playoff team.

03-13-2005, 12:57 AM	#43
TheJudge 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 100	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) in think he is a great LB>.. has a knack for the football... nice upgrade...
TheJudge 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 100

03-13-2005, 01:15 AM	#44
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) There are two sides to every story someone thinking someone else got the better in of the deal. I thought it was suspisious that we got a player and a second rounder for Howard. The most I head we could get was a second or a third and thats it. Anything can happen. Now desperation going to set in... I still say we are going to be stuck with him this year.

03-13-2005, 04:53 AM	#45
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) I\'ll thankfully confess I haven\'t suffered the misfortune of force-fed Cowboys games - living in Birmingham, I get the Buzzards or Titans instead - but I\'ve seen Nguyen play enough over the last few seasons. Can\'t call him a star, but he\'s productive and seems reasonably durable. Throw in the 2nd rounder and this deal can\'t be denied. I\'m not thrilled about him, but it fits a desperate need. As for the \"size\" issue - ehh ... that sounds odd - I dunno what everybody\'s so worked up about. Tale of the tape: Dat Nguyen - 5\'11, 238 lbs. 2004 stats: 16 gms, 107 tackles, 1 sack, 3 ints, 2 pass def Courtney Watson - 6\'1, 246 lbs. 2004 stats: 12 gms, 57 tackles, 2 sacks, 0 ints, 3 pass def Orlando Ruff - 6\'3, 253 lbs. 2004 stats: 14 gms 79 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 int, 2 pass def I know Watson was a rookie, and that Ruff is ... well, Orlando Ruff ... but Nguyen was almost as productive as both combined. Appears he\'s no less a liability in the passing game than the other two (in fact, he had 11 pass def in 2003). B**ing over 5\'11 as opposed to 6\'1 sounds about like b**ing over a 4.6 dash as opposed to a 4.4. Again, he isn\'t my first choice either, but I can\'t think of any reason to pass this deal up.

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03-13-2005, 09:59 AM	#46
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Mutey, It is less encouraging that Nguyen is only almost as good as Watson and Ruff combined; since they split the time in the middle, they should have combined to be an average LB - unless the two of them in tandem are better than an average LB? Hmmm. I agree that Nguyen\'s stats are solid. I even think he\'s proven he can play the middle without a strong run defense in front of him. I like him. The difference between a 4.4 and a 4.6 (as well as two inches) can be pretty significant though, so I\'m going to have to disagree with you on that one. Of course, I do agree that those kind of differences are the kind that can be made up for with savvy and skill, so point taken.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-13-2005, 10:35 AM	#47
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) SO what I am hearing so far is that we all are pretty split on the idea of this trade. I also see that some people seem to think we should be getting a first round pick for Howard. I can go either way on Dat but I don\'t see us getting a first rounder especially since we need to move him by tomorrow.

03-13-2005, 10:41 AM	#48
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Seems like I read somewhere that movement at .1 second is imperceptable to the human eye. It was some article questioning why people get so worked up about 40-yard dash times. A couple of inches is certainly more perceptable, and I can see the disadvantages in pass coverage. Some TE\'s he\'d be asked to cover are 6\'4 or better, so maybe I was a little premature in my judgment there. I\'ve been bashing Fred Thomas for being too short to cover many WR\'s, so I guess I\'m forced to acknowledge height as a factor with Nguyen, too. As for the savvy and skill stuff, we agree...

03-13-2005, 12:29 PM	#49
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) I\'ve never been too hung up on size...I agree it holds relevance, but not to the extent that someone who is 2 inches shorter than Ideal should be ignored... To quote an old saying.. \'\'It\'s not the size of the Dog in the fight, but rather, the size of the fight in the Dog...\'\'
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

03-13-2005, 12:44 PM	#50
GilFenerty Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 61	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) id rather have bradie james.