Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats

saintswhodi · 03-24-2005, 05:44 PM

I don\'t even know how this turned into a discussion about the 2nd and 3rd WRs.

That\'s not all you don\'t know.

shadowdrinker · 03-24-2005, 05:45 PM

Personally..I don\'t feel like Brooks has really been any more one sided toward Horn than any other Qb towards thier #1 guy...

28% just isn\'t a big enough slice to say he was only focused on that one guy...

But, when you figure we have 3 WR\'s, a TE, and a RB..on any given play

That\'s 5 potential recievers...an equal percentage would be 20%...then the argument could be made that perhaps Brooks favors Horn to a slight degree over most of the other options...but not to the extent of saying he is only locked in on him...

So..It\'s sort of a tie you guys...I think you both gave me great insight on a few numbers today..for what it\'s worth

JKool · 03-24-2005, 05:46 PM

Here is a way of thinking about this dispute:

Let\'s say QB A throws 15 passes. 5 to WR A, 1 to B, 1 to C, 1 to D, 1 to E, and so on.

QB B throws 15 passes. 5 to WR A, 4 to B, 3 to C, 1 to D, and so on.

We might say that QB A locked on to WR A, since he threw 33% of his passes to him. Of course, so did QB B. Do these distributions simply not matter at all? 66% of passes were thrown to players other than WR A.

Let\'s say that the league average is 33% of passes to the number one WR.

How does either position - the one that thinks that the overall passes thrown to WR A vs the other receivers OR the one that thinks that who got the ball (i.e. who got it when A didn\'t) - show that the QB was locked on or not locked on?

It seems to me that, in the abstract, neither view says much about whether WR A was locked on to. Could someone please fill in the blanks for me?

saintswhodi · 03-24-2005, 05:51 PM

I think Kool, that is where you look at how these other QBs ditribute to their other guys to make a determination. Which I did. But it\'s moot to me. If you guys wanna carry on, have at it. I had my fun with Gumbo, and he had his fun with me. I presented it as best I thought I could, and provided other QBs distributions to show the disparity. But whatever.

baronm · 03-24-2005, 06:08 PM

I think the real response is the JOE HORN inflates AARON BROOKS\' stats.

Saint_LB · 03-24-2005, 06:09 PM

My two-cents, again. I think it is rather obvious, If Gumbo\'s numbers are right, and they must be because Sw hasn\'t disputed them, that Gumbo makes a good point that 28% of all the balls thrown by AB going to Joe is not a lopsided number. So, if the argument is that AB throws only to Horn, then that is not true. However, if the argument is that when AB does throw to Horn, he locks-in on him for the duration of the route, then that statement, IMHO, is most definitely true.
I would like to get a total definition of \"locking-in\" before I draw any conclusions.

I\'ll tell you something else. If I were AB, I would be looking in Joe\'s direction often. Joe has two traits that make him an all-pro, and one of them ain\'t speed. He has great hands and he has the ability to get open. I think there is a difference between being quick and being fast. If you have quick, precise moves, you can leave a corner standing in his tracks. How many times have you seen Joe with a couple yards separation between him and the nearest defender. I\'d be looking for him, too.

Joe, according to the numbers, is either now, or soon to be if he\'s not traded, the all-time leading receiver. (For the Saints, that is.) I\'m just guessing, but I would imagine a lot of the records he will be breaking will be Danny Abramowicz\' records. Now that was a guy with no speed at all, but all he did was get open.

saintz08 · 03-24-2005, 06:39 PM

Gumbo BC

AB threw the ball to JOE HORN 28.2 % of the time. Get this people ... That means AB threw the ball some where other than to JOE HORN 71.8% of the time.

How many ball did horn drop ???

GumboBC · 03-24-2005, 06:41 PM

saintz08 --

I don\'t know. And I\'m almost scared to ask ... but ... WHY?

duece4pres · 03-25-2005, 02:27 AM

THe bottom line is this fellas:::::
Joe Hollywood Horn had 94 catches for 1399 yards and 11 td\'s. There is only one person better than him this year. Just face it everyone, Horn is the man!! STATS will prove it.

03-24-2005, 05:44 PM	#71
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats I don\'t even know how this turned into a discussion about the 2nd and 3rd WRs. That\'s not all you don\'t know.

03-24-2005, 05:45 PM	#72
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Personally..I don\'t feel like Brooks has really been any more one sided toward Horn than any other Qb towards thier #1 guy... 28% just isn\'t a big enough slice to say he was only focused on that one guy... But, when you figure we have 3 WR\'s, a TE, and a RB..on any given play That\'s 5 potential recievers...an equal percentage would be 20%...then the argument could be made that perhaps Brooks favors Horn to a slight degree over most of the other options...but not to the extent of saying he is only locked in on him... So..It\'s sort of a tie you guys...I think you both gave me great insight on a few numbers today..for what it\'s worth
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

03-24-2005, 05:46 PM	#73
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Here is a way of thinking about this dispute: Let\'s say QB A throws 15 passes. 5 to WR A, 1 to B, 1 to C, 1 to D, 1 to E, and so on. QB B throws 15 passes. 5 to WR A, 4 to B, 3 to C, 1 to D, and so on. We might say that QB A locked on to WR A, since he threw 33% of his passes to him. Of course, so did QB B. Do these distributions simply not matter at all? 66% of passes were thrown to players other than WR A. Let\'s say that the league average is 33% of passes to the number one WR. How does either position - the one that thinks that the overall passes thrown to WR A vs the other receivers OR the one that thinks that who got the ball (i.e. who got it when A didn\'t) - show that the QB was locked on or not locked on? It seems to me that, in the abstract, neither view says much about whether WR A was locked on to. Could someone please fill in the blanks for me?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-24-2005, 05:51 PM	#74
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats I think Kool, that is where you look at how these other QBs ditribute to their other guys to make a determination. Which I did. But it\'s moot to me. If you guys wanna carry on, have at it. I had my fun with Gumbo, and he had his fun with me. I presented it as best I thought I could, and provided other QBs distributions to show the disparity. But whatever.

03-24-2005, 06:08 PM	#75
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats I think the real response is the JOE HORN inflates AARON BROOKS\' stats.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

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03-24-2005, 06:09 PM	#76
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats My two-cents, again. I think it is rather obvious, If Gumbo\'s numbers are right, and they must be because Sw hasn\'t disputed them, that Gumbo makes a good point that 28% of all the balls thrown by AB going to Joe is not a lopsided number. So, if the argument is that AB throws only to Horn, then that is not true. However, if the argument is that when AB does throw to Horn, he locks-in on him for the duration of the route, then that statement, IMHO, is most definitely true. I would like to get a total definition of \"locking-in\" before I draw any conclusions. I\'ll tell you something else. If I were AB, I would be looking in Joe\'s direction often. Joe has two traits that make him an all-pro, and one of them ain\'t speed. He has great hands and he has the ability to get open. I think there is a difference between being quick and being fast. If you have quick, precise moves, you can leave a corner standing in his tracks. How many times have you seen Joe with a couple yards separation between him and the nearest defender. I\'d be looking for him, too. Joe, according to the numbers, is either now, or soon to be if he\'s not traded, the all-time leading receiver. (For the Saints, that is.) I\'m just guessing, but I would imagine a lot of the records he will be breaking will be Danny Abramowicz\' records. Now that was a guy with no speed at all, but all he did was get open.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

03-24-2005, 06:39 PM	#77
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Gumbo BC AB threw the ball to JOE HORN 28.2 % of the time. Get this people ... That means AB threw the ball some where other than to JOE HORN 71.8% of the time. How many ball did horn drop ???
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

03-24-2005, 06:41 PM	#78
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats saintz08 -- I don\'t know. And I\'m almost scared to ask ... but ... WHY?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-25-2005, 02:27 AM	#79
duece4pres Biloxi Bandit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: biloxi, ms Posts: 293	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats THe bottom line is this fellas::::: Joe Hollywood Horn had 94 catches for 1399 yards and 11 td\'s. There is only one person better than him this year. Just face it everyone, Horn is the man!! STATS will prove it.