It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

dizzle88 · 09-19-2017, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat.

I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs.

Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up.
One of the excuses was "who else is there?"

Which once again I'll turn to Oakland for my example, Jack Del rio did sweet f-all in Jacksonville for years due to management that kept his responsibilities in check.

Sean Payton has been given free reign to do whatever he wants and for results, look at the last 4 years.

Now Del Rio went to Oakland, formed a defensive that relies on front 4 pressure centered around Kalil Mack and has Derek Carr who is going to be a stud for years to come.

Now Del Rio has been in Oakland for 3 years I believe, he has turned them from a 3 win a year organisation, to a top 5 team and perennial playoff team.

All that in the time we have continually gone 7-9 and been unable to stop tripping over our own feet.

My main point is, when Oakland signed Del Rio, many fans thought "he wasn't that good in Jacksonville" and look what happened.

No one is irreplaceable, especially Payton.

neugey · 09-19-2017, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up.
One of the excuses was "who else is there?"

Right. I feel like for 3-4 years we resisted firing Payton out of fear. Fear that he would go to another team and be great for someone else.

Decisions made primarily out of fear usually aren't good ones.

AsylumGuido · 09-19-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

that would have been the best suited trading partner prior to Watson. I think they're dug in

Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.

neugey · 09-19-2017, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I also think the 'Brees doesn't want to go through a rebuild' narrative is a little presumptuous. Changing coaches is hardly a death sentence. The last two times we did it, we made the playoffs. Brees is loyal to Payton/Loomis but he also knows the NFL is a business. The rest of team needs and would benefit from his continued leadership.

Mardigras9 · 09-19-2017, 10:37 AM

Move on from Drew Brees, LOL, whatever.

hagan714 · 09-19-2017, 10:39 AM

wait till game 8 before burning down the house

burningmetal · 09-19-2017, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat.

I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs.

Agreed. Payton and Loomis are the common denominator, as far as I see it, and not much else is likely to work with them in place, given how things have been.

I do think we needed to make the changes we've made, and that DA is not the answer for our defense, but in order to get the right people in place and reinstate the kind of institutional control that you need to have to run a successful organization, it has to start at the top. No question.

RaginCajun83 · 09-19-2017, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Don't cut bait. We've got new leadership throughout this team. Our new additions have all been beneficial. Whether they are coaches, players or front office. It's a new team that needs time to become a collective unit.

I believe that Payton needs to be reigned in and let Loomis be an accountant and have a real football GM.

They hired Ireland to be the talent evaluator role of GM

73Saint · 09-19-2017, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

They hired Ireland to be the talent evaluator role of GM

Not to derail the thread, but you just indirectly pointed out our biggest problem. What we need is a COACHING talent evaluator. Where can we get one of them?

K Major · 09-19-2017, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by 73Saint

Not to derail the thread, but you just indirectly pointed out our biggest problem. What we need is a COACHING talent evaluator. Where can we get one of them?

Omar Khan.

He's a smart guy (Tulane educated), home grown and has a solid track record.

09-19-2017, 08:08 AM	#41
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by spkb25 I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat. I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs. Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up. One of the excuses was "who else is there?" Which once again I'll turn to Oakland for my example, Jack Del rio did sweet f-all in Jacksonville for years due to management that kept his responsibilities in check. Sean Payton has been given free reign to do whatever he wants and for results, look at the last 4 years. Now Del Rio went to Oakland, formed a defensive that relies on front 4 pressure centered around Kalil Mack and has Derek Carr who is going to be a stud for years to come. Now Del Rio has been in Oakland for 3 years I believe, he has turned them from a 3 win a year organisation, to a top 5 team and perennial playoff team. All that in the time we have continually gone 7-9 and been unable to stop tripping over our own feet. My main point is, when Oakland signed Del Rio, many fans thought "he wasn't that good in Jacksonville" and look what happened. No one is irreplaceable, especially Payton. spkb25 and rezburna like this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

09-19-2017, 08:17 AM	#42
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by dizzle88 Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up. One of the excuses was "who else is there?" Right. I feel like for 3-4 years we resisted firing Payton out of fear. Fear that he would go to another team and be great for someone else. Decisions made primarily out of fear usually aren't good ones. rezburna likes this.

09-19-2017, 08:31 AM	#43
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by spkb25 that would have been the best suited trading partner prior to Watson. I think they're dug in Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions. neugey, jeanpierre and skymike like this.

09-19-2017, 10:29 AM	#44
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions. Thanks for pointing that out. I also think the 'Brees doesn't want to go through a rebuild' narrative is a little presumptuous. Changing coaches is hardly a death sentence. The last two times we did it, we made the playoffs. Brees is loyal to Payton/Loomis but he also knows the NFL is a business. The rest of team needs and would benefit from his continued leadership.

09-19-2017, 10:37 AM	#45
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Move on from Drew Brees, LOL, whatever. skymike likes this.

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09-19-2017, 10:39 AM	#46
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees wait till game 8 before burning down the house AsylumGuido likes this.

09-19-2017, 11:39 AM	#47
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by spkb25 I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat. I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs. Agreed. Payton and Loomis are the common denominator, as far as I see it, and not much else is likely to work with them in place, given how things have been. I do think we needed to make the changes we've made, and that DA is not the answer for our defense, but in order to get the right people in place and reinstate the kind of institutional control that you need to have to run a successful organization, it has to start at the top. No question. spkb25 likes this.

09-19-2017, 01:03 PM	#48
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Don't cut bait. We've got new leadership throughout this team. Our new additions have all been beneficial. Whether they are coaches, players or front office. It's a new team that needs time to become a collective unit. I believe that Payton needs to be reigned in and let Loomis be an accountant and have a real football GM. They hired Ireland to be the talent evaluator role of GM

09-19-2017, 01:35 PM	#49
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 They hired Ireland to be the talent evaluator role of GM Not to derail the thread, but you just indirectly pointed out our biggest problem. What we need is a COACHING talent evaluator. Where can we get one of them?

09-19-2017, 01:54 PM	#50
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by 73Saint Not to derail the thread, but you just indirectly pointed out our biggest problem. What we need is a COACHING talent evaluator. Where can we get one of them? Omar Khan. He's a smart guy (Tulane educated), home grown and has a solid track record.

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