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Why pick a qb?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by jergensl it is a falacy(sp) to try to gauge success based off of where someone was picked. each is a unique situation and there are many other factors that contributed to many of those listed being busts. ...

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Old 01-15-2006, 10:36 AM   #51
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Re: RE: Re: RE: re: papz

Originally Posted by jergensl
it is a falacy(sp) to try to gauge success based off of where someone was picked. each is a unique situation and there are many other factors that contributed to many of those listed being busts.

to talk about a few:
Jeff George-was a solid qb over the years, but had a serious attitude problem that caused most of his failures on the field.
Heath Shuler-way over hyped at tennesse. scouts listened far too much to those volunteer fans instead of their eyes.
Ryan Leaf-played in a weak conference, was overhyped for 1 great year and 1 good year. had an attitude problem.
Tim Couch-played at kentucky. should be enough said. played in a spread pass happy offense and that was the only reason why he had anywhere close to the numbers he did. if he would have been selected in the 3 or 4th round and got a year or 2 on the bench he might have been a solid back up or decent starter.
Akili Smith -1 great year in the weak Pac-10. this was a no brainner even back when he was drafted.
Michael Vick-some consider him a bust for a #1 pick, but he is exactly what he was advertised as...a game changer. he will never be a qb in the traditional sense, instead he will always be a guy who can change a game with his athletecism and do enough with his arm to get by.
David Carr -i think carr is far from a bust. having nfl ticket, i have watched a lot of his games and he does very well when he has more than 2 seconds to throw the ball.
Joey Harrington-only had 1 great year in the weak Pac-10, but he has looked good at times. he will never prove to be worthy of a top 10 pick, but he could become a solid backup or servicable starter in the future.
Eli Manning-he has been a major success.
Alex Smith-way to early to judge yet. was not rated nearly as high as leinart. had only 1 great year and 1 good year in WAC or Pac-10(can't remember what conference Utah is in right now) both are weak conferences. with a good offensive line, good running game, and continued growth of lloyd he could be very good.
Jeff George solid????
Eli a major success???
What????
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Old 01-15-2006, 10:56 AM   #52
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: re: papz

the logic I hear is that taking a QB in the first round is too risky. My logic is that the whole friggin draft is a risk no matter what place they are taken in. You pick according to your need or the highest graded person at your pick and cross your fingers and hope that he doesn't get hurt, hold out for another team, or gets busted selling crack. Yeah we need a lot of posistions filled but we get no refunds or exchanges if he is a bust. Just the nature of the game. That being said no-one wants brooks or Bouman to start next year and the QB's we've seen this year are worth taking the chance on for a #2 pick. Stop talking your way out of a high pick, grow some nuts and take a francise QB. Hell we can still pick up another QB in a later round just for bakup purposes.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:24 AM   #53
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: re: papz

The draft is a risk u are right. A franchise QB is always great but if we go that route we are going to have to very aggressive in FA and tweek the offensive line abit to protect the $$$$ on that QB. That maybe why the Tags is out to give us all the FA we can get and minimize the cap penility. I am for picks and defense but i do not see the Tags allowing it. Tommy Boy is Tags #1 b**ch right now. POSITIVE PUBLICITY is Tags #1 goal for the saints and for the NFL. He has to clean-up Tommy boy's mess from this year. Tag does not like what Tommy Boy has done to the NFL image. Amazing how quick he put an end to the moving out and all of a sudden the Dome will be ready for the 2006 opener. Must have an out of state contractor to do the work.

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Old 01-15-2006, 11:27 AM   #54
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: re: papz

yeah grow some nuts you pansies...hahahahaha nice post lynwood i absolutly agree.

Jeff George solid????
Eli a major success???
What????
jeff george was a solid qb over his career. he was never great or even really good, but he was a solid qb.

eli has been a major success for being in his 2nd year of starting. he helped to take his team to the playoffs in his second year. if lwould be very happy if leinart had the same success in his 2nd year and leinart is ranked higher than eli was when he came out.

well atleast i scored an 80% in your book and maybe a 90% if you agree eli helped manage his team to a playoff birth.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:31 AM   #55
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: re: papz

Ok... let's see... I'm going to take out the last 2, because they don't have enough playing time to have a fair assessment. So, including Vick, who's not a good QB but has had some success, I count 6 succcessful QBs out of 14 . . I dare say that the chances of having a succcessful QB pick in the top 3 are probably less than 43%
A curious factoid: you can find only 1 Superbowl ring among all of the above, and it belongs to Bledsoe, who got it while sitting on the bench watching Brady play .
Good Post Reiper but here some more facts if anyone wants to consider drafting a #1 or #2 QB. Don't just consider the starting QB in the superbowl, look at the opposing QB too. How may #1's do you see and I bet even less #2's?

The Super Bowl's Starting Quarterbacks
(*) = age at time of Super Bowl
I - 1/15/67
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - Alabama (*33)
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Purdue (31)

II - 1/14/68
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - Alabama (34)
Daryle Lamonica, Oakland Raiders - Notre Dame (26)

III - 1/12/69
Joe Namath, New York Jets - Alabama (25)
Earl Morrall, Baltimore Colts - Michigan State (34)

IV - 1/11/70
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Purdue (34)
Joe Kapp, Minnesota Vikings - California (31)

V - 1/17/71
Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - Louisville (37)
Craig Morton, Dallas Cowboys - California (27)

VI - 1/16/72
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (29)
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (26)

VII - 1/14/73
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (27)
Bill Kilmer, Washington Redskins - UCLA (33)

VIII - 1/13/74
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (28)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (33)

IX - 1/12/75
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (26)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (34)

X - 1/18/76
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (27)
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (33)

XI - 1/9/77
Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - Alabama (31)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (36)

XII - 1/15/78
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (35)
Craig Morton, Denver Broncos - California (34)

XIII - 1/21/79
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (30)
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (36)

XIV - 1/20/80
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (31)
Vince Ferragamo, Los Angeles Rams - California, Nebraska (25)

XV - 1/25/81
Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - Stanford (33)
Ron Jaworski, Philadelphia Eagles - Youngstown State (29)

XVI - 1/24/82
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (25)
Ken Anderson, Cincinnati Bengals - Augustana (IL) (32)

XVII - 1/30/83
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - Notre Dame (33)
David Woodley, Miami Dolphins - Louisiana State (24)

XVIII - 1/22/84
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - Stanford (36)
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - Notre Dame (34)

XIX - 1/20/85
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (28)
Dan Marino, Miami Dolphins - Pittsburgh (23)

XX - 1/26/86
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - BYU (26)
Tony Eason, New England Patriots - Illinois (26)

XXI - 1/25/87
Phil Simms, New York Giants - Morehead State (32)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (26)

XXII - 1/31/88
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - Grambling (32)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (27)

XXIII - 1/22/89
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (32)
Boomer Esiason, Cincinnati Bengals - Maryland (27)

XXIV - 1/28/90
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (33)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (29)

XXV - 1/27/91
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - West Virginia (29)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (30)

XXVI - 1/26/92
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - Washington State (30)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (31)

XXVII - 1/31/93
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (26)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (32)

XXVIII - 1/30/94
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (27)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (33)

XXIX - 1/29/95
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - BYU (33)
Stan Humphries, San Diego Chargers - NE Louisiana (29)

XXX - 1/28/96
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (29)
Neil O'Donnell, Pittsburgh Steelers - Maryland (29)

XXXI - 1/26/97
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Southern Mississippi (27)
Drew Bledsoe, New England Patriots - Washington State (24)

XXXII - 1/25/98
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (37)
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Southern Mississippi (28)

XXXIII - 1/31/99
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (38)
Chris Chandler, Atlanta Falcons - Washington (33)

XXXIV - 1/30/00
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - Northern Iowa (28)
Steve McNair, Tennessee Titans - Alcorn State (26)

XXXV - 1/28/01
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - Fresno State (28)
Kerry Collins, New York Giants - Penn State (28)

XXXVI - 2/3/02
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (24)
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - Northern Iowa (30)

XXXVII - 1/26/03
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Florida State (34)
Rich Gannon, Oakland Raiders - Delaware (37)

XXXVIII - 2/1/04
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (26)
Jake Delhomme, Carolina Panthers - Louisiana-Lafayette (29)

XXXVIX - 2/6/05
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (27)
Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia - Syracuse (28)

Remember guys there are 78 names on this list and four of them Elway, Plunkett, Aikman and Bradshaw were drafted #1. I don't think the odds are in favor of anyone drafting a QB at #1 or #2.

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Old 01-15-2006, 11:45 AM   #56
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qb can be found in later rounds

This is a reply to anyone who says that there are no franchise qb's outside the 1st round. I hope I am not repeating anyone else's post...Matt Hasselbeck (6th round), Marc Bulger (6th round), Tom Brady (6th round), Jack Delhomme (undrafted), and trent green (8th round, not making it up). Interestingly enough, two of those qbs were drafted or signed by the saints as rookies.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:46 AM   #57
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: re: papz

chermy,
i love you and all, but you are a little misguided here. talent evaluation and the draft has changed a lot over the past 40years. if you look at the recent superbowls there are a bunch of those little happy faces (6 since '98).

saying that, i don't think getting to a superbowl is a good judge of the success of a qb. collins made it to a superbowl and he is trash. marino only made it to 1 superbowl and he is one of the all time greats. making it to a super bowl is an overall team effort. we should not pick leinart because he alone will take us to a superbowl, but because he can manage and lead an offense to a very successful season. i agree with you defense is a VITAL part of a great team. right now we have a better than average defense and with a little coaching and a few small pickups we can be a top 10 defense. see my other post for that.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:48 AM   #58
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RE: qb can be found in later rounds

This is a reply to anyone who says that there are no franchise qb's outside the 1st round. I hope I am not repeating anyone else's post...Matt Hasselbeck (6th round), Marc Bulger (6th round), Tom Brady (6th round), Jack Delhomme (undrafted), and trent green (8th round, not making it up). Interestingly enough, two of those qbs were drafted or signed by the saints as rookies.
Good Post 623 and when was Montana, Staubach, Namath, Starr and the list goes on........

There are alot of us that believe just what you are saying.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:50 AM   #59
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RE: qb can be found in later rounds

i agree with you 623 there are some good qbs in late rounds.
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Old 01-15-2006, 11:57 AM   #60
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RE: qb can be found in later rounds

saying that, i don't think getting to a superbowl is a good judge of the success of a qb. collins made it to a superbowl and he is trash. marino only made it to 1 superbowl and he is one of the all time greats. making it to a super bowl is an overall team effort. we should not pick leinart because he alone will take us to a superbowl, but because he can manage and lead an offense to a very successful season. i agree with you defense is a VITAL part of a great team. right now we have a better than average defense and with a little coaching and a few small pickups we can be a top 10 defense. see my other post for that.
So what you are saying is it only takes an average QB and a great defense to win the superbowl? That's exactly what I have been saying all along.
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