Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted

burningmetal · 02-11-2014, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

but what they are, is discriminated against, just like the black community you mention

Scott, are you certain you know what discrimination is? Let me use an analogy. I know from arguments on the political forum that you are a liberal, and you may remember that I am a conservative. In other words, we disagree with each other's beliefs. Are we discriminating against each other, then?

There are no companies or restaurants who are shutting their doors to gays. They simply do not support the gay rights movement as many of them are christian organizations, as Sapper has pointed out. There is no comparison between that and someone burning down your house because they "don't like your kind". No what I mean?

ScottF · 02-13-2014, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Scott, are you certain you know what discrimination is? Let me use an analogy. I know from arguments on the political forum that you are a liberal, and you may remember that I am a conservative. In other words, we disagree with each other's beliefs. Are we discriminating against each other, then?

There are no companies or restaurants who are shutting their doors to gays. They simply do not support the gay rights movement as many of them are christian organizations, as Sapper has pointed out. There is no comparison between that and someone burning down your house because they "don't like your kind". No what I mean?

I never said restaurants were denying service. In fact, I said the exact opposite in regards to customers.

Chick-fil-a is anti-gay. Dan Cathy has publicly stated that. The company has contributed to anti-gay groups. That is documented. But you guys come at me like this is just my opinion, when the company in question has OPENLY STATED IT.

Here is their statement of their policies moving forward, as in, 'we didn't do this before, but...'

Chick-fil-A has "ceased donating to organizations that promote discrimination , specifically against LGBT civil rights." According to the TCRA, Chick-fil-A officials stated in an internal document that they " will treat every person equally, regardless of sexual orientation."

So, they have CEASED supporting groups that discriminate, and now WILL treat everyone equally (future tense)

Yes, I do know what discrimination is, especially when it is documented so clearly.

You patronize the businesses you want, and I'll do the same. I'm thinking that is granted to us somewhere in the constitution.

TheOak · 02-13-2014, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

You patronize the businesses you want, and I'll do the same. I'm thinking that is granted to us somewhere in the constitution.

That would be the First Amendment, that governs expression and speech. It also encompasses religious beliefs. Which is what Dan Cathy was practicing.

He does seem to be being discriminated against based on his Southern Baptist beliefs.

Interesting how there is support for ones freedom to express being gay but not another freedom to express his religion.

No?

Mardigras9 · 02-11-2014, 09:31 AM

I can see why he went ahead and proclaimed his choice now to avoid having to try to hide it maybe later. He came out to his college team mates already so obviously he is just interested in being himself, and good for him there.
However, it may affect his draft status because now the team that takes him knows he comes with a media circus (at least for a while), and what team wants even more drama than most of them already have.

I would love to say who really cares, but people still do, as you can see from this post alone. There is a lot of drama in every locker room in the NFL (see Richie Incognito), and this will bring some rather we think there should be or not.

TheOak · 02-11-2014, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

but what they are, is discriminated against, just like the black community you mention

Lack of support does not equate to discrimination. Gays are served at Chick fil et just like everyone else . They employ them, and let them use the same restrooms. Have you been to one?

So while Chick fil et' gets beat in the press for stating they believe marriage is between a man and a woman, Starbucks gets support in the press for saying they believe marriage is between a man and a man. Differing opinions, neither right or wrong... Just differing.

Gays, blacks, Catholics, Hummer owners, professional athletes, polices officers, do not need acceptance and support. People that lack self confidence and self esteem do.

At one time American Soldiers were spit on when returning from Vietnam because people didn't agree.... Today American Soldiers are treated like pawns on a chess board by our politicians, where is all the outrage?

ScottF · 02-11-2014, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Lack of support does not equate to discrimination.
you are correct; two completely different issues, but the fact remains that CFA has had numerous suits that they lost or settled based on discrimination. Yes, every company has suits against it, but CFA is a relatively small compared to their industry. As a result, CFA has revisited and cut back on charities they sponsor
Gays are served at Chick fil et just like everyone else . They employ them, and let them use the same restrooms. Have you been to one?

Not in years, but that is just me exercising my right. I don't buy gas at BP or Exxon either

.

TheOak · 02-11-2014, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

.

Here, I will paint a picture for you.

A Catholic, ARMY veteran, lives in Texas, works for Halliburton servicing BP. Care to guess how many levels of persecution he faces in the media daily?

Maccondo happens, and then starts the boycott of BP, and Halliburton.
Care to guess who loses his job because of the boycotts and shut down of the drilling and completion industry?

Neither BP nor Halliburton were hurt by boycotts but thousands of Louisiana and Texas residents that have jobs in the oil and gas industry lost their jobs.
Guess who came to their assistance when they were out of work?

Banks, Insurance companies, Auto makers, farmers that plant in areas where things do not grow, all get bailed out. The Oil and Gas industry gets no such sustenance.

Thanks for your boycott and lack of concern for anything but activism, and continuous persecution.

My family and I made it through that period., just like we made it through the downturn in 2006.

Dont sweat it though, I do not take it personally... Its the law of unintended consequence when people act upon an emotion rather than a thought out idea.

ScottF · 02-11-2014, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Here, I will paint a picture for you.

Neither BP nor Halliburton were hurt by boycotts but thousands of Louisiana and Texas residents that have jobs in the oil and gas industry lost their jobs.
Guess who came to their assistance when they were out of work?

Banks, Insurance companies, Auto makers, farmers that plant in areas where things do not grow, all get bailed out. The Oil and Gas industry gets no such sustenance.

Thanks for your boycott and lack of concern for anything but activism, and continuous persecution.

My family and I made it through that period., just like we made it through the downturn in 2006.

So you place the blame on a customer boycott instead of BP's negligence.
And I should forgo my rights and ideals for other's economic gain.

I don't support CFA because of their promotion record with gays, women and minorities.
I don't support BP because of their malfeasance with Deepwater.
A 'lack of concern' would be if I did not care how these corporations operate, and blindly patronized them without regard to my own ideals.
If you read that as activism, or somehow persecution, so be it.

TheOak · 02-11-2014, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

So you place the blame on a customer boycott instead of BP's negligence.
And I should forgo my rights and ideals for other's economic gain.

I don't support CFA because of their promotion record with gays, women and minorities.
I don't support BP because of their malfeasance with Deepwater.
A 'lack of concern' would be if I did not care how these corporations operate, and blindly patronized them without regard to my own ideals.
If you read that as activism, or somehow persecution, so be it.

Lets not go neck deep into the assumption pool. I never made one comment about blame for Maccondo. I know what caused it, and I know what it caused.

Idealists and activists go hand in hand but are not always understanding of the impact of what they do. Your ideals are hurting the people in your community, not BP. While I am sure it is unintentional your hurting the working man and not the Corporation.

In 2008 BP began the exit of the outright ownership of BP gas stations, at that time it owned maybe 100 of the 1000 BP gas stations in operation. Meaning that BP gas station you drive by is owned by a small business man in your community... ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips did the same thing. When you boycott a gas station in your city you are doing absolutely nothing to BP, you are however doing a grave injustice to the John Smith that owns that convince store/gas station and is trying to make a living providing a service and a product to your community.

Are you avoiding BP gasoline by avoiding BP gas stations? Nope. Distributors buy gasoline from wholesale refiners that refine oil from many different suppliers and sell it to many different distributors. Meaning you have as much of a chance of buying gasoline refined from BP oil at a Valero as you do a BP gas station.

You see, oil is oil and it all goes to the same refineries. At those refineries it is processed into different grades of gasoline and diesel. From there it goes to distribution companies where additives are added and then it is sold to retail gas stations.

So when you see... never mind I will make it easy. Can you name 151 different gasoline brands?

Category:Oil companies of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Category:Oil companies of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ironic isn't it that you try to hurt thousands in your community for the transgressions of a select group of no more than seven people that endangered the lively hood of hundreds of thousands and drive past a BP station burning gas that has been refined from BP oil. BTW, that very small select group of engineers and middle management level employees did what they did with out the knowledge of upper level executives.

And here we are nearly 3 years after Maccondo, I am telling you this not because it has any effect on me what so ever, but because the business owners in your community that support it do not deserve to be persecuted for something they had nothing to do with. You may want to give the owners of those CFA's a break also, those restaurants are not owned by CFA, they are franchises owned by people that live in your community that woke up shocked by the same press release you did, and CFA isn't hurt by your drive by.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-11-2014, 11:34 AM

Hmmm...

Funny anecdote:

My very dear mother-in-law (I mean that, I loved that woman), God rest her soul, she was a Realtor. Her given first name and middle name were Sally Gay. She went by her middle name and married last name, which was Cash. So, her Realty add said: Gay Cash. She usually fielded calls from people asking her if that meant there was some special offer for gay people, and while most people who didn't get that Gay Cash was her actual name were either a bit embarrassed from the misunderstanding or got a chuckle out of the explanation ("My first name is Gay, my last name Cash"), the praise / bash ratio was about even: some folks would praise her for keeping her name and her choice of lifestyle (and no she was not a lesbian), some folks would bash her for things like taking advantage of the word "gay" to promote herself, and her choice of lifestyle

02-11-2014, 11:32 PM	#1
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF but what they are, is discriminated against, just like the black community you mention Scott, are you certain you know what discrimination is? Let me use an analogy. I know from arguments on the political forum that you are a liberal, and you may remember that I am a conservative. In other words, we disagree with each other's beliefs. Are we discriminating against each other, then? There are no companies or restaurants who are shutting their doors to gays. They simply do not support the gay rights movement as many of them are christian organizations, as Sapper has pointed out. There is no comparison between that and someone burning down your house because they "don't like your kind". No what I mean? Danno and SapperSaint like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-13-2014, 01:33 PM	#2
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by burningmetal Scott, are you certain you know what discrimination is? Let me use an analogy. I know from arguments on the political forum that you are a liberal, and you may remember that I am a conservative. In other words, we disagree with each other's beliefs. Are we discriminating against each other, then? There are no companies or restaurants who are shutting their doors to gays. They simply do not support the gay rights movement as many of them are christian organizations, as Sapper has pointed out. There is no comparison between that and someone burning down your house because they "don't like your kind". No what I mean? I never said restaurants were denying service. In fact, I said the exact opposite in regards to customers. Chick-fil-a is anti-gay. Dan Cathy has publicly stated that. The company has contributed to anti-gay groups. That is documented. But you guys come at me like this is just my opinion, when the company in question has OPENLY STATED IT. Here is their statement of their policies moving forward, as in, 'we didn't do this before, but...' Chick-fil-A has "ceased donating to organizations that promote discrimination , specifically against LGBT civil rights." According to the TCRA, Chick-fil-A officials stated in an internal document that they " will treat every person equally, regardless of sexual orientation." So, they have CEASED supporting groups that discriminate, and now WILL treat everyone equally (future tense) Yes, I do know what discrimination is, especially when it is documented so clearly. You patronize the businesses you want, and I'll do the same. I'm thinking that is granted to us somewhere in the constitution.

02-13-2014, 02:48 PM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,050	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF You patronize the businesses you want, and I'll do the same. I'm thinking that is granted to us somewhere in the constitution. That would be the First Amendment, that governs expression and speech. It also encompasses religious beliefs. Which is what Dan Cathy was practicing. He does seem to be being discriminated against based on his Southern Baptist beliefs. Interesting how there is support for ones freedom to express being gay but not another freedom to express his religion. No?
	Last edited by TheOak; 02-13-2014 at 02:51 PM..

02-11-2014, 09:31 AM	#4
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted I can see why he went ahead and proclaimed his choice now to avoid having to try to hide it maybe later. He came out to his college team mates already so obviously he is just interested in being himself, and good for him there. However, it may affect his draft status because now the team that takes him knows he comes with a media circus (at least for a while), and what team wants even more drama than most of them already have. I would love to say who really cares, but people still do, as you can see from this post alone. There is a lot of drama in every locker room in the NFL (see Richie Incognito), and this will bring some rather we think there should be or not.
	"Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil." - Jerry Garcia

02-11-2014, 10:05 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,050	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF but what they are, is discriminated against, just like the black community you mention Lack of support does not equate to discrimination. Gays are served at Chick fil et just like everyone else . They employ them, and let them use the same restrooms. Have you been to one? So while Chick fil et' gets beat in the press for stating they believe marriage is between a man and a woman, Starbucks gets support in the press for saying they believe marriage is between a man and a man. Differing opinions, neither right or wrong... Just differing. Gays, blacks, Catholics, Hummer owners, professional athletes, polices officers, do not need acceptance and support. People that lack self confidence and self esteem do. At one time American Soldiers were spit on when returning from Vietnam because people didn't agree.... Today American Soldiers are treated like pawns on a chess board by our politicians, where is all the outrage? SapperSaint likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

02-11-2014, 10:30 AM	#6
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by TheOak Lack of support does not equate to discrimination. you are correct; two completely different issues, but the fact remains that CFA has had numerous suits that they lost or settled based on discrimination. Yes, every company has suits against it, but CFA is a relatively small compared to their industry. As a result, CFA has revisited and cut back on charities they sponsor Gays are served at Chick fil et just like everyone else . They employ them, and let them use the same restrooms. Have you been to one? Not in years, but that is just me exercising my right. I don't buy gas at BP or Exxon either .

02-11-2014, 10:51 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,050	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF . Here, I will paint a picture for you. A Catholic, ARMY veteran, lives in Texas, works for Halliburton servicing BP. Care to guess how many levels of persecution he faces in the media daily? Maccondo happens, and then starts the boycott of BP, and Halliburton. Care to guess who loses his job because of the boycotts and shut down of the drilling and completion industry? Neither BP nor Halliburton were hurt by boycotts but thousands of Louisiana and Texas residents that have jobs in the oil and gas industry lost their jobs. Guess who came to their assistance when they were out of work? Banks, Insurance companies, Auto makers, farmers that plant in areas where things do not grow, all get bailed out. The Oil and Gas industry gets no such sustenance. Thanks for your boycott and lack of concern for anything but activism, and continuous persecution. My family and I made it through that period., just like we made it through the downturn in 2006. Dont sweat it though, I do not take it personally... Its the law of unintended consequence when people act upon an emotion rather than a thought out idea. SapperSaint likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 02-11-2014 at 11:31 AM..

02-11-2014, 11:42 AM	#8
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by TheOak Here, I will paint a picture for you. Neither BP nor Halliburton were hurt by boycotts but thousands of Louisiana and Texas residents that have jobs in the oil and gas industry lost their jobs. Guess who came to their assistance when they were out of work? Banks, Insurance companies, Auto makers, farmers that plant in areas where things do not grow, all get bailed out. The Oil and Gas industry gets no such sustenance. Thanks for your boycott and lack of concern for anything but activism, and continuous persecution. My family and I made it through that period., just like we made it through the downturn in 2006. So you place the blame on a customer boycott instead of BP's negligence. And I should forgo my rights and ideals for other's economic gain. I don't support CFA because of their promotion record with gays, women and minorities. I don't support BP because of their malfeasance with Deepwater. A 'lack of concern' would be if I did not care how these corporations operate, and blindly patronized them without regard to my own ideals. If you read that as activism, or somehow persecution, so be it. Utah_Saint likes this.

02-11-2014, 11:34 AM	#10
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Hmmm... Funny anecdote: My very dear mother-in-law (I mean that, I loved that woman), God rest her soul, she was a Realtor. Her given first name and middle name were Sally Gay. She went by her middle name and married last name, which was Cash. So, her Realty add said: Gay Cash. She usually fielded calls from people asking her if that meant there was some special offer for gay people, and while most people who didn't get that Gay Cash was her actual name were either a bit embarrassed from the misunderstanding or got a chuckle out of the explanation ("My first name is Gay, my last name Cash"), the praise / bash ratio was about even: some folks would praise her for keeping her name and her choice of lifestyle (and no she was not a lesbian), some folks would bash her for things like taking advantage of the word "gay" to promote herself, and her choice of lifestyle Danno likes this.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

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