Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted

ScottF · 02-10-2014, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Try reading my post through a more neutral lens.

Unless you are of the mind that sexual orientation effects a persons job performance, it is irrelevant. Sexual orientation is less relevant than race, age, or gender, from a job performance view; and they are pretty damned irrelevant. His being gay is as relevant to the NFL as his coach being hetero..... If he is.... If he isn't, it's still irrelevant.

.

In most of society, yes. In the NFL, unfortunately, no.
From the hazing incidents, stories of players baling on teammates they don't like, to homophobic comments (not Vilma; that was ridiculous), we know that the NFL is still an old boys club, filled with bullies and other narrow-minded types. See Richie Incognito for a recent reference.
End of the day, it's a team game, and if your teammates don't support you, you can't be successful.

Sad, but I don't think this guy will survive an NFL locker room. I wish him well, because it is well past time

here is an interesting timeline- openly gay politicians, athletes and entertainers. A lot you will know (H.Milk, Sally Ride), and they date back to the 60's.

List of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender firsts by year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, how is it that in 50 years that no active professional athlete has come out? Because they know what the backlash would be.

ClintSaints · 02-11-2014, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

In most of society, yes. In the NFL, unfortunately, no.
From the hazing incidents, stories of players baling on teammates they don't like, to homophobic comments (not Vilma; that was ridiculous), we know that the NFL is still an old boys club, filled with bullies and other narrow-minded types. See Richie Incognito for a recent reference.
End of the day, it's a team game, and if your teammates don't support you, you can't be successful.

Sad, but I don't think this guy will survive an NFL locker room. I wish him well, because it is well past time

here is an interesting timeline- openly gay politicians, athletes and entertainers. A lot you will know (H.Milk, Sally Ride), and they date back to the 60's.

List of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender firsts by year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, how is it that in 50 years that no active professional athlete has come out? Because they know what the backlash would be.

50 years ago, there was no gay rights movement. Michael Sam came out to his entire team in Missouri last August. Warren Moon has stated publicly that there were two gay guys on his team that everyone in the locker room knew about and got along with fine. Don't underestimate the NFL locker rooms. The only thing that really matters in most locker rooms (but not all) is WINNING.

alleycat_126 · 02-10-2014, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Try reading my post through a more neutral lens.

Unless you are of the mind that sexual orientation effects a persons job performance, it is irrelevant. Sexual orientation is less relevant than race, age, or gender, from a job performance view; and they are pretty damned irrelevant. His being gay is as relevant to the NFL as his coach being hetero..... If he is.... If he isn't, it's still irrelevant.

That may apply to every other job in every other arena, but not in any NFL, or NBA locker rooms... There's hazing, as we found there's bullying...and you don't have to be anything but different in order to be a victim of it..... This is just as relevant as breaking through barriers for race, religion, or gender...... This transcends sports....... BTW, And I am not trying to argue with you, or lash out against you.... You have a point, and so do I.... that is all....

If you wanna say something, just say it.... Im neutral, it's irrelevant. your analogies are conundrums in there own right... LOL.... [/QUOTE]

burningmetal · 02-11-2014, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

irrelevant for who? certainly not irrelevant for the millions of people who feel they have to hide what they are for fear of being persecuted, or worse.....

Basically about as absurd as you saying everything but, there's no fear or hate towards anybody who wants to come out and be gay in today's society.... I hope I said that right, I took all the big words out..... Lol.....

Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore? I don't get any special treatment for being straight, but this guy sure will for being gay, and don't even tell me you don't know what I'm talking about.

The pressure is far more on people like me who disagree with that lifestyle. I don't have much in the way of freedom of speech when it comes this type of subject. But this guy decides to come out and tell the world something that no one was previously the least bit concerned with, and he is now being treated as a hero.

ScottF · 02-11-2014, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore?

um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere

Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle?

and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue?

TheOak · 02-11-2014, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere

Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle?

and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue?

Should the persecution continue?
You left out "gun nuts"... For some reason owning multiple guns makes you a nut but owning multiple cameras makes you a photographer.

Before you comment about guns that are used in crimes... Child Pornography is much more rampant locally and globally.

burningmetal · 02-11-2014, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere

Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle?

and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue?

All those groups and/or states that you just mentioned have taken personal stance, just as I do, and that is in no way persecuting them. They are not being denied service at chik-fil-a or any other place. And 36 states that oppose gay marriage are trying to protect something that used to be sacred and not intended for same sex relationships.

The whole reason for marriage comes from the Bible. So if you're a non believer and you want to, in essence, give the word of God the middle finger, then you have no reason to be married. Just live together, and do whatever it is you want to do.

Now as far as foreign countries, don't even bother going there. Christians, females (regardless of beliefs) gays, jews, all get murdered all the time. You're talking about brutal dictatorships. Let's not compare them to our country. You're embarrassing yourself with that one.

And as for your question, I don't consider myself persecuted. I used the word pressure. People like me can get fired from our jobs for saying something as simple as "I think homosexuality is wrong" out loud where someone who disagrees with me might complain. But if that same person were to call me a bigot for my beliefs, nothing would happen to that person. Because heaven forbid we upset a homosexual and have it blow up all over the news about how "intolerent" this person's boss is. It blows up just that quick, and you see it on tv just about every day now.

And why did I say "anymore"? I can't believe I have to explain this, but I'll humor you. Because whereas this country used to take a moral stand (and yes, there was also a greater number of radicals who hated gays rather than simply disagreeing with them) it now praises people for their "courage" and practically forces others to do the same. So there really isn't persecution "anymore". You may have a few isolated incidents, but for every issue involving a gay person there is one for every other person or culture nowadays.

halloween 65 · 02-11-2014, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore? I don't get any special treatment for being straight, but this guy sure will for being gay, and don't even tell me you don't know what I'm talking about.

The pressure is far more on people like me who disagree with that lifestyle. I don't have much in the way of freedom of speech when it comes this type of subject. But this guy decides to come out and tell the world something that no one was previously the least bit concerned with, and he is now being treated as a hero.

Very well said!! I could not agree more with this!!

saintfan · 02-10-2014, 04:20 PM

What. Ever.

Vrillon82 · 02-10-2014, 10:26 PM

some team will draft him for publicity.

$10 that its either Jets or Falcons.

02-10-2014, 08:34 PM	#1
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by TheOak Try reading my post through a more neutral lens. Unless you are of the mind that sexual orientation effects a persons job performance, it is irrelevant. Sexual orientation is less relevant than race, age, or gender, from a job performance view; and they are pretty damned irrelevant. His being gay is as relevant to the NFL as his coach being hetero..... If he is.... If he isn't, it's still irrelevant. . In most of society, yes. In the NFL, unfortunately, no. From the hazing incidents, stories of players baling on teammates they don't like, to homophobic comments (not Vilma; that was ridiculous), we know that the NFL is still an old boys club, filled with bullies and other narrow-minded types. See Richie Incognito for a recent reference. End of the day, it's a team game, and if your teammates don't support you, you can't be successful. Sad, but I don't think this guy will survive an NFL locker room. I wish him well, because it is well past time here is an interesting timeline- openly gay politicians, athletes and entertainers. A lot you will know (H.Milk, Sally Ride), and they date back to the 60's. List of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender firsts by year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So, how is it that in 50 years that no active professional athlete has come out? Because they know what the backlash would be.

02-11-2014, 12:11 AM	#2
ClintSaints 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 603	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF In most of society, yes. In the NFL, unfortunately, no. From the hazing incidents, stories of players baling on teammates they don't like, to homophobic comments (not Vilma; that was ridiculous), we know that the NFL is still an old boys club, filled with bullies and other narrow-minded types. See Richie Incognito for a recent reference. End of the day, it's a team game, and if your teammates don't support you, you can't be successful. Sad, but I don't think this guy will survive an NFL locker room. I wish him well, because it is well past time here is an interesting timeline- openly gay politicians, athletes and entertainers. A lot you will know (H.Milk, Sally Ride), and they date back to the 60's. List of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender firsts by year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So, how is it that in 50 years that no active professional athlete has come out? Because they know what the backlash would be. 50 years ago, there was no gay rights movement. Michael Sam came out to his entire team in Missouri last August. Warren Moon has stated publicly that there were two gay guys on his team that everyone in the locker room knew about and got along with fine. Don't underestimate the NFL locker rooms. The only thing that really matters in most locker rooms (but not all) is WINNING.

02-10-2014, 11:55 PM	#3
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by TheOak Try reading my post through a more neutral lens. Unless you are of the mind that sexual orientation effects a persons job performance, it is irrelevant. Sexual orientation is less relevant than race, age, or gender, from a job performance view; and they are pretty damned irrelevant. His being gay is as relevant to the NFL as his coach being hetero..... If he is.... If he isn't, it's still irrelevant. That may apply to every other job in every other arena, but not in any NFL, or NBA locker rooms... There's hazing, as we found there's bullying...and you don't have to be anything but different in order to be a victim of it..... This is just as relevant as breaking through barriers for race, religion, or gender...... This transcends sports....... BTW, And I am not trying to argue with you, or lash out against you.... You have a point, and so do I.... that is all.... If you wanna say something, just say it.... Im neutral, it's irrelevant. your analogies are conundrums in there own right... LOL.... [/QUOTE]
	You shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house, and if have a glass jaw you should watch your mouth..... cause I'll break your face!!! -50 cent

02-11-2014, 08:01 AM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by alleycat_126 irrelevant for who? certainly not irrelevant for the millions of people who feel they have to hide what they are for fear of being persecuted, or worse..... Basically about as absurd as you saying everything but, there's no fear or hate towards anybody who wants to come out and be gay in today's society.... I hope I said that right, I took all the big words out..... Lol..... Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore? I don't get any special treatment for being straight, but this guy sure will for being gay, and don't even tell me you don't know what I'm talking about. The pressure is far more on people like me who disagree with that lifestyle. I don't have much in the way of freedom of speech when it comes this type of subject. But this guy decides to come out and tell the world something that no one was previously the least bit concerned with, and he is now being treated as a hero. halloween 65 and Mr.Riaton like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-11-2014, 08:30 AM	#5
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by burningmetal Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore? um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle? and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue?

02-11-2014, 08:56 AM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle? and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue? Should the persecution continue? You left out "gun nuts"... For some reason owning multiple guns makes you a nut but owning multiple cameras makes you a photographer. Before you comment about guns that are used in crimes... Child Pornography is much more rampant locally and globally.

02-11-2014, 11:20 PM	#7
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by ScottF um, 36 states, the Federal government (DOMA), Chick-fil-a, Urban Oufitters, Putin, Ahmadinejad, the Boy Scouts, and high school jocks everywhere Do you seriously believe you are more persecuted for your beliefs than a gay person is for their lifestyle? and by 'anymore', do you mean that the persecution should continue? All those groups and/or states that you just mentioned have taken personal stance, just as I do, and that is in no way persecuting them. They are not being denied service at chik-fil-a or any other place. And 36 states that oppose gay marriage are trying to protect something that used to be sacred and not intended for same sex relationships. The whole reason for marriage comes from the Bible. So if you're a non believer and you want to, in essence, give the word of God the middle finger, then you have no reason to be married. Just live together, and do whatever it is you want to do. Now as far as foreign countries, don't even bother going there. Christians, females (regardless of beliefs) gays, jews, all get murdered all the time. You're talking about brutal dictatorships. Let's not compare them to our country. You're embarrassing yourself with that one. And as for your question, I don't consider myself persecuted. I used the word pressure. People like me can get fired from our jobs for saying something as simple as "I think homosexuality is wrong" out loud where someone who disagrees with me might complain. But if that same person were to call me a bigot for my beliefs, nothing would happen to that person. Because heaven forbid we upset a homosexual and have it blow up all over the news about how "intolerent" this person's boss is. It blows up just that quick, and you see it on tv just about every day now. And why did I say "anymore"? I can't believe I have to explain this, but I'll humor you. Because whereas this country used to take a moral stand (and yes, there was also a greater number of radicals who hated gays rather than simply disagreeing with them) it now praises people for their "courage" and practically forces others to do the same. So there really isn't persecution "anymore". You may have a few isolated incidents, but for every issue involving a gay person there is one for every other person or culture nowadays. SapperSaint likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-11-2014, 08:35 AM	#8
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted Originally Posted by burningmetal Just exactly who is persecuting them anymore? I don't get any special treatment for being straight, but this guy sure will for being gay, and don't even tell me you don't know what I'm talking about. The pressure is far more on people like me who disagree with that lifestyle. I don't have much in the way of freedom of speech when it comes this type of subject. But this guy decides to come out and tell the world something that no one was previously the least bit concerned with, and he is now being treated as a hero. Very well said!! I could not agree more with this!!

02-10-2014, 04:20 PM	#9
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted What. Ever. foreverfan likes this.

02-10-2014, 10:26 PM	#10
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127	Re: Michael Sam comes out, An openly gay player very likely to be drafted some team will draft him for publicity. $10 that its either Jets or Falcons.
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127

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