Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick

K Major · 04-30-2021, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

This is why I have always thought this pick prognostication business is meaningless. None of them have the access or the resources to fully know what they are doing and it simply results in the general public buying into their nonsense.

Hey now, I'm still one of the best NFL/CBS/ESPN NETWORK internet couch coaching GM's around

Boston Saint · 04-30-2021, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

What gives you the idea that he would still be there at 60 or that he wasn't valued at 28? Something you read from others that really don't know either? These people that come up with these ranking do not have a whole staff that spends hundreds of hours researching these players. Nor do they have the opportunity to interview these players multiple times. According to Turner himself his agent told him to expect to be picked between 20 and 40 and that's just right where he went.

This is why I have always thought this pick prognostication business is meaningless. None of them have the access or the resources to fully know what they are doing and it simply results in the general public buying into their nonsense.

The only way to know a player's true draft value is to wait until he is drafted.

I said the likelihood of him being there. The reason I bring that up is, as it’s been pointed out, the highest any draft speculation had him going was 60 according to Chris. Obviously it’s an Inexact science, but so is horse racing and I would take a person’s advice that is knowledgeable at the track vs a novice.

They could have taken the risk of drafting another player(one of more need since, as best, he will be part of a rotation at DE and the team is in need of a good LB say) at 28 and trading up in the second for Payton. By most accounts, they overpaid.

AsylumGuido · 04-30-2021, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I said the likelihood of him being there. The reason I bring that up is, as it’s been pointed out, the highest any draft speculation had him going was 60 according to Chris. Obviously it’s an Inexact science, but so is horse racing and I would take a person’s advice that is knowledgeable at the track vs a novice.

They could have taken the risk of drafting another player(one of more need since, as best, he will be part of a rotation at DE and the team is in need of a good LB say) at 28 and trading up in the second for Payton. By most accounts, they overpaid.

The person who's advice you are taking is a novice as compared to those that actually do the real drafting. That's the point. You are placing your trust in someone who is underqualified based upon lack of resources and access.

And as for those "most accounts", those are the same people.

You are proposing that the Saints draft for need over drafting who they have determined is the best player available. I certainly hope they never do that.

Boston Saint · 04-30-2021, 10:17 AM

No I’m not. You’re wrong

SmashMouth · 04-30-2021, 09:58 AM

We all want to steal talent in the draft, like we did with Kamara. While this guy was speedily trending up in the DE rankings pre-draft, there is chance we did this with this kid. He was a DT converted to a DE. His numbers for such a short stint at DE are eyeopening. He has a wingspan of a 747 (what NFL hall of famer had such a similar wingspan?) . And most importantly, his IQ is off the charts.

SmashMouth · 04-30-2021, 10:08 AM

PFF Grade

R1 (28) NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: EDGE PAYTON TURNER, HOUSTON

Pick Grade: Below Average

Turner might be the biggest surprise first-round pick thus far. He broke out on a small sample in 2020 against subpar competition with a 90.0 pass-rush grade across four starts but has a coveted physical profile. He’s 6-foot-6 and 270 pounds with 35-inch arms and plays a physical game. Turner is also a versatile piece with impressive bend for his size. It’s a risky bet that could pay off big for the Saints, but there were other directions they should have gone here.

Boston Saint · 04-30-2021, 10:16 AM

Bottom line is it smells to me of Baptiste, Davenport and other “reaches” the team has taken on draft prospects that were surprise moves according to draft analysts. I felt good about Lattimore pick at the time. I don’t feel good about this one. Maybe I’m wrong and they hit on a Kamara.

AsylumGuido · 04-30-2021, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Bottom line is it smells to me of Baptiste, Davenport and other “reaches” the team has taken on draft prospects that were surprise moves according to draft analysts. I felt good about Lattimore pick at the time. I don’t feel good about this one. Maybe I’m wrong and they hit on a Kamara.

You are looking at a description of a rose to ascertain your smell. Those that make the picks have actually held that rose in their hands and experienced the fragrance themselves.

Boston Saint · 04-30-2021, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You are looking at a description of a rose to ascertain your smell. Those that make the picks have actually held that rose in their hands and experienced the fragrance themselves.

The smell of roses is not what I detect from your posts Guido. It’s the manure they grow in.

The Dude · 04-30-2021, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The smell of roses is not what I detect from your posts Guido. It’s the manure they grow in.

Guido doesn’t like it when people form opinions. He likes to blindly follow the facts. At least the ones he can cherry pick to make the Saints seem perfect in his mind.

04-30-2021, 09:55 AM	#1
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,831 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick Originally Posted by AsylumGuido This is why I have always thought this pick prognostication business is meaningless. None of them have the access or the resources to fully know what they are doing and it simply results in the general public buying into their nonsense. Hey now, I'm still one of the best NFL/CBS/ESPN NETWORK internet couch coaching GM's around AsylumGuido, SmashMouth and st thomas like this.

04-30-2021, 10:10 AM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick Originally Posted by AsylumGuido What gives you the idea that he would still be there at 60 or that he wasn't valued at 28? Something you read from others that really don't know either? These people that come up with these ranking do not have a whole staff that spends hundreds of hours researching these players. Nor do they have the opportunity to interview these players multiple times. According to Turner himself his agent told him to expect to be picked between 20 and 40 and that's just right where he went. This is why I have always thought this pick prognostication business is meaningless. None of them have the access or the resources to fully know what they are doing and it simply results in the general public buying into their nonsense. The only way to know a player's true draft value is to wait until he is drafted. I said the likelihood of him being there. The reason I bring that up is, as it’s been pointed out, the highest any draft speculation had him going was 60 according to Chris. Obviously it’s an Inexact science, but so is horse racing and I would take a person’s advice that is knowledgeable at the track vs a novice. They could have taken the risk of drafting another player(one of more need since, as best, he will be part of a rotation at DE and the team is in need of a good LB say) at 28 and trading up in the second for Payton. By most accounts, they overpaid.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

04-30-2021, 10:16 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick Originally Posted by Boston Saint I said the likelihood of him being there. The reason I bring that up is, as it’s been pointed out, the highest any draft speculation had him going was 60 according to Chris. Obviously it’s an Inexact science, but so is horse racing and I would take a person’s advice that is knowledgeable at the track vs a novice. They could have taken the risk of drafting another player(one of more need since, as best, he will be part of a rotation at DE and the team is in need of a good LB say) at 28 and trading up in the second for Payton. By most accounts, they overpaid. The person who's advice you are taking is a novice as compared to those that actually do the real drafting. That's the point. You are placing your trust in someone who is underqualified based upon lack of resources and access. And as for those "most accounts", those are the same people. You are proposing that the Saints draft for need over drafting who they have determined is the best player available. I certainly hope they never do that.

04-30-2021, 10:17 AM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick No I’m not. You’re wrong

04-30-2021, 09:58 AM	#5
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,801 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick We all want to steal talent in the draft, like we did with Kamara. While this guy was speedily trending up in the DE rankings pre-draft, there is chance we did this with this kid. He was a DT converted to a DE. His numbers for such a short stint at DE are eyeopening. He has a wingspan of a 747 (what NFL hall of famer had such a similar wingspan?) . And most importantly, his IQ is off the charts. AsylumGuido and K Major like this.

04-30-2021, 10:08 AM	#6
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,801 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick PFF Grade R1 (28) NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: EDGE PAYTON TURNER, HOUSTON Pick Grade: Below Average Turner might be the biggest surprise first-round pick thus far. He broke out on a small sample in 2020 against subpar competition with a 90.0 pass-rush grade across four starts but has a coveted physical profile. He’s 6-foot-6 and 270 pounds with 35-inch arms and plays a physical game. Turner is also a versatile piece with impressive bend for his size. It’s a risky bet that could pay off big for the Saints, but there were other directions they should have gone here. ChrisXVI likes this.

04-30-2021, 10:18 AM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick Originally Posted by Boston Saint Bottom line is it smells to me of Baptiste, Davenport and other “reaches” the team has taken on draft prospects that were surprise moves according to draft analysts. I felt good about Lattimore pick at the time. I don’t feel good about this one. Maybe I’m wrong and they hit on a Kamara. You are looking at a description of a rose to ascertain your smell. Those that make the picks have actually held that rose in their hands and experienced the fragrance themselves.

04-30-2021, 10:20 AM	#9
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You are looking at a description of a rose to ascertain your smell. Those that make the picks have actually held that rose in their hands and experienced the fragrance themselves. The smell of roses is not what I detect from your posts Guido. It’s the manure they grow in.

04-30-2021, 12:02 PM	#10
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060	Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick Originally Posted by Boston Saint The smell of roses is not what I detect from your posts Guido. It’s the manure they grow in. Guido doesn’t like it when people form opinions. He likes to blindly follow the facts. At least the ones he can cherry pick to make the Saints seem perfect in his mind.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060