AsylumGuido

Why, thank you, my friend.

Boston Saint

“ Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”....Steve Franklin. No wait...that was BEN Franklin.

Consider your Chops Busted!!!!

AsylumGuido

You are aware of the context of that quote, right? It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Ben Franklin's Famous 'Liberty, Safety' Quote Lost Its Context In 21st Century

SIEGEL: What's the exact quotation?

WITTES: The exact quotation, which is from a letter that Franklin is believed to have written on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly, reads, those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

SIEGEL: And what was the context of this remark?

WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

SIEGEL: So far from being a pro-privacy quotation, if anything, it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.

WITTES: It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means.

SIEGEL: Well, as you've said, it's used often in the context of surveillance and technology. And it came up in my conversation with Mr. Anderson 'cause he's part of what's called the Ben Franklin Privacy Caucus in the Virginia legislature. What do you make of the use of this quotation as a motto for something that really wasn't the sentiment Franklin had in mind?

WITTES: You know, there are all of these quotations. Think of kill all the lawyers - right? - from Shakespeare. Nobody really remembers what the characters in question were saying at that time. And maybe it doesn't matter so much what Franklin was actually trying to say because the quotation means so much to us in terms of the tension between government power and individual liberties. But I do think it is worth remembering what he was actually trying to say because the actual context is much more sensitive to the problems of real governance than the flip quotation's use is, often. And Franklin was dealing with a genuine security emergency. There were raids on these frontier towns. And he regarded the ability of a community to defend itself as the essential liberty that it would be contemptible to trade. So I don't really have a problem with people misusing the quotation, but I also think it's worth remembering what it was really about.

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

Boston Saint

Ahhh, the wiggle. That’s why I disagree with having you banned. It’s easier to see and disprove some of the BS things you say face to face. IF (which is not so) you were as righteous as you believe you are, then you would at least wonder why some people find you so....unpleasant. You would try to overcome that shortcoming you have. If for no other reason than to try to bridge that gap. Someone trying to engage in dialogue would do that. But, as usual, you aren’t, and the problem is never yours in your mind. Thanks for busting your own chops.

You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

spkb25

Hes a fool that spouts BS. If he can find a way to take the alternative side. He will. There's going to be a lot of losing for those Saints this year. Team has huge holes absent any talent. Youre going to see this board absent the cry baby....which he won't blame on himself but on others apparent negativity because they point out the truth

SaintFanInATLHELL

Report from Ochsner Medical System:

Average age of covid death for vaccinated patients: 75
Average age of covid death for unvaccinated patients: 48

Covid really doesn't care if you are healthy or not paranoid. The entire point now is that it's killing younger, healthy, unvaccinated people.

SFIAH

AsylumGuido

Unpleasant perhaps to those that do not agree with my takes. That's not my problem. But, by the way, is this not dialog?

Boston Saint

If people want to vaccinate, fine. If people do not want to vaccinate, fine. If people want to mask fine. If not mask, fine. The idea of telling others what they should do because it is good for other people is not supported by logic
nor science and against the idea of individual freedom. I will no doubt now hear a version of “you don’t have a study” as a rebuff.

AsylumGuido

Your mind is made up and cannot be changed. Right or wrong.

By the way, what does "individual freedom" mean?

SaintFanInATLHELL

SFIAH