Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Browns really overpaid/overbid. The more confusing aspect is why not trade Baker to the Texans so they don't lose as much draft capital. The Rams at least had the sense to trade Goff in the Stafford deal. Almost for sure the Browns will have to cut Baker and take whatever that cap hit looks like because they have zero trade leverage after all this.

Pretty big win for the Texans really.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Baker ain't showin up for camp, that's for sure. Treating players that way is a great way to continue to suck.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

This is so sweet! The best possible scenario. Watson goes to the AFC. The Failclowns got their hopes up and were dashed again. We cleared all this cap and retained all of our draft picks and are now in a position to stock up in free agency and the draft. And, finally, we can bring back Winston. Now I just hope our game against the Browns this season is during Watson's suspension. THAT would be the icing on the cake.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Guarantee this dude is gonna take the money and run. Browns have shown that they let the players call the shots and basically anyone can just up and leave if they don’t like it there. He’s gonna pay off those lawsuits and split. Bet he’s not even in the league 2-3 years from now. I’m so glad we didn’t overpay for this guy.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Idk man this seemed like sort of a chess match within the division anyway. Who knows what was going on behind closed doors. I kind of thought this might be a play to get one of our division rivals to break the bank.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Desean is a Brown now and the Saints still need a QB.

I'm not so sure Dennis Allen is all that fond of Winston as his starter in 2022 either. Maybe Dougie M puts in a good word on his former QB from Jacksonville - Gardner Minshew. He's fun as hell to watch that's for sure.

Not much left out there in Free Agency land for QB's.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Yeah. I don’t think Allen believes in Jameis.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

I could not disagree more.

I wouldn't exchange Loomis, Harley and Ireland for any other team's "braintrust."

They want to win and they made an aggressive and strategic move in going after Watson. They are not the "morality police," and their job is to put together the most competitive roster of athletes/players they can - not literal saints.

Make no mistake about it - the Saints would have been far more competitive with Watson as their QB than any of the other option available to them. Also, they had to do all that they could to prevent him from being signed by a division rival or at the very least drive up the price of signing him.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

I could not disagree more with your disagreeing more.

I would exchange Loomis, Harley, and Ireland for the Patriots braintrust in a heartbeat, they won 6 super bowls without blowing up the cap as much as we did winning 1. Yeah, they had Brady, but we had Brees too. We are set up to fail for years with Peat, Hill, and Thomas repeatedly restructured owing them all kinds of future money.

Loomis and his team may want to win but hey my daughter wants a pony. She can't afford one. We can't afford a receiver who is good and has played the last two years. Thats because Loomis' cap wizardry is a spell where we magically get under the cap by putting ourselves in the same mess the next offseason and losing a star every season like Hendrickson, Sanders, Williams, and maybe Armstead. Its a magic trick where he makes stars disappear and wows the crowd that SOME stars are still in place. Other teams are improving in the offseason, teams with better records than us, and we are not. Our only hope was trying to lure a big QB with the prospect of playing alongside maybe zero good receivers, no good TE, and a declining oline, while ignoring his past history of tearing both ACLS and maybe raping 22 massage therapists. Thats just desperation.
We have the cap to cut Peat as a pre-June 1 cut. Make that happen Loomis. Start saving for a rainy day not making desperation moves.

Loomis trades away all our draft picks because he does not have the cajones to try to draft more good young players and move on from mistakes.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

:D

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

What team isn’t losing stars from season to season? When the Bucs brought back all their players last year that was unprecedented. Brady was taking really team friendly deals for the Pats as they traded away and released stars because they didn’t want to pay them. Our QB ate up the cap and still has dead money on our books as I type this reply. This team has been BALLING year in and year out for a long time now. I’m not getting all the angst for the front office.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Can you come in and contribute on a cheap veteran deal?

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

It’s over for me bro. My back is dying by the day. If not for that my knees and ankles are still really healthy. But bad squat form has me all ****ed up.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Garner Minshew shades of..........

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

It very well could be the other way around. Sean was the driving force behind Winston as well as the QB developer and he’s gone which leaves Winston with Allen. Add to that the absolute sh1t show the Saints just put on chasing Waston which as a fan has me questioning whether we are the worse franchise for being stupid enough to go all in and not win.

We made Winston an offer, usually when a team lowballs a player the agent lets that get out if the player wants to go to the team. Then there is this from Winston after asked about the Saints offer, “I still view myself as a starter in this league and that's what I'm looking for." telling me he wasn’t offered starter money or money close enough to even negotiate. Or he just has no interest.

That front office pissed a lot of people off both on the field and in the stands this week.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Loomis has been the GM for 20 years now - naturally he has made bad decisions during that time.

Byrd, Jason David, Browner and Spiller we all bad FA signings without a doubt.

As for 1st round picks - Sullivan was a big miss, but they picked Stinchcomb with the next pick in that draft. Meachem in the 1st round in 2007 was a miss as was that whole draft with the exception of Bushrod in the 4th. Ellis in 2008 ended up as a disappointment, but they did get Porter and Nicks in that draft. Vaccaro in 2013 wasn't a total failure and they got Armstead in the 3rd that year. 2015 with Peat and Anthony was a failure, especially if you look at the picks as a whole that year with P.J. Williams as the only bright spot. 2020 with Ruiz is a miss at the moment, but this coming season could still turn that around, and the same goes for Baun and Trautman.

Overall, in my opinion, they've had more successes with the high-priced FAs and high picks in the draft than on average in the league.

Also, how much of the FA decisions - especially the big splashes/misses - were driven by SP while Loomis and co were only left with finding a way to make it work fiscally?

I think most of the league is moving towards the way Saints are manipulating the cap numbers, and within a decade that might (will) become the norm of how to construct salary structures around the league.

And finally, if you are going to criticize the contracts Loomis has given - you also have to give him credit for the bad contracts he has chosen not to give with the latest example being Watson.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Melvin Gordon I'd pass rather draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd to pair with Kamara

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

If we're willing and able to pursue a franchise QB, why not go after Lamar Jackson?

He's in his 5th year, due $23MM without a long term deal. Meanwhile Baltimore is spending like a drunken sailor. Are they building around LJ or Huntley?

I've been a proponent of Jameis since offseason started. I was wooed by the opportunity to potentially cement the position for the next decade. I'm happy we didn't sacrifice the world for him but it makes me wonder if the front office is done trying...

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

This past week... the Watson fiasco and what we were preparing to give along with the damage that was done to the integrity to the locker room... You still believe Sean Payton was the driving force in that statement.

The underlined portion is much of the exact same but Sean Payton isnt here.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Our own players were actively recruiting Watson, even restructuring contracts to get under the cap. I don’t thing the locker room is damaged the way you think it is.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

You think players restructure contracts to help the team? They smartly agree to restructure because in a career field that can end in a spit second on the field the restructures give them guaranteed money, it converts salary into instant signing bonus in their pocket. The cap is Loomis's problem, they players don't give a sh1t, they are in there fighting for as much money as they can get in spite of the cap.

You need to have a chat with CGJ about how it feels to be put on an auction block unwillingly. You need to have a chat with his defensive secondary that depends on him.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

What were the specifics of the Saints' offer to both the Texans and Watson? I have only seen speculations and rumors regarding the offers, so I'd be interested in knowing the facts.

I read at least one article during this past week that claimed Allen wanted Watson in a big way, and then in a few articles that Loomis was aggressive and all in on trying to land the deal. Which came first - the chicken or the egg?

Lastly, I just don't agree with you on the notion of "Watson fiasco." If you are approaching this from the morality standpoint, then you have to turn around and give Loomis and the FO credit for bringing in guys like Demario Davis and Benjamin Watson or severing ties with a player like Junior Gallette.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

No one that I know of knows the specifics or I haven’t seen them available to the public. That said, there are reasonable assumptions that can be made due to the cap vs what we have to work with.

Look, I get the recent only the ‘only the facts matter’ movement but a fact of many matters is that perception can sometimes do more damage than reality and if no one had a discussion with those players before their names were listed that’s piss-poor management. I suspect agents were notified of the possibilities and they in turn told their players which is why there was a general tone change on social media for some.

And maybe no one said sh1t to anyone because no one’s name was up for trade but that in it self… well you see how much anxiety it created in these forums? Now be a player left in the wind.

If I’m a player and I’m traded as part of a last minute deal, I get it, that’s the game. If I’m part of a trade package for 3-4 days and no one tells me, I won’t tweet I’ll be in the correct persons office and we will discuss future expectations.

On your last paragraph you’ve completely misunderstood me. My comments have zero to do with my feelings on the morality of the decisions and everything to do with a players feelings after he puts in work year over year to build something and he is sent elsewhere due to someone else. This also isn’t about players that do not pull their weight lol, no one is wanting Junior Gallette in a trade.

Seriously these players get pissed if someone starts a game before them and you don’t see sending them to another team as a bone of contention?

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did.

I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams.

Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan.

You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

I’m hoping we can get Alabama’s RB in the second round.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Very true. Saints “fans” were heavily trolling CJ about being traded and telling him he’s not worth more than Watson. They basically told him he was dispensable. We’re having conversations about the front office but with social media the players hear the people loud and clear. Like I said before, y’all don’t think Marcus Williams heard all the hate? Michael Thomas definitely hears it. So when these players say **** it and dip nobody can really be mad. Fans don’t often have loyalty to players.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Exactly, and in my opinion, the Saints have shown by their past actions that they are loyal to their foundational players. On the other hand, they don't hesitate to ship out those who they feel are disruptive (right or wrong) as was the case with Cooks, Stills and Hicks.

It's a business, and players are commodities for the franchises, which is why fans should never be upset when players don't take a "hometown discount" to play for less than what they could get on the open market.

Most, if not all, of us are first and foremost fans of the team, and fandom of individual players can change greatly with their performance on the field, actions off the field and where they play. Same goes for the coaches and the front office. It's a shame some feel the need to seek out these individuals and vent their frustrations directly at them.

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

This right here!

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Your first paragraph. Not sure if there is a language barrier but I’ve never criticized the deal and haven’t mentioned what in the deal
Either good or bad because it’s unknown. I have no clue what you are going on about, I’ve not criticized it or tried to criticize the unknown.

About it being business and professionalism. When dealing with everything but players it’s 100% all about the terms and conditions on the paper (again if you missed it, I critiqued nothing here).

I agree that there are probably General Managers and coaches that look at players as horses at an auction and treat them as such. Keep them in the dark and then just give them a one liner and send them on their way.. Money Ball like. There are also true leaders in those positions that don’t just expect the horse to be professional, they lead lead by example. Professionalism means professional courtesy and treating your players/employees with humanity and respect. Those managers pick up the phone and take the 2 minutes to say “Ceedy, hard changes are coming. We value you and we do not intend on trading you. Things do not always go as planned but you now know as much as I know and we want to keep you as a Saint. You are hearing from me because I make the decisions and because when the Watson trade rumors hit the street, I want you to have the answers form me before you have questions to anyone else.” That two minutes gives him the knowledge to ignore social media, and deal with his family. Wait… did you forget that the business of trading in human equity more likely than not also involves uprooting a family? If you want to know how the family feels about it then go find Sproles’s wife’s tweets immediately after he was traded. If you are married then you understand that when your wife has a problem you share it.

I get your idealist outlook, perfect world, people behaving as they should, professionalism.. If all players behaved with professionalism, Deshaun Watson would not have been up for trade. If owners and GMs behaved professionally Watson wouldn’t have gone public about being lied to.

Usually it’s the Americans Horta trading under the name of business and the rest of the world trying g to remind them that humans and family’s are involved.:bng:

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

5th rounder for Minshew?

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

I’d rather stick with TS, Hill, or the draft

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

Not a Minshew man eh V?

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

No I actually really like him. I just think ones that have been in the system have the advantage and come cheap. None but maybe a draft pick are a long term solution

Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints?
 

I'd definitely pay a 5th for the mustache. He just has that moxie you want in a QB.