Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

hitta · 10-04-2022, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Murray > Ingram.

4 turnovers in 4 games.

The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him.

Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand.

No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad.

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

K Major · 10-04-2022, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years.

BakoSaint · 10-04-2022, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

This presumes Dennis Allen is the average replacement head coach. But Dennis Allen came to the Saints with an 8-28 career head coaching record which is well below .500 or average. I think that when Payton went 7-9 for 3 years it was fair to question whether he had lost his edge. That he improved was a pleasant surprise. But I don’t think its fair to make this a cautionary tale about asking for change. Nobody was asking to replace Payton with 8-28 Dennis Allen any more than anyone now who wants a new QB is saying lets sign Jacoby Brissett and make him our franchise QB this offseason.

Personally my opinion is that Sean is a great coach and a horrible GM and that he became our defacto GM with an accountant yes man at his side. We won’t know unless he goes elsewhere but honestly I think he will instantly improve a team with coaching but then gradually erode them if given GM powers. He can find diamonds in the rough in mid rounds yet if they are not available he is impatient and takes players who would not be drafted, falls in love with bad talent, cant evaluate any QB except Brees, and wastes time on projects. When a formula works to find great olinemen in mid rounds he stops the formula, trades away the mid round picks, and takes overrated linemen in early rounds or useless linemen in late rounds. He also gets in fueds and dumps useful players inexplicably then stubbornly insists there is no need at the position because that justifies getting rid of the player and not relacing them without admitting the conflict hurt. With a good gm in absolute control sean would be a good coach. Just like his coordinators are not head coach material though, he is not gm material.

iceshack149 · 10-04-2022, 05:11 PM

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

"The refs appeared to have botched the call on the Saints' opening drive vs MIN. Cesar Ruiz was ruled an ineligible man downfield on a screen to Mark Ingram, but Ingram caught the ball behind the line of scrimmage, making Ruiz legal. Same scenario on MIN's 1st TD & refs let it go," Duncan wrote on Twitter.
The penalty discrepancy was noticeably large at the end of this Week 4 contest. The Saints collected 10 penalty flags for 102 yards. The Vikings amassed just five for 35 yards.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090

AsylumGuido · 10-04-2022, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090

Officiating incompetence. Part time officials in a multibillion dollar league. All flags need to be reviewable. The technology is there.

papz · 10-05-2022, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by hitta

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still **** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Rugby Saint II · 10-05-2022, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still **** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Personally, I feel like it was time to let Sean Payton get his much need break from the grind of football. He coached his very best season last year and the burn out was too much to overcome with the short break between seasons. I can't fault Sean Payton for leaving us when he did. He does have a family after all, and I want him to be happy. He's earned it by being a good man in my book.

When Payton came to the Saints he had a three year plan to win the Super bowl and it worked beautifully. Not all plans work. Sometimes we need a fresh flux of insight like new coaches after three 7-9 seasons to help build a new plan. He has that same opportunity again with a new team and I'm excited for him to come back and ***** slap Roger Godhell with another Super bowl victory.

I can't blame Payton solely for the shape that we're in. Loomis has to know when to pull back the reins on the thoroughbred for control over their direction they are headed, then just let him go. Loomis had had to step in before to shut Payton's vision down over the years when necessary and he should have had better control over our current situation.

Loomis made the bold moves in the draft, free agency, and cap spending that put us in this shape to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I like what he's done for us, but he's really not much more than a damn fine bean counter who needs another strong voice in his ear to properly manage this team.

10-04-2022, 03:24 PM	#1
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by K Major Murray > Ingram. 4 turnovers in 4 games. The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him. Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand. No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad. This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time. jnormand likes this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,340

10-04-2022, 03:38 PM	#2
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,838 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by hitta This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years.

10-04-2022, 04:10 PM	#3
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by hitta This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time. This presumes Dennis Allen is the average replacement head coach. But Dennis Allen came to the Saints with an 8-28 career head coaching record which is well below .500 or average. I think that when Payton went 7-9 for 3 years it was fair to question whether he had lost his edge. That he improved was a pleasant surprise. But I don’t think its fair to make this a cautionary tale about asking for change. Nobody was asking to replace Payton with 8-28 Dennis Allen any more than anyone now who wants a new QB is saying lets sign Jacoby Brissett and make him our franchise QB this offseason. Personally my opinion is that Sean is a great coach and a horrible GM and that he became our defacto GM with an accountant yes man at his side. We won’t know unless he goes elsewhere but honestly I think he will instantly improve a team with coaching but then gradually erode them if given GM powers. He can find diamonds in the rough in mid rounds yet if they are not available he is impatient and takes players who would not be drafted, falls in love with bad talent, cant evaluate any QB except Brees, and wastes time on projects. When a formula works to find great olinemen in mid rounds he stops the formula, trades away the mid round picks, and takes overrated linemen in early rounds or useless linemen in late rounds. He also gets in fueds and dumps useful players inexplicably then stubbornly insists there is no need at the position because that justifies getting rid of the player and not relacing them without admitting the conflict hurt. With a good gm in absolute control sean would be a good coach. Just like his coordinators are not head coach material though, he is not gm material.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400

10-04-2022, 05:11 PM	#4
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,426 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday "The refs appeared to have botched the call on the Saints' opening drive vs MIN. Cesar Ruiz was ruled an ineligible man downfield on a screen to Mark Ingram, but Ingram caught the ball behind the line of scrimmage, making Ruiz legal. Same scenario on MIN's 1st TD & refs let it go," Duncan wrote on Twitter. The penalty discrepancy was noticeably large at the end of this Week 4 contest. The Saints collected 10 penalty flags for 102 yards. The Vikings amassed just five for 35 yards. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090 Rugby Saint II and Pete like this.

10-04-2022, 05:52 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,674	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by iceshack149 Look: NFL Refs Appeared To Botch Important Call On Sunday https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ae73a60ad45090 Officiating incompetence. Part time officials in a multibillion dollar league. All flags need to be reviewable. The technology is there.

10-05-2022, 08:22 AM	#6
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by hitta This is life without Sean. People were ***ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time. Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still ** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other. saintsfan1976 likes this.

10-05-2022, 09:39 AM	#7
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,167	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by papz Sean Payton left us in the position we are in right now. An aging roster, a bum quarterback, and bad contracts. At one point in time, yes he probably was but that ship has sailed. I will always appreciate what he did for us but I will still ** on him for leaving us they way he did. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Personally, I feel like it was time to let Sean Payton get his much need break from the grind of football. He coached his very best season last year and the burn out was too much to overcome with the short break between seasons. I can't fault Sean Payton for leaving us when he did. He does have a family after all, and I want him to be happy. He's earned it by being a good man in my book. When Payton came to the Saints he had a three year plan to win the Super bowl and it worked beautifully. Not all plans work. Sometimes we need a fresh flux of insight like new coaches after three 7-9 seasons to help build a new plan. He has that same opportunity again with a new team and I'm excited for him to come back and *** slap Roger Godhell with another Super bowl victory. I can't blame Payton solely for the shape that we're in. Loomis has to know when to pull back the reins on the thoroughbred for control over their direction they are headed, then just let him go. Loomis had had to step in before to shut Payton's vision down over the years when necessary and he should have had better control over our current situation. Loomis made the bold moves in the draft, free agency, and cap spending that put us in this shape to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I like what he's done for us, but he's really not much more than a damn fine bean counter who needs another strong voice in his ear to properly manage this team.
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