If we could just have our Starting core...

AsylumGuido · 10-19-2022, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

All of what happens, or is written about what happens, or speculations about the quality of the field at any given stadium is separate from the basic question. Is it the players Decision or the teams? The truth is some of each of course.

If player X is questionable for team A, then the Decision on if X plays (assuming X is outside of the earlier mentioned QB/concussion subgroup) depends on many variables: player’s health, team record, depth at position, etc. I’d hope we agree on this, right? For example the need for a guy at say 65% to return for a 5-1 team that is getting by at WR is different than a 2-4 team that is playing undrafted guys. Agreed?

So, in the Saints case, knowing they have receivers out, and knowing Thomas is paid to be a top WR, and knowing the team needs to win and the playoff window is closing, I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”.

As you point out the circumstances come into play.

If the medical staff says the player doesn't play then it matters not what the coaches or the player wish. Everyone should agree that's a given.

If the medical staff gives a full go then it falls on the player and the coaches. In this case I can't imagine any player saying they don't want to play. I can see a coach wanting additional practice .. possibly.

If the medical staff gives a conditional go, as in the player can play but there is the chance of reaggravating the injury I can see the coaches considering the circumstances. Let's say it was a critical game such as clinching a playoff berth or an actual playoff game I can see the coaches asking the player to play. I seriously doubt any player would say no. If the game was not critical I can see the coaches making the decision to hold out the player regardless of what the player wishes.

Then there's the case of the medical staff giving a conditional go, as in the player can play without chance of further aggravation but there will be pain to play through and/or painkilling required. This is the only case I can possibly see the player making the final call. Once again, however, it is very hard for me to believe any player that is motivated enough to want to be great their whole life would refuse to play under these circumstances.

I have had the opportunity to know several athletes in several different sports over the years and I can honestly say that I do not believe any of them would refuse to compete if it was at all possible. It is so contrary to their basic mindset.

In addition, what the player is getting paid should not be part of any of the decisions, nor do I believe it comes into play beyond the minds of fans.

AsylumGuido · 10-19-2022, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

All of what happens, or is written about what happens, or speculations about the quality of the field at any given stadium is separate from the basic question. Is it the players Decision or the teams? The truth is some of each of course.

If player X is questionable for team A, then the Decision on if X plays (assuming X is outside of the earlier mentioned QB/concussion subgroup) depends on many variables: player’s health, team record, depth at position, etc. I’d hope we agree on this, right? For example the need for a guy at say 65% to return for a 5-1 team that is getting by at WR is different than a 2-4 team that is playing undrafted guys. Agreed?

So, in the Saints case, knowing they have receivers out, and knowing Thomas is paid to be a top WR, and knowing the team needs to win and the playoff window is closing, I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”.

Just out of curiosity I put this question out to a few of the Saints beat writers, Boston.

"I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case?"

Here's the first response:

Ross Jackson
@RossJacksonNOLA
Replying to
@AsylumGuido
That's not the case.
2:14 PM · Oct 19, 2022
·Twitter Web App

Second response:

@AsylumGuido
·
20m
Replying to
@RosvoglouReport

I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case? I myself can't see this being the case.

Chris Rosvoglou
@RosvoglouReport
Replying to
@AsylumGuido
I highly doubt that
2:27 PM · Oct 19, 2022
·Twitter Web App

Boston Saint · 10-20-2022, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Just out of curiosity I put this question out to a few of the Saints beat writers, Boston.

"I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case?"

Here's the first response:

Ross Jackson
@RossJacksonNOLA
Replying to
@AsylumGuido
That's not the case.
2:14 PM · Oct 19, 2022
·Twitter Web App

Second response:

@AsylumGuido
·
20m
Replying to
@RosvoglouReport

I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case? I myself can't see this being the case.

Chris Rosvoglou
@RosvoglouReport
Replying to
@AsylumGuido
I highly doubt that
2:27 PM · Oct 19, 2022
·Twitter Web App

Great. That means you are BOTH wrong.

Rell&Gold · 10-18-2022, 02:42 PM

This previous off-season is going to be the one that hurts the Saints the most. We had waaay more holes to fill other than WR which we put the house up for. DT RB2 Safety Nickel CB2 T G. We left so much bone on the table with this draft. Eagles received Nakobe Dean Jordan Davis CGJ and what looks to be a top 10 first. And they are 6-0. Patriots have picked up 2 QBs within the last TWO seasons. Saints overvalued this roster last year. The draft process shows. The only x-factor here is potentially getting some picks from Sean playing with another team. Marcus Williams and CGJ should be our starting Safety. I like Marcus Maye personally I think the CB play outside of Marshon has been horrendous with some upside for Allontae. Other than that very poor play. RB2 Dameon Pierce Rachaad White Breece Hall. There were options. A lot of the holes that could have been filled this year was looked over with the expectation of ZERO drop off from the Defense and a Offense getting its top WR and one of the best if not the best rookie WR this year. Eagles robbed us with NO gun.

SmashMouth · 10-19-2022, 02:32 PM

At current pace , we're slotted for the #5 pick in the next draft which now belongs to another team. If we don't trade the rights to SP for multiple number 1s, what do we have to look forward to in a rich 2023 QB draft?

Boston Saint · 10-19-2022, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

At current pace , we're slotted for the #5 pick in the next draft which now belongs to another team. If we don't trade the rights to SP for multiple number 1s, what do we have to look forward to in a rich 2023 QB draft?

The 37th pick ?

BakoSaint · 10-20-2022, 01:00 AM

I think Michael Thomas wants to play, Dennis Allen wants to lead, and Mickey Loomis wants to have the cap space to improve the team. But I prefer replacing them all with individuals who are more likely to achieve those wants.

The people on hoarders want to have a clean house. But they also want to hoard. We need to stop hoarding injured players and poor leaders and clean house.

10-19-2022, 01:40 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... Originally Posted by Boston Saint All of what happens, or is written about what happens, or speculations about the quality of the field at any given stadium is separate from the basic question. Is it the players Decision or the teams? The truth is some of each of course. If player X is questionable for team A, then the Decision on if X plays (assuming X is outside of the earlier mentioned QB/concussion subgroup) depends on many variables: player’s health, team record, depth at position, etc. I’d hope we agree on this, right? For example the need for a guy at say 65% to return for a 5-1 team that is getting by at WR is different than a 2-4 team that is playing undrafted guys. Agreed? So, in the Saints case, knowing they have receivers out, and knowing Thomas is paid to be a top WR, and knowing the team needs to win and the playoff window is closing, I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”. As you point out the circumstances come into play. If the medical staff says the player doesn't play then it matters not what the coaches or the player wish. Everyone should agree that's a given. If the medical staff gives a full go then it falls on the player and the coaches. In this case I can't imagine any player saying they don't want to play. I can see a coach wanting additional practice .. possibly. If the medical staff gives a conditional go, as in the player can play but there is the chance of reaggravating the injury I can see the coaches considering the circumstances. Let's say it was a critical game such as clinching a playoff berth or an actual playoff game I can see the coaches asking the player to play. I seriously doubt any player would say no. If the game was not critical I can see the coaches making the decision to hold out the player regardless of what the player wishes. Then there's the case of the medical staff giving a conditional go, as in the player can play without chance of further aggravation but there will be pain to play through and/or painkilling required. This is the only case I can possibly see the player making the final call. Once again, however, it is very hard for me to believe any player that is motivated enough to want to be great their whole life would refuse to play under these circumstances. I have had the opportunity to know several athletes in several different sports over the years and I can honestly say that I do not believe any of them would refuse to compete if it was at all possible. It is so contrary to their basic mindset. In addition, what the player is getting paid should not be part of any of the decisions, nor do I believe it comes into play beyond the minds of fans.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

10-19-2022, 02:18 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... Originally Posted by Boston Saint All of what happens, or is written about what happens, or speculations about the quality of the field at any given stadium is separate from the basic question. Is it the players Decision or the teams? The truth is some of each of course. If player X is questionable for team A, then the Decision on if X plays (assuming X is outside of the earlier mentioned QB/concussion subgroup) depends on many variables: player’s health, team record, depth at position, etc. I’d hope we agree on this, right? For example the need for a guy at say 65% to return for a 5-1 team that is getting by at WR is different than a 2-4 team that is playing undrafted guys. Agreed? So, in the Saints case, knowing they have receivers out, and knowing Thomas is paid to be a top WR, and knowing the team needs to win and the playoff window is closing, I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”. Just out of curiosity I put this question out to a few of the Saints beat writers, Boston. "I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case?" Here's the first response: Ross Jackson @RossJacksonNOLA Replying to @AsylumGuido That's not the case. 2:14 PM · Oct 19, 2022 ·Twitter Web App Second response: @AsylumGuido · 20m Replying to @RosvoglouReport I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case? I myself can't see this being the case. Chris Rosvoglou @RosvoglouReport Replying to @AsylumGuido I highly doubt that 2:27 PM · Oct 19, 2022 ·Twitter Web App
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

10-20-2022, 07:06 AM	#3
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Just out of curiosity I put this question out to a few of the Saints beat writers, Boston. "I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case?" Here's the first response: Ross Jackson @RossJacksonNOLA Replying to @AsylumGuido That's not the case. 2:14 PM · Oct 19, 2022 ·Twitter Web App Second response: @AsylumGuido · 20m Replying to @RosvoglouReport I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case? I myself can't see this being the case. Chris Rosvoglou @RosvoglouReport Replying to @AsylumGuido I highly doubt that 2:27 PM · Oct 19, 2022 ·Twitter Web App Great. That means you are BOTH wrong.

10-18-2022, 02:42 PM	#4
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,891	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... This previous off-season is going to be the one that hurts the Saints the most. We had waaay more holes to fill other than WR which we put the house up for. DT RB2 Safety Nickel CB2 T G. We left so much bone on the table with this draft. Eagles received Nakobe Dean Jordan Davis CGJ and what looks to be a top 10 first. And they are 6-0. Patriots have picked up 2 QBs within the last TWO seasons. Saints overvalued this roster last year. The draft process shows. The only x-factor here is potentially getting some picks from Sean playing with another team. Marcus Williams and CGJ should be our starting Safety. I like Marcus Maye personally I think the CB play outside of Marshon has been horrendous with some upside for Allontae. Other than that very poor play. RB2 Dameon Pierce Rachaad White Breece Hall. There were options. A lot of the holes that could have been filled this year was looked over with the expectation of ZERO drop off from the Defense and a Offense getting its top WR and one of the best if not the best rookie WR this year. Eagles robbed us with NO gun.

10-19-2022, 02:43 PM	#6
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... Originally Posted by SmashMouth At current pace , we're slotted for the #5 pick in the next draft which now belongs to another team. If we don't trade the rights to SP for multiple number 1s, what do we have to look forward to in a rich 2023 QB draft? The 37th pick ? SmashMouth likes this.

10-19-2022, 02:32 PM	#5
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,477 Blog Entries: 29	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... At current pace , we're slotted for the #5 pick in the next draft which now belongs to another team. If we don't trade the rights to SP for multiple number 1s, what do we have to look forward to in a rich 2023 QB draft?

10-20-2022, 01:00 AM	#7
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303	Re: If we could just have our Starting core... I think Michael Thomas wants to play, Dennis Allen wants to lead, and Mickey Loomis wants to have the cap space to improve the team. But I prefer replacing them all with individuals who are more likely to achieve those wants. The people on hoarders want to have a clean house. But they also want to hoard. We need to stop hoarding injured players and poor leaders and clean house.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,303