Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers

Boston Saint · 11-29-2022, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I think there's a very fine line, I think both players and coaches are guilty of a lot this season.

In my view, players need to be held accountable for their BS.

On the other hand, a lot of people here say Dalton is awful and he just might be, but only one person makes the call to keep playing him. So that person obviously thinks there's no better player on the roster to take Dalton's spot. Which I think brings in the right for his decision making to be questioned.

I guess it varies on which way you view it.

But there are some things Allen as HC inherited. He has to go with Kamara. Because of contract he had to go with Thomas. Most of the new blood he is bringing in as coach is working with Olave and Shaeed.

dizzle88 · 11-29-2022, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Ok, so in a season that ended up 7-9 on a Halloween game, Payton, who was already established as the HC benched Ingram (whom I believe he drafted).

In my mind that is different from Allen as first year coach who did not draft Kamara trying to stay in the playoff hunt not benching the All Pro Kamara. If he had benched him, to "make a point" then all hell would have come down on his head. He went with Kamara, Kamara let him down.

Completely valid point and I agree, I guess it was just wishful thinking or maybe I was little spoilt with Payton's no nonsense brand to coaching.

Lets hope behind closed doors Alvin is very unhappy with his performance.

dizzle88 · 11-29-2022, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

But there are some things Allen as HC inherited. He has to go with Kamara. Because of contract he had to go with Thomas. Most of the new blood he is bringing in as coach is working with Olave and Shaeed.

Agreed again, I think Olave and Shaheed, with a decent QB and a better offensive coordinator, could be a great tandem.

Sinner · 11-29-2022, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Cool. I’m not a head coach. I can afford to have a more realistic opinion. Do you not want to answer the question I put out? Just wondering. I say all this with respect to your opinions Sinner.

If the question you are referring to has to do with what I was feeling, saying, or yelling during these games... or my "opinion" as a Fan... This is a poorly coached team, loaded with potential and talent, that is not being properly trained, motivated, coordinated and COACHED. It is a FACT that we have a COACHING/MANAGEMENT Problem. That's my opinion.

AsylumGuido · 11-29-2022, 04:17 PM

I am confused here. If you have a great player that doesn't have a history of fumbling the ball in critical situations for his whole career and suddenly he fumbles twice on solid, if not great, defensive plays, why is coaching suddenly the problem? Did the player forget how to hold onto the ball without a coach repeatedly tell him not to let players punch it out or drive it out with their helmet? If I am not mistaken he wasn't holding the ball loosely or well away from his body on either occasion.

I believe that Kamara has played long enough to not have to have Dennis Allen come to him to teach him how not to fumble.

Sometimes **** just happens. And this year it has happened a lot.

Sinner · 11-29-2022, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I am confused here. If you have a great player that doesn't have a history of fumbling the ball in critical situations for his whole career and suddenly he fumbles two on solid, if not great, defensive plays, why is coaching suddenly the problem? Did the player forget how to hold onto the ball without a coach repeatedly tell him not to let players punch it out or drive it out with their helmet?

I believe that Kamara has played long enough to not have to have Dennis Allen come to him to teach him how not to fumble.

If I could take you back to my original comment, and get back the extra hour of my Life spent coming full circle with you, I would/should have just asked YOU a simple question: Would you feel better with Sean Payton on the sidelines leading the Team this coming Sunday?

AsylumGuido · 11-29-2022, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

If I could take you back to my original comment, and get back the extra hour of my Life spent coming full circle with you, I would/should have just asked YOU a simple question: Would you feel better with Sean Payton on the sidelines leading the Team this coming Sunday?

Yes. Of course I would. Primarily because he would be the offensive playcaller during the game and intricately involved in the offensive game plan. Not because I believe he could prevent fumbles.

Sinner · 11-29-2022, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yes. Of course I would. Primarily because he would be the offensive playcaller during the game and intricately involved in the offensive game plan. Not because I believe he could prevent fumbles.

So the HEAD COACH has a LOT to do with WINNING GAMES... Correct?

Imagine THAT!

AsylumGuido · 11-29-2022, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

So the HEAD COACH has a LOT to do with WINNING GAMES... Correct?

Imagine THAT!

If he's effectively the offensive coordinator, then yes, on game day he is. Credit Dennis Allen that our defense is still extremely good. Blame Pete Carmichael that our offense isn't.

What has more to do with the winning of games than the head coach is injuries. Just look at the defending Super Bowl Champions. Did their head coach suddenly suck? No. They have been decimated by injuries.

Do you put the blame for the Rams woes directly on McVay just as you do Allen?

Sinner · 11-29-2022, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If he's effectively the offensive coordinator, then yes, on game day he is. Credit Dennis Allen that our defense is still extremely good. Blame Pete Carmichael that our offense isn't.

What has more to do with the winning of games than the head coach is injuries. Just look at the defending Super Bowl Champions. Did their head coach suddenly suck? No. They have been decimated by injuries.

Do you put the blame for the Rams woes directly on McVay just as you do Allen?

Same simple question to you: Would you rather see Sean Payton on the sidelines this coming Sunday? If so, why?

11-29-2022, 03:47 PM	#121
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,963	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by dizzle88 I think there's a very fine line, I think both players and coaches are guilty of a lot this season. In my view, players need to be held accountable for their BS. On the other hand, a lot of people here say Dalton is awful and he just might be, but only one person makes the call to keep playing him. So that person obviously thinks there's no better player on the roster to take Dalton's spot. Which I think brings in the right for his decision making to be questioned. I guess it varies on which way you view it. But there are some things Allen as HC inherited. He has to go with Kamara. Because of contract he had to go with Thomas. Most of the new blood he is bringing in as coach is working with Olave and Shaeed. dizzle88 likes this.

11-29-2022, 03:48 PM	#122
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint Ok, so in a season that ended up 7-9 on a Halloween game, Payton, who was already established as the HC benched Ingram (whom I believe he drafted). In my mind that is different from Allen as first year coach who did not draft Kamara trying to stay in the playoff hunt not benching the All Pro Kamara. If he had benched him, to "make a point" then all hell would have come down on his head. He went with Kamara, Kamara let him down. Completely valid point and I agree, I guess it was just wishful thinking or maybe I was little spoilt with Payton's no nonsense brand to coaching. Lets hope behind closed doors Alvin is very unhappy with his performance. Sinner likes this.

11-29-2022, 03:49 PM	#123
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint But there are some things Allen as HC inherited. He has to go with Kamara. Because of contract he had to go with Thomas. Most of the new blood he is bringing in as coach is working with Olave and Shaeed. Agreed again, I think Olave and Shaheed, with a decent QB and a better offensive coordinator, could be a great tandem.

11-29-2022, 04:06 PM	#124
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint Cool. I’m not a head coach. I can afford to have a more realistic opinion. Do you not want to answer the question I put out? Just wondering. I say all this with respect to your opinions Sinner. If the question you are referring to has to do with what I was feeling, saying, or yelling during these games... or my "opinion" as a Fan... This is a poorly coached team, loaded with potential and talent, that is not being properly trained, motivated, coordinated and COACHED. It is a FACT that we have a COACHING/MANAGEMENT Problem. That's my opinion.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908

11-29-2022, 04:17 PM	#125
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,767	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers I am confused here. If you have a great player that doesn't have a history of fumbling the ball in critical situations for his whole career and suddenly he fumbles twice on solid, if not great, defensive plays, why is coaching suddenly the problem? Did the player forget how to hold onto the ball without a coach repeatedly tell him not to let players punch it out or drive it out with their helmet? If I am not mistaken he wasn't holding the ball loosely or well away from his body on either occasion. I believe that Kamara has played long enough to not have to have Dennis Allen come to him to teach him how not to fumble. Sometimes **** just happens. And this year it has happened a lot.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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11-29-2022, 04:18 PM	#126
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I am confused here. If you have a great player that doesn't have a history of fumbling the ball in critical situations for his whole career and suddenly he fumbles two on solid, if not great, defensive plays, why is coaching suddenly the problem? Did the player forget how to hold onto the ball without a coach repeatedly tell him not to let players punch it out or drive it out with their helmet? I believe that Kamara has played long enough to not have to have Dennis Allen come to him to teach him how not to fumble. If I could take you back to my original comment, and get back the extra hour of my Life spent coming full circle with you, I would/should have just asked YOU a simple question: Would you feel better with Sean Payton on the sidelines leading the Team this coming Sunday?
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908

11-29-2022, 04:21 PM	#127
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,767	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Sinner If I could take you back to my original comment, and get back the extra hour of my Life spent coming full circle with you, I would/should have just asked YOU a simple question: Would you feel better with Sean Payton on the sidelines leading the Team this coming Sunday? Yes. Of course I would. Primarily because he would be the offensive playcaller during the game and intricately involved in the offensive game plan. Not because I believe he could prevent fumbles.

11-29-2022, 04:23 PM	#128
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yes. Of course I would. Primarily because he would be the offensive playcaller during the game and intricately involved in the offensive game plan. Not because I believe he could prevent fumbles. So the HEAD COACH has a LOT to do with WINNING GAMES... Correct? Imagine THAT! K Major likes this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908

11-29-2022, 04:29 PM	#129
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,767	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Sinner So the HEAD COACH has a LOT to do with WINNING GAMES... Correct? Imagine THAT! If he's effectively the offensive coordinator, then yes, on game day he is. Credit Dennis Allen that our defense is still extremely good. Blame Pete Carmichael that our offense isn't. What has more to do with the winning of games than the head coach is injuries. Just look at the defending Super Bowl Champions. Did their head coach suddenly suck? No. They have been decimated by injuries. Do you put the blame for the Rams woes directly on McVay just as you do Allen?

11-29-2022, 04:37 PM	#130
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If he's effectively the offensive coordinator, then yes, on game day he is. Credit Dennis Allen that our defense is still extremely good. Blame Pete Carmichael that our offense isn't. What has more to do with the winning of games than the head coach is injuries. Just look at the defending Super Bowl Champions. Did their head coach suddenly suck? No. They have been decimated by injuries. Do you put the blame for the Rams woes directly on McVay just as you do Allen? Same simple question to you: Would you rather see Sean Payton on the sidelines this coming Sunday? If so, why?
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,908