Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers

Sinner · 11-28-2022, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Perhaps. I might be wrong. I can’t see that coaching would have stopped the missed FG, The bad calls, and Kamara’s fumbles. That was my point. PleSe tell me What could Payton have done to prevent THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS.

"Bad calls" aside, a Head Coach having nothing to do with his Star Running Back's fumbles... or his Kicker missing Field Goals... or his Receiver not holding on to the ball as he hits the ground... would have to be either blind, or ineffective. PERIOD.

papz · 11-28-2022, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

^^^^

It starts with DISCIPLINE. I think many are missing here on Allen.

No attention to detail (hence Saints lead the league in false start penalties), holding coaches and players accountable. Listen at some of his post game interviews. Same song and dance, every week but says nothing to resolve a problem.

Allen isn't a rookie HC. He's had 48 games as HC and lost 36 of em.

I agree with this.

Do you think Sean P would have trotted AK back out to the field after the second fumble vs San Fran?

"Keep doing what you're doing" - Dennis Allen.

Not this. I mean... who else would we have thrown out there? I get the frustration though.

You know, I haven't considered Kamara to be a true lead back for quite some time. He's more of an offensive weapon that plays running back. I'd like to have one of those again. Someone that can pound the rock and get crucial yards when we need it. Someone that can wear down and defense and break one when we need it. The good ole Deuce days was nice. Kamara isn't that guy.

Rueben Mayes · 11-28-2022, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by papz

You know, I haven't considered Kamara to be a true lead back for quite some time. He's more of an offensive weapon that plays running back. I'd like to have one of those again. Someone that can pound the rock and get crucial yards when we need it. Someone that can wear down and defense and break one when we need it. The good ole Deuce days was nice. Kamara isn't that guy.

How much does Mark Ingram have left in the tank? I thought the idea was to use Ingram and Kamara in tandem? or something like that. I realize that SF's run D is very good but still...Andy Dalton is the Saints leading rusher for the day?

papz · 11-28-2022, 03:40 PM

Boston Saint · 11-28-2022, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

"Bad calls" aside, a Head Coach having nothing to do with his Star Running Back's fumbles... or his Kicker missing Field Goals... or his Receiver not holding on to the ball as he hits the ground... would have to be either blind, or ineffective. PERIOD.

So that doesn’t answer my question. What do you do to prevent a missed FG or Kamara fumbling? What Magic did Payton have that told Kamara not to fumble and why does Kamara feel it’s Ok to fumble now ?

Boston Saint · 11-28-2022, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

"Bad calls" aside, a Head Coach having nothing to do with his Star Running Back's fumbles... or his Kicker missing Field Goals... or his Receiver not holding on to the ball as he hits the ground... would have to be either blind, or ineffective. PERIOD.

Sinner, by this logic a coach could design the perfect play for a QB to hit a wide open receiver and because the QB makes a poor throw or the receiver drops the pass or fumbles after catching it or the ref calls a BS PI call the coach is at fault.

AsylumGuido · 11-28-2022, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sinner

So the Head Coach doesn't pay any attention or have anything to do with what we just saw on Sunday? Times have changed.

Nope. Not saying that at all. In game decisions such as going for it or not on 4th down or game clock management is mostly on the head coach, of course. But if coaching was to blame for mistakes made by the players it is more on the shoulders of the positional coaches and that comes on what they do during the week. But, once the game kicks off everything else other than playcalling falls on the players themselves. The head coach isn't fumbling the ball, missing tackles, or taking a pass off their facemask.

AsylumGuido · 11-28-2022, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Perhaps. I might be wrong. I can’t see that coaching would have stopped the missed FG, The bad calls, and Kamara’s fumbles. That was my point. PleSe tell me What could Payton have done to prevent THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS.

Exactly what I am saying.

AsylumGuido · 11-28-2022, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

So that doesn’t answer my question. What do you do to prevent a missed FG or Kamara fumbling? What Magic did Payton have that told Kamara not to fumble and why does Kamara feel it’s Ok to fumble now ?

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Sinner, by this logic a coach could design the perfect play for a QB to hit a wide open receiver and because the QB makes a poor throw or the receiver drops the pass or fumbles after catching it or the ref calls a BS PI call the coach is at fault.

Ditto and ditto.

Sinner · 11-28-2022, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Sinner, by this logic a coach could design the perfect play for a QB to hit a wide open receiver and because the QB makes a poor throw or the receiver drops the pass or fumbles after catching it or the ref calls a BS PI call the coach is at fault.

Coaches' legal Duties. ...
Plan the activity properly. ...
Provide proper instruction. ...
Provide a safe physical environment. ...
Provide adequate and proper equipment. ...
Match your athletes according to size, physical maturity, skill level and experience.
Evaluate athletes for injury and incapacity. ...
Supervise the activity closely ...
MOTIVATE and MAKE any and all necessary adjustments to maximize Players' performance/productivity.

PERIOD.

11-28-2022, 03:09 PM	#41
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,824	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint Perhaps. I might be wrong. I can’t see that coaching would have stopped the missed FG, The bad calls, and Kamara’s fumbles. That was my point. PleSe tell me What could Payton have done to prevent THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS. "Bad calls" aside, a Head Coach having nothing to do with his Star Running Back's fumbles... or his Kicker missing Field Goals... or his Receiver not holding on to the ball as he hits the ground... would have to be either blind, or ineffective. PERIOD. dizzle88 likes this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,824

11-28-2022, 03:22 PM	#42
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by K Major ^^^^ It starts with DISCIPLINE. I think many are missing here on Allen. No attention to detail (hence Saints lead the league in false start penalties), holding coaches and players accountable. Listen at some of his post game interviews. Same song and dance, every week but says nothing to resolve a problem. Allen isn't a rookie HC. He's had 48 games as HC and lost 36 of em. I agree with this. Do you think Sean P would have trotted AK back out to the field after the second fumble vs San Fran? "Keep doing what you're doing" - Dennis Allen. Not this. I mean... who else would we have thrown out there? I get the frustration though. You know, I haven't considered Kamara to be a true lead back for quite some time. He's more of an offensive weapon that plays running back. I'd like to have one of those again. Someone that can pound the rock and get crucial yards when we need it. Someone that can wear down and defense and break one when we need it. The good ole Deuce days was nice. Kamara isn't that guy. leilung, Sinner and Boston Saint like this.

11-28-2022, 03:29 PM	#43
Rueben Mayes 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 134	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by papz You know, I haven't considered Kamara to be a true lead back for quite some time. He's more of an offensive weapon that plays running back. I'd like to have one of those again. Someone that can pound the rock and get crucial yards when we need it. Someone that can wear down and defense and break one when we need it. The good ole Deuce days was nice. Kamara isn't that guy. How much does Mark Ingram have left in the tank? I thought the idea was to use Ingram and Kamara in tandem? or something like that. I realize that SF's run D is very good but still...Andy Dalton is the Saints leading rusher for the day? Sinner and Boston Saint like this.
Rueben Mayes 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 134

11-28-2022, 03:40 PM	#44
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers neugey, leilung, Sinner and 1 others like this.

11-28-2022, 04:13 PM	#45
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Sinner "Bad calls" aside, a Head Coach having nothing to do with his Star Running Back's fumbles... or his Kicker missing Field Goals... or his Receiver not holding on to the ball as he hits the ground... would have to be either blind, or ineffective. PERIOD. So that doesn’t answer my question. What do you do to prevent a missed FG or Kamara fumbling? What Magic did Payton have that told Kamara not to fumble and why does Kamara feel it’s Ok to fumble now ? AsylumGuido likes this.

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11-28-2022, 04:19 PM	#46
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Sinner "Bad calls" aside, a Head Coach having nothing to do with his Star Running Back's fumbles... or his Kicker missing Field Goals... or his Receiver not holding on to the ball as he hits the ground... would have to be either blind, or ineffective. PERIOD. Sinner, by this logic a coach could design the perfect play for a QB to hit a wide open receiver and because the QB makes a poor throw or the receiver drops the pass or fumbles after catching it or the ref calls a BS PI call the coach is at fault. AsylumGuido likes this.

11-28-2022, 04:24 PM	#47
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Sinner So the Head Coach doesn't pay any attention or have anything to do with what we just saw on Sunday? Times have changed. Nope. Not saying that at all. In game decisions such as going for it or not on 4th down or game clock management is mostly on the head coach, of course. But if coaching was to blame for mistakes made by the players it is more on the shoulders of the positional coaches and that comes on what they do during the week. But, once the game kicks off everything else other than playcalling falls on the players themselves. The head coach isn't fumbling the ball, missing tackles, or taking a pass off their facemask.

11-28-2022, 04:25 PM	#48
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint Perhaps. I might be wrong. I can’t see that coaching would have stopped the missed FG, The bad calls, and Kamara’s fumbles. That was my point. PleSe tell me What could Payton have done to prevent THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS. Exactly what I am saying.

11-28-2022, 04:27 PM	#49
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint So that doesn’t answer my question. What do you do to prevent a missed FG or Kamara fumbling? What Magic did Payton have that told Kamara not to fumble and why does Kamara feel it’s Ok to fumble now ? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Sinner, by this logic a coach could design the perfect play for a QB to hit a wide open receiver and because the QB makes a poor throw or the receiver drops the pass or fumbles after catching it or the ref calls a BS PI call the coach is at fault. Ditto and ditto.

11-28-2022, 04:35 PM	#50
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,824	Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers Originally Posted by Boston Saint Sinner, by this logic a coach could design the perfect play for a QB to hit a wide open receiver and because the QB makes a poor throw or the receiver drops the pass or fumbles after catching it or the ref calls a BS PI call the coach is at fault. Coaches' legal Duties. ... Plan the activity properly. ... Provide proper instruction. ... Provide a safe physical environment. ... Provide adequate and proper equipment. ... Match your athletes according to size, physical maturity, skill level and experience. Evaluate athletes for injury and incapacity. ... Supervise the activity closely ... MOTIVATE and MAKE any and all necessary adjustments to maximize Players' performance/productivity. PERIOD.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,824