Evaluating Coaches

MatthewT · 01-18-2023, 02:18 PM

Back in the Jim Mora era, it was widely assumed the conservative/crappy play calling was because of Carl Smith. Many years later it was leaked by several ex players it was Jim Mora calling the shots the entire time and that Carl Smith was only doing what he was told to do. The point of this is on the surface we can all assume it's Pete Carmichael's fault, but it really could be the plays that the Dennis Allen is wanting called.

AsylumGuido · 01-18-2023, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

Back in the Jim Mora era, it was widely assumed the conservative/crappy play calling was because of Carl Smith. Many years later it was leaked by several ex players it was Jim Mora calling the shots the entire time and that Carl Smith was only doing what he was told to do. The point of this is on the surface we can all assume it's Pete Carmichael's fault, but it really could be the plays that the Dennis Allen is wanting called.

Possibly, although I'll give Mora a pass for leading us to our first five winning seasons in his first seven years as head coach. And first four playoff appearances. Hopefully we see at least the same from Allen moving forward.

AsylumGuido · 01-18-2023, 04:35 PM

Back to the topic ...

As for both Nielsen and Richard, I'd miss them more for their individual position duties than as the co-DC's. Dennis Allen was running that defense and is the primary reason it is still elite. He's still doing all of the defensive playcalling and I wouldn't expect that to change. Their spots can be filled if we lose either or both without too much adversity.

AsylumGuido · 01-18-2023, 04:59 PM

I've been doing more thinking about Carmichael. He was intricately involved in the play design phase for the last decade and a half. Sure, it's easier to design plays when it's Brees out there to execute them, but I doubt he's forgotten everything about that aspect of the job. I see his problem this past season as being far too conservative in the actual playcalling. Looking back over the years there have been occasions where he had those duties for one reason or another and was surprisingly aggressive and quite effective in making his calls.

What has changed? Is it perhaps the responsibility is too large? Is he concerned about screwing up? Did he not trust the QB's or the line? Did Allen, as was mentioned earlier, tell him to be conservative?

Rugby Saint II · 02-21-2023, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I've been doing more thinking about Carmichael. He was intricately involved in the play design phase for the last decade and a half. Sure, it's easier to design plays when it's Brees out there to execute them, but I doubt he's forgotten everything about that aspect of the job. I see his problem this past season as being far too conservative in the actual playcalling. Looking back over the years there have been occasions where he had those duties for one reason or another and was surprisingly aggressive and quite effective in making his calls.

What has changed? Is it perhaps the responsibility is too large? Is he concerned about screwing up? Did he not trust the QB's or the line? Did Allen, as was mentioned earlier, tell him to be conservative?

Like Dennis Allen, Carmichael is also in over his head. Although, when he called plays previously he was still calling plays for a team built by Sean Payton. If I remember correctly he did not want to be offensive coordinator last year and had to be talked into it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Allen told Pete Carmichael to play not to lose. Just keep doing what you're doing.

AsylumGuido · 02-21-2023, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Like Dennis Allen, Carmichael is also in over his head. Although, when he called plays previously he was still calling plays for a team built by Sean Payton. If I remember correctly he did not want to be offensive coordinator last year and had to be talked into it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Allen told Pete Carmichael to play not to lose. Just keep doing what you're doing.

I humbly believe you remember incorrectly, Rugs. I believe I have heard a few others make the same mistake. That's probably where you got the misinformation. It was head coach that he wasn't interest in pursuing. That's what I read from a couple of beat writers. Underhill or Duncan, perhaps. At no point did he ever indicate he didn't want to return to the OC job. In fact, that was likely the whole reason why he wasn't interested in head coaching position. He knows his niche.

Let's not forget that the new change in the Rooney rule in 2021 required coordinator jobs to have minority interviews, as well. Two exterior and one interior minority candidates.

With a new head coach Carmichael basically went back through the interview process under the new rules. That may be where some of the confusion took place.

Sinner · 01-18-2023, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

Back in the Jim Mora era, it was widely assumed the conservative/crappy play calling was because of Carl Smith. Many years later it was leaked by several ex players it was Jim Mora calling the shots the entire time and that Carl Smith was only doing what he was told to do. The point of this is on the surface we can all assume it's Pete Carmichael's fault, but it really could be the plays that the Dennis Allen is wanting called.

And Jim Mora had a personality.

01-18-2023, 02:18 PM	#1
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Evaluating Coaches Back in the Jim Mora era, it was widely assumed the conservative/crappy play calling was because of Carl Smith. Many years later it was leaked by several ex players it was Jim Mora calling the shots the entire time and that Carl Smith was only doing what he was told to do. The point of this is on the surface we can all assume it's Pete Carmichael's fault, but it really could be the plays that the Dennis Allen is wanting called. leilung, Rugby Saint II and Sinner like this.

01-18-2023, 02:28 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,702	Re: Evaluating Coaches Originally Posted by MatthewT Back in the Jim Mora era, it was widely assumed the conservative/crappy play calling was because of Carl Smith. Many years later it was leaked by several ex players it was Jim Mora calling the shots the entire time and that Carl Smith was only doing what he was told to do. The point of this is on the surface we can all assume it's Pete Carmichael's fault, but it really could be the plays that the Dennis Allen is wanting called. Possibly, although I'll give Mora a pass for leading us to our first five winning seasons in his first seven years as head coach. And first four playoff appearances. Hopefully we see at least the same from Allen moving forward. MatthewT likes this.

01-18-2023, 04:35 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,702	Re: Evaluating Coaches Back to the topic ... As for both Nielsen and Richard, I'd miss them more for their individual position duties than as the co-DC's. Dennis Allen was running that defense and is the primary reason it is still elite. He's still doing all of the defensive playcalling and I wouldn't expect that to change. Their spots can be filled if we lose either or both without too much adversity. Rugby Saint II likes this.

01-18-2023, 04:59 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,702	Re: Evaluating Coaches I've been doing more thinking about Carmichael. He was intricately involved in the play design phase for the last decade and a half. Sure, it's easier to design plays when it's Brees out there to execute them, but I doubt he's forgotten everything about that aspect of the job. I see his problem this past season as being far too conservative in the actual playcalling. Looking back over the years there have been occasions where he had those duties for one reason or another and was surprisingly aggressive and quite effective in making his calls. What has changed? Is it perhaps the responsibility is too large? Is he concerned about screwing up? Did he not trust the QB's or the line? Did Allen, as was mentioned earlier, tell him to be conservative?
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-21-2023, 03:35 PM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,179	Re: Evaluating Coaches Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I've been doing more thinking about Carmichael. He was intricately involved in the play design phase for the last decade and a half. Sure, it's easier to design plays when it's Brees out there to execute them, but I doubt he's forgotten everything about that aspect of the job. I see his problem this past season as being far too conservative in the actual playcalling. Looking back over the years there have been occasions where he had those duties for one reason or another and was surprisingly aggressive and quite effective in making his calls. What has changed? Is it perhaps the responsibility is too large? Is he concerned about screwing up? Did he not trust the QB's or the line? Did Allen, as was mentioned earlier, tell him to be conservative? Like Dennis Allen, Carmichael is also in over his head. Although, when he called plays previously he was still calling plays for a team built by Sean Payton. If I remember correctly he did not want to be offensive coordinator last year and had to be talked into it. I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Allen told Pete Carmichael to play not to lose. Just keep doing what you're doing. Sinner likes this.

02-21-2023, 04:02 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,702	Re: Evaluating Coaches Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Like Dennis Allen, Carmichael is also in over his head. Although, when he called plays previously he was still calling plays for a team built by Sean Payton. If I remember correctly he did not want to be offensive coordinator last year and had to be talked into it. I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Allen told Pete Carmichael to play not to lose. Just keep doing what you're doing. I humbly believe you remember incorrectly, Rugs. I believe I have heard a few others make the same mistake. That's probably where you got the misinformation. It was head coach that he wasn't interest in pursuing. That's what I read from a couple of beat writers. Underhill or Duncan, perhaps. At no point did he ever indicate he didn't want to return to the OC job. In fact, that was likely the whole reason why he wasn't interested in head coaching position. He knows his niche. Let's not forget that the new change in the Rooney rule in 2021 required coordinator jobs to have minority interviews, as well. Two exterior and one interior minority candidates. With a new head coach Carmichael basically went back through the interview process under the new rules. That may be where some of the confusion took place. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-18-2023, 03:20 PM	#7
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,072	Re: Evaluating Coaches Originally Posted by MatthewT Back in the Jim Mora era, it was widely assumed the conservative/crappy play calling was because of Carl Smith. Many years later it was leaked by several ex players it was Jim Mora calling the shots the entire time and that Carl Smith was only doing what he was told to do. The point of this is on the surface we can all assume it's Pete Carmichael's fault, but it really could be the plays that the Dennis Allen is wanting called. And Jim Mora had a personality. UK_WhoDat and Rugby Saint II like this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,072