What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB?

TheOak · 01-28-2023, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

That's some funny stuff right there. It is both sad and true.

Know why I’m not getting caught up in the ‘what could we get for Sean’ discussion? Because everything that I have seen for the last 2-3 years tells me that one one playbook exists presently and it was written by Sean Payton for Drew/Taysom combo. Otherwise 2022 would have been the perfect opportunity to open it. I saw no greater development out of any of the QBs on our roster, so it’s probably safe to assume Sean was the man behind that as well.

There is a reason that Pete is the longest tenured OC in the league. No one college or professional team is interested enough to make an honest poaching run at him. 15 years at OC.

Just for grins, say we get the magical #1 draft pick for Sean.. It doesn’t matter whether you pick a new QB or trade it for a dozen other picks. They all land in a tired system schemed for someone else run by coaches that can not make adjustments.

As far as optimism goes.. I’m rather pragmatic and find it easier to handle the inevitable low if I haven’t rationalized a high leading up to it. I’ll get excited when someone in the organization does something to change its present path. Anything really…. Get a new water boy… just stop only showing up to collect a check.

dizzle88 · 01-28-2023, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Know why I’m not getting caught up in the ‘what could we get for Sean’ discussion? Because everything that I have seen for the last 2-3 years tells me that one one playbook exists presently and it was written by Sean Payton for Drew/Taysom combo. Otherwise 2022 would have been the perfect opportunity to open it. I saw no greater development out of any of the QBs on our roster, so it’s probably safe to assume Sean was the man behind that as well.

There is a reason that Pete is the longest tenured OC in the league. No one college or professional team is interested enough to make an honest poaching run at him. 15 years at OC.

Just for grins, say we get the magical #1 draft pick for Sean.. It doesn’t matter whether you pick a new QB or trade it for a dozen other picks. They all land in a tired system schemed for someone else run by coaches that can not make adjustments.

As far as optimism goes.. I’m rather pragmatic and find it easier to handle the inevitable low if I haven’t rationalized a high leading up to it. I’ll get excited when someone in the organization does something to change its present path. Anything really…. Get a new water boy… just stop only showing up to collect a check.

Couldn't have worded it any better myself.

The fact that zero changes were made to the offense, when it was easy to tell early on they were letting this team down.

Notice how Paulson Adebo was seemingly having "the best training camp" and then the minute the season starts, every team abuses him.

PC is no offensive coordinator, he's an assistant with schematics.

SmashMouth · 01-28-2023, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Know why I’m not getting caught up in the ‘what could we get for Sean’ discussion? Because everything that I have seen for the last 2-3 years tells me that one one playbook exists presently and it was written by Sean Payton for Drew/Taysom combo. Otherwise 2022 would have been the perfect opportunity to open it. I saw no greater development out of any of the QBs on our roster, so it’s probably safe to assume Sean was the man behind that as well.

There is a reason that Pete is the longest tenured OC in the league. No one college or professional team is interested enough to make an honest poaching run at him. 15 years at OC.

Just for grins, say we get the magical #1 draft pick for Sean.. It doesn’t matter whether you pick a new QB or trade it for a dozen other picks. They all land in a tired system schemed for someone else run by coaches that can not make adjustments.

As far as optimism goes.. I’m rather pragmatic and find it easier to handle the inevitable low if I haven’t rationalized a high leading up to it. I’ll get excited when someone in the organization does something to change its present path. Anything really…. Get a new water boy… just stop only showing up to collect a check.

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Couldn't have worded it any better myself.

The fact that zero changes were made to the offense, when it was easy to tell early on they were letting this team down.

Notice how Paulson Adebo was seemingly having "the best training camp" and then the minute the season starts, every team abuses him.

PC is no offensive coordinator, he's an assistant with schematics.

Both compelling arguments for the failure of the organization to move forward with the now HC of the Jaguars, this person from north Louisiana whom would have certainly chosen differently and led us to a more respectable record IMHO.

The question then rears its ugly head, why then was DA indeed chosen as HC under the guise of "continuity"? A little voice in my head, albeit possibly wrong, whispers to me a deal was struck, a secret deal if you will, with SP and Loomis for this very scenario which is unfolding before our very eyes. We may never know... Or will we?

halloween 65 · 01-28-2023, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Both compelling arguments for the failure of the organization to move forward with the now HC of the Jaguars, this person from north Louisiana whom would have certainly chosen differently and led us to a more respectable record IMHO.

The question then rears its ugly head, why then was DA indeed chosen as HC under the guise of "continuity"? A little voice in my head, albeit possibly wrong, whispers to me a deal was struck, a secret deal if you will, with SP and Loomis for this very scenario which is unfolding before our very eyes. We may never know... Or will we?

I do like what you have said here. You know as well as I do that Payton before Allen became DC had never come close to giving any other DC the draft picks or skilled players in FA. In my opinion Payton cost us a few Superbowls by not having a good D. Payton give Allen a Playmate DC ( Guthrie or whatever his name was) to help him learn to be a DC. Now that Allens a HC for a 2nd time it's like rinse and repeat, he's not HC material and without Payton I have high doubts he's all that good of a DC. I just can't bite on this guy being as good as some ppl think he is. I told my wife when we played the Lions yrs. back Allen was going to blow that game, he threw everyone at Stafford and Stafford hit the long ball beating us. He's a lousy gambler, the kind that hits occasionally but never is going to win in the long run. Benson bought a turd in Allen

TheOak · 01-29-2023, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Both compelling arguments for the failure of the organization to move forward with the now HC of the Jaguars, this person from north Louisiana whom would have certainly chosen differently and led us to a more respectable record IMHO.

The question then rears its ugly head, why then was DA indeed chosen as HC under the guise of "continuity"? A little voice in my head, albeit possibly wrong, whispers to me a deal was struck, a secret deal if you will, with SP and Loomis for this very scenario which is unfolding before our very eyes. We may never know... Or will we?

It’s easy to get caught up in the weeds and sometimes that makes people miss the forest.

Possible scenarios:
- A $3.5BN franchise had a succession plan, and like most succession plans, a logical name is put in a box. DA has head coaching experience. It’s a common exercise organizations use to show upward mobility. They rarely auto promote the guy in the box.

- The likely scenario. Sean is still under contract and the franchise wanted to leave the door open in the slim chance that he wanted to come back. DA takes the clipboard for a year.

The result of both is the same and it’s likely a combination of the two and where we are. Remember DA was not given a new contract. The outcome was spun as continuity and some bit hard. It was damage control.

Now, what has not come up and I suspect it will, is that Dennis Allen being appointed as Saints head coach is a complete circumvention of the Roony Rule. Loomis announcing that Dennis Allen would be HC in 2023 shines a spotlight on the fact that there were never any interviews for Saints HC, much less minority interviews.

The big question becomes, did Loomis announce that to kill the speculation or shine a light as a tool to get rid of DA?

Stay tuned for more episodes of ‘How Dat Fleur-de-Lis Spin’.

SmashMouth · 01-29-2023, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

It’s easy to get caught up in the weeds and sometimes that makes people miss the forest.

Possible scenarios:
- A $3.5BN franchise had a succession plan, and like most succession plans, a logical name is put in a box. DA has head coaching experience. It’s a common exercise organizations use to show upward mobility. They rarely auto promote the guy in the box.

- The likely scenario. Sean is still under contract and the franchise wanted to leave the door open in the slim chance that he wanted to come back. DA takes the clipboard for a year.

The result of both is the same and it’s likely a combination of the two and where we are. Remember DA was not given a new contract. The outcome was spun as continuity and some bit hard. It was damage control.

Now, what has not come up and I suspect it will, is that Dennis Allen being appointed as Saints head coach is a complete circumvention of the Roony Rule. Loomis announcing that Dennis Allen would be HC in 2023 shines a spotlight on the fact that there were never any interviews for Saints HC, much less minority interviews.

The big question becomes, did Loomis announce that to kill the speculation or shine a light as a tool to get rid of DA?

Stay tuned for more episodes of ‘How Dat Fleur-de-Lis Spin’.

Had to look up the contract situation.
https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/

Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF.

Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret?

AsylumGuido · 01-29-2023, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Had to look up the contract situation.
https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/

Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF.

Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret?

Coaches contracts are not required to be shared publicly because they are not tied to the cap. Jeff Duncan shared in an interview a couple of days ago that even though Payton's contract was publicly considered to be in the $8-$10 million range he was actually making closer to $17-$18 million with job related endorsement tie ins and such.

SmashMouth · 01-29-2023, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Coaches contracts are not required to be shared publicly because they are not tied to the cap. Jeff Duncan shared in an interview a couple of days ago that even though Payton's contract was publicly considered to be in the $8-$10 million range he was actually making closer to $17-$18 million with job related endorsement tie ins and such.

We know this... yet nonetheless we have details on many HCs throughout the league. And DA's contract details are a secret... seems rather odd.

halloween 65 · 01-29-2023, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Had to look up the contract situation.
https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/

Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF.

Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret?

Whatever they're paying the bum is to much. He should be in the unemployment line.

TheOak · 01-30-2023, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Had to look up the contract situation.
https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/

Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF.

Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret?

I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path.

If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through.

My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now.

1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return.
2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently.

There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package

.

A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick.

01-28-2023, 07:18 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II That's some funny stuff right there. It is both sad and true. Know why I’m not getting caught up in the ‘what could we get for Sean’ discussion? Because everything that I have seen for the last 2-3 years tells me that one one playbook exists presently and it was written by Sean Payton for Drew/Taysom combo. Otherwise 2022 would have been the perfect opportunity to open it. I saw no greater development out of any of the QBs on our roster, so it’s probably safe to assume Sean was the man behind that as well. There is a reason that Pete is the longest tenured OC in the league. No one college or professional team is interested enough to make an honest poaching run at him. 15 years at OC. Just for grins, say we get the magical #1 draft pick for Sean.. It doesn’t matter whether you pick a new QB or trade it for a dozen other picks. They all land in a tired system schemed for someone else run by coaches that can not make adjustments. As far as optimism goes.. I’m rather pragmatic and find it easier to handle the inevitable low if I haven’t rationalized a high leading up to it. I’ll get excited when someone in the organization does something to change its present path. Anything really…. Get a new water boy… just stop only showing up to collect a check. UK_WhoDat, SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and 4 others like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-28-2023, 07:33 AM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak Know why I’m not getting caught up in the ‘what could we get for Sean’ discussion? Because everything that I have seen for the last 2-3 years tells me that one one playbook exists presently and it was written by Sean Payton for Drew/Taysom combo. Otherwise 2022 would have been the perfect opportunity to open it. I saw no greater development out of any of the QBs on our roster, so it’s probably safe to assume Sean was the man behind that as well. There is a reason that Pete is the longest tenured OC in the league. No one college or professional team is interested enough to make an honest poaching run at him. 15 years at OC. Just for grins, say we get the magical #1 draft pick for Sean.. It doesn’t matter whether you pick a new QB or trade it for a dozen other picks. They all land in a tired system schemed for someone else run by coaches that can not make adjustments. As far as optimism goes.. I’m rather pragmatic and find it easier to handle the inevitable low if I haven’t rationalized a high leading up to it. I’ll get excited when someone in the organization does something to change its present path. Anything really…. Get a new water boy… just stop only showing up to collect a check. Couldn't have worded it any better myself. The fact that zero changes were made to the offense, when it was easy to tell early on they were letting this team down. Notice how Paulson Adebo was seemingly having "the best training camp" and then the minute the season starts, every team abuses him. PC is no offensive coordinator, he's an assistant with schematics. SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and Sinner like this.

01-28-2023, 08:37 AM	#3
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,803 Blog Entries: 29	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak Know why I’m not getting caught up in the ‘what could we get for Sean’ discussion? Because everything that I have seen for the last 2-3 years tells me that one one playbook exists presently and it was written by Sean Payton for Drew/Taysom combo. Otherwise 2022 would have been the perfect opportunity to open it. I saw no greater development out of any of the QBs on our roster, so it’s probably safe to assume Sean was the man behind that as well. There is a reason that Pete is the longest tenured OC in the league. No one college or professional team is interested enough to make an honest poaching run at him. 15 years at OC. Just for grins, say we get the magical #1 draft pick for Sean.. It doesn’t matter whether you pick a new QB or trade it for a dozen other picks. They all land in a tired system schemed for someone else run by coaches that can not make adjustments. As far as optimism goes.. I’m rather pragmatic and find it easier to handle the inevitable low if I haven’t rationalized a high leading up to it. I’ll get excited when someone in the organization does something to change its present path. Anything really…. Get a new water boy… just stop only showing up to collect a check. Originally Posted by dizzle88 Couldn't have worded it any better myself. The fact that zero changes were made to the offense, when it was easy to tell early on they were letting this team down. Notice how Paulson Adebo was seemingly having "the best training camp" and then the minute the season starts, every team abuses him. PC is no offensive coordinator, he's an assistant with schematics. Both compelling arguments for the failure of the organization to move forward with the now HC of the Jaguars, this person from north Louisiana whom would have certainly chosen differently and led us to a more respectable record IMHO. The question then rears its ugly head, why then was DA indeed chosen as HC under the guise of "continuity"? A little voice in my head, albeit possibly wrong, whispers to me a deal was struck, a secret deal if you will, with SP and Loomis for this very scenario which is unfolding before our very eyes. We may never know... Or will we? UK_WhoDat and halloween 65 like this.

01-28-2023, 09:07 AM	#4
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Both compelling arguments for the failure of the organization to move forward with the now HC of the Jaguars, this person from north Louisiana whom would have certainly chosen differently and led us to a more respectable record IMHO. The question then rears its ugly head, why then was DA indeed chosen as HC under the guise of "continuity"? A little voice in my head, albeit possibly wrong, whispers to me a deal was struck, a secret deal if you will, with SP and Loomis for this very scenario which is unfolding before our very eyes. We may never know... Or will we? I do like what you have said here. You know as well as I do that Payton before Allen became DC had never come close to giving any other DC the draft picks or skilled players in FA. In my opinion Payton cost us a few Superbowls by not having a good D. Payton give Allen a Playmate DC ( Guthrie or whatever his name was) to help him learn to be a DC. Now that Allens a HC for a 2nd time it's like rinse and repeat, he's not HC material and without Payton I have high doubts he's all that good of a DC. I just can't bite on this guy being as good as some ppl think he is. I told my wife when we played the Lions yrs. back Allen was going to blow that game, he threw everyone at Stafford and Stafford hit the long ball beating us. He's a lousy gambler, the kind that hits occasionally but never is going to win in the long run. Benson bought a turd in Allen SmashMouth likes this.

01-29-2023, 10:20 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Both compelling arguments for the failure of the organization to move forward with the now HC of the Jaguars, this person from north Louisiana whom would have certainly chosen differently and led us to a more respectable record IMHO. The question then rears its ugly head, why then was DA indeed chosen as HC under the guise of "continuity"? A little voice in my head, albeit possibly wrong, whispers to me a deal was struck, a secret deal if you will, with SP and Loomis for this very scenario which is unfolding before our very eyes. We may never know... Or will we? It’s easy to get caught up in the weeds and sometimes that makes people miss the forest. Possible scenarios: - A $3.5BN franchise had a succession plan, and like most succession plans, a logical name is put in a box. DA has head coaching experience. It’s a common exercise organizations use to show upward mobility. They rarely auto promote the guy in the box. - The likely scenario. Sean is still under contract and the franchise wanted to leave the door open in the slim chance that he wanted to come back. DA takes the clipboard for a year. The result of both is the same and it’s likely a combination of the two and where we are. Remember DA was not given a new contract. The outcome was spun as continuity and some bit hard. It was damage control. Now, what has not come up and I suspect it will, is that Dennis Allen being appointed as Saints head coach is a complete circumvention of the Roony Rule. Loomis announcing that Dennis Allen would be HC in 2023 shines a spotlight on the fact that there were never any interviews for Saints HC, much less minority interviews. The big question becomes, did Loomis announce that to kill the speculation or shine a light as a tool to get rid of DA? Stay tuned for more episodes of ‘How Dat Fleur-de-Lis Spin’. SmashMouth and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-29-2023, 10:52 AM	#6
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,803 Blog Entries: 29	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak It’s easy to get caught up in the weeds and sometimes that makes people miss the forest. Possible scenarios: - A $3.5BN franchise had a succession plan, and like most succession plans, a logical name is put in a box. DA has head coaching experience. It’s a common exercise organizations use to show upward mobility. They rarely auto promote the guy in the box. - The likely scenario. Sean is still under contract and the franchise wanted to leave the door open in the slim chance that he wanted to come back. DA takes the clipboard for a year. The result of both is the same and it’s likely a combination of the two and where we are. Remember DA was not given a new contract. The outcome was spun as continuity and some bit hard. It was damage control. Now, what has not come up and I suspect it will, is that Dennis Allen being appointed as Saints head coach is a complete circumvention of the Roony Rule. Loomis announcing that Dennis Allen would be HC in 2023 shines a spotlight on the fact that there were never any interviews for Saints HC, much less minority interviews. The big question becomes, did Loomis announce that to kill the speculation or shine a light as a tool to get rid of DA? Stay tuned for more episodes of ‘How Dat Fleur-de-Lis Spin’. Had to look up the contract situation. https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/ Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF. Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret?

01-29-2023, 11:29 AM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Had to look up the contract situation. https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/ Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF. Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret? Coaches contracts are not required to be shared publicly because they are not tied to the cap. Jeff Duncan shared in an interview a couple of days ago that even though Payton's contract was publicly considered to be in the $8-$10 million range he was actually making closer to $17-$18 million with job related endorsement tie ins and such.

01-29-2023, 11:32 AM	#8
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,803 Blog Entries: 29	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Coaches contracts are not required to be shared publicly because they are not tied to the cap. Jeff Duncan shared in an interview a couple of days ago that even though Payton's contract was publicly considered to be in the $8-$10 million range he was actually making closer to $17-$18 million with job related endorsement tie ins and such. We know this... yet nonetheless we have details on many HCs throughout the league. And DA's contract details are a secret... seems rather odd.

01-29-2023, 11:36 AM	#9
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Had to look up the contract situation. https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/ Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF. Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret? Whatever they're paying the bum is to much. He should be in the unemployment line. SmashMouth, dizzle88, Sinner and 1 others like this.

01-30-2023, 06:44 AM	#10
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Had to look up the contract situation. https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/ Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF. Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret? I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path. If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through. My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now. 1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return. 2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently. There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package . A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick. SmashMouth, Sinner, halloween 65 and 1 others like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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