Why not? Just curious.

Yeah. Why not?

Or....if we're lucky we start slow and the Saints fire DA midseason. KK steps in and becomes the next future HOF coach.

Both Mike Ditka and Jim Haslett were let go after 3-13 seasons. Loomis was around for both of these I believe. Why would you think that all of a sudden that the brass would fire Allen mid-season?

I really wonder exactly what Allen has done to hurt so many people and garner this level of hate when the absolute worst that can be said about his tenure at 17-17 with the Saints is that he's mediocre at worst?

SFIAH

Both Mike Ditka and Jim Haslett were let go after 3-13 seasons. Loomis was around for both of these I believe. Why would you think that all of a sudden that the brass would fire Allen mid-season?

I really wonder exactly what Allen has done to hurt so many people and garner this level of hate when the absolute worst that can be said about his tenure at 17-17 with the Saints is that he's mediocre at worst?

SFIAH

As a noted philosopher once expounded, "Haters gonna hate."

Both Mike Ditka and Jim Haslett were let go after 3-13 seasons. Loomis was around for both of these I believe. Why would you think that all of a sudden that the brass would fire Allen mid-season?

I really wonder exactly what Allen has done to hurt so many people and garner this level of hate when the absolute worst that can be said about his tenure at 17-17 with the Saints is that he's mediocre at worst?

SFIAH

I guess I am thinking people change when 20-30 years pass or they are different people altogether. With Ditka, decisions would have been made by Tom Benson who is dead now and others who are gone now. It was complicated by Ditka being a hall of fame legend coach and player with a previous super bowl win, whose firing in season might have been seen across the league as highly disrespectful and prevented the Saints from hiring other top candidates.

With Haslett it would have been Tom Benson and Mickey Loomis deciding, not sure what Lauscha's role was in 2005-2006 so maybe him also, and also Katrina was a factor that might have made an in-season firing much different. Firing your coach in season after your team relocated in season to multiple other cities due to an unprecedented natural disaster could have been seen as cruel.

Now the decisions would be made by Gayle, a 20 years older Loomis, and Lauscha, without the complication of a hurricane relocated season or a hall of fame coach. It would be firing a perceived mediocre to poor head coach during his third season with the team who had never been to the playoffs and was also fired during his 3rd season with his previous team. I don't see why the Saints would be way less likely to make a change in season than the average NFL team, given that the previous precedents are so far in the past with such different circumstances. DA ain't a legend like Ditka, and he can't blame a storm like Katrina, he is just a random ok DC who was lucky to get a 2nd chance as head coach and has done nothing great so far.

I am wondering if anyone can come with a good precedent for what many fans are expecting Klint Kubiak to become. Essentially the rosie fan argument is 'Yes, DA has been a mediocre head coach for 5 years. Derek Carr is under appreciated and will surprise people but doesn't need to be Patrick Mahomes. Because all the Saints were missing is Klint Kubiak, the most brilliant young offensive mind in the NFL, who will revitalize the Saints as offensive coordinator, make us Super Bowl contenders, bring multiple rings, and perhaps take over as head coach, or become the crown of the Dennis Allen coaching tree as they duel in many future bowls if he leaves.'

I honestly think the jury is still out on Klint Kubiak. He could be the next Sean Payton, Kyle Shannahan, or heck maybe Bill Walsh, or he could be the next Nathaniel Hackett or Josh McDaniels, its hard to know. His resume is mixed bag.

But where I have trouble is finding the past precedent, the mold for what Kubiak is supposed to become according to the Rosies. I genuinely want to hear who you think Kubiak will become like, and how that will prove a long term answer for the Saints.

My problem is this: when I look at great NFL offensive coordinators who won championships and become great head coaches, I see no precedent for what Kubiak is supposed to bring. Kyle Shannahan was a good OC and seems to be a good HC but never won a ring either way. Bill Walsh did not have championship level success at the OC level before he became an HC. Neither did Sean Payton, who actually had a lot of ups and downs as an offensive coordinator. Neither did Mike McCarthy who made but a small difference when he was the Saints OC. Joe Gibbs was a highly respected OC, but again could not win until he became a head coach.

So who, in the entire history of the NFL, was the genius offensive coordinator who elevated a seemingly mediocre head coach and good but not great QB to a championship, and with his later work was able to show that he was the difference maker and create a genuine debate that he was as responsible as the head coach for bringing a ring, by winning one of his own later as a head coach.

Has any coach in NFL history won a Super Bowl as both OC and HC? I can actually find two examples, that actually connect together: Mike Shannahan and Gary Kubiak. The problem is that neither won their rings under QBs or head coaches who were considered mediocre before their arrival. Shannahan came to a team that already had a Super Bowl winning head coach in George Seifert, running an offense installed by Bill Walsh with Steve Young and Jerry Rice. Then Shannahan went to Denver as head coach where he eventually won a couple rings with John Elway, while Gary Kubiak was his OC to an offensive coach with fairly minimal credit. Gary Kubiak was mostly then average as a head coach, until he finally won a ring after bringing in Peyton Manning, and won mostly on the strength of defense with Von Miller. Neither won as an offensive coordinator without a great offensive coach above them and a great QB.

I guess my point is that I don't think any coach who has ever coached football in the history of the NFL could come to a team with a .500-ish or worse veteran coach and a .500-ish or worse veteran QB and be enough of a difference maker to turn everything around on the path to a championship. If you cloned the the brain of Bill Walsh 35 years ago, choreographed his life to give him every ideal exposure to modern NFL offenses, and then installed him as the 2024 Saints Offensive Coordinator under Dennis Allen working with Derek Carr, I think the best difference he could make would be about what difference Bill Walsh made with the Bengals with Paul Brown and Ken Anderson, or what a Shanahan or Gary Kubiak accomplished in their other OC gigs without a great head coach or QB. Essentially I think the offensive coordinator miracle amounts to: 'Yours hearts failing - but don't worry we found you a kidney.'

But please, give me an example? When in NFL history has a new OC made the difference to turn around a franchise, and been able to make up for a seemingly mediocre defensive minded head coach and struggling veteran QB who could not even win a playoff games before?

Without really checking, Klint's previous stop in Santa Clara? He wasn't OC there, of course. And why he was considered and hired here. We'll see how things go in the beginning.

Without really checking, Klint's previous stop in Santa Clara? He wasn't OC there, of course. And why he was considered and hired here. We'll see how things go in the beginning.