So, if Davis, Jordan, Mathieu, and Lattimore all decline due to aging, the defensive talent pool here could take a nose dive if younger players don't develop to replace them.

Do you have any documentation that Allen had 'no say' on the Raiders roster rather than the typical amount of input most non-GM head coaches have? Al Davis was clearly a strong headed GM but I don't know that his son was known as such. Reggie McKenzie was the GM and picked DA to work together.

Also, did DA really control the roster that made the Saints defense good recently? It seems like our core was acquired under Payton and Loomis. It seems like DA probably had more control of the 2012-2014 Raiders rosters than he had of the Saints defensive core that was built from 2017-2021 before he took over, and its unclear long term if his influence will build a winner or not. Recent defensive draft picks and free agents have been a mixed bag, the core predating DA's head coaching tenure has been the strength. If we keep drafting players like Turner and Foskey, we might be wanting to phone Mark Davis for better advice.

The problem for Kubiak is even if he is the next Martz, Carr and DA have a combined like 15 years in the NFL with no playoff wins, and Kubiak had the least of the the 3 positions and needs to to elevate them both from not close no cigar kick rocks to a ring.

I never said that Allen had anything to do with acquiring the Saints defensive talent.

As for Demario and Mathieu, both are coming off banner years and I see no reason why they suddenly hit some imagined wall that you seem to wish exists to tarnish anything that has to do with your hated Loomis. Hopefully both Jordan and Lattimore rebound from injuries.

What is imagined is your world view where I am the only one sports fan in the world who thinks aging into the mid 30's and 40's is a risk of declined athletic performance. In the real world we actually live in the vast majority of sports fans agree that decline with aging becomes an increasing risk for athletes from age 30 to 40+. Some sports fans always feel their favorite players on their team still have a couple years in the tank before the decline hits, but we all know its coming. And in reality, we all know that aging can hit suddenly too. Mike Tyson was the invincible until he couldn't beat Buster Douglas. Peyton Manning was the biggest name in the NFL until Brock Osweiler took his job. Cameron Jordan went from averaging about 10 sacks a year against the like of Tom Brady and Matt Ryan to managing only 2 sacks against perhaps the weakest slate of offensive matchups ever faced by a defense. But oh thats right, in hindsight the Saints later revealed Jordan had a twisted ankle and will be 100% again next year. The thing is, Mike Tyson never recovered from his twisted ankle. Peyton Manning never recovered from his twisted ankle. Because sometimes when you are older, that twisted ankle is actually father time, and when it heals, father time takes the form of a worse injury or a lost step too many. Thats just reality. Age is no friend of athletic performance.

If you look at the stats below, Davis is the oldest active linebacker in the NFL. Why might I expect that he COULD decline or soon retire. Because every single other linebacker in the entire NFL even a day older than him already has. But I guess I am 'imagining' the site pro football reference.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...ay=1&year=1990

I believe even Loomis has joked in interviews that Davis doesn't think he is getting older but he is and the team realized that. We can all hope Davis has another great year but I think realistically every sober minded person realizes he could easily decline this year, and the Saints are paying about half price for his skills knowing its basically a coin flip. Demario Davis has played at a similar level to Fred Warner and Roquan Smith, yet they make $18-20 million a year and Davis just signed for $17 million for two years. I don't think he or his agent are in the charity business, I think everyone understands there is a strong chance that when you pay for 2 years for the price of 1 on a player that age, you are building a significant probability of decline into the contract. One was you look at it is if you get 2 years for the price of one, you could get lucky and the Davis could continue to play at the same level and you double your money, but also there could be a 1/3 chance of extreme decline by 2024 and a 2/3 chance of extreme decline by 2025 so you get 2/3 value in 2024 and 1/3 value in 2025 and thats why you are getting 2 years for the price of 1.

Kubiak isn't a 'sure fire' solution to the offense. I like what I've read about him in Saints camp specifically. A fresh approach is necessary and from all accounts the players have welcomed the changes with open arms. That in itself may be enough to get us over .600

Year Position Record Playoff record

2023 San Francisco 49ers Offensive Passing Game Specialist 12-5-0 2-1
2022 Denver Broncos Offensive Pass Game Coordinator / Quarterbacks Coach 5-12-0 0-0
2021 Minnesota Vikings Offensive Coordinator 8-9-0 0-0
2020 Minnesota Vikings Quarterbacks Coach 7-9-0 0-0
2019 Minnesota Vikings Quarterbacks Coach 10-6-0 1-1
2018 Denver Broncos Quarterbacks Coach / Offensive Assistant Coach 6-10-0 0-0
2017 Denver Broncos Quarterbacks Coach / Offensive Assistant Coach 5-11-0 0-0
2016 Denver Broncos Quarterbacks Coach / Offensive Assistant Coach 9-7-0 0-0
2014 Minnesota Vikings Assistant Wide Receivers Coach / Quality Control Coach 7-9-0 0-0
2013 Minnesota Vikings Offensive Quality Control Coach 5-10-1 0-0

Kubiak isn't a 'sure fire' solution to the offense. I like what I've read about him in Saints camp specifically. A fresh approach is necessary and from all accounts the players have welcomed the changes with open arms. That in itself may be enough to get us over .600

Year Position Record Playoff record

2023 San Francisco 49ers Offensive Passing Game Specialist 12-5-0 2-1
2022 Denver Broncos Offensive Pass Game Coordinator / Quarterbacks Coach 5-12-0 0-0
2021 Minnesota Vikings Offensive Coordinator 8-9-0 0-0
2020 Minnesota Vikings Quarterbacks Coach 7-9-0 0-0
2019 Minnesota Vikings Quarterbacks Coach 10-6-0 1-1
2018 Denver Broncos Quarterbacks Coach / Offensive Assistant Coach 6-10-0 0-0
2017 Denver Broncos Quarterbacks Coach / Offensive Assistant Coach 5-11-0 0-0
2016 Denver Broncos Quarterbacks Coach / Offensive Assistant Coach 9-7-0 0-0
2014 Minnesota Vikings Assistant Wide Receivers Coach / Quality Control Coach 7-9-0 0-0
2013 Minnesota Vikings Offensive Quality Control Coach 5-10-1 0-0

At this point anything is a step up from Carmichael and crew. Nothing is sure fire, even the doom and gloom preached by Bako and gang. At least this offensive scheme has a solid pedigree of success behind it.

Sean Payton, a super bowl win, several deep playoff runs, and numerous records would have seemed a MORE solid pedigree for Carmichael. Josh McDaniels had an excellent pedigree. Carmichael had a better pedigree than Carr or DA. But its still possible Carmichael was the biggest big problem and possible as a younger coach Kubiak will bring solutions. But I would say its more likely to have a minimal effect. First problem is Carmichael was probably not the biggest problem. Second problem Kubiak is an unknown commodity with mixed results. Essentially I view it more like when the Falcons switched from Matt Ryan to Mariota / Ridder. No guarantee the replacement would be better, in the end it was a total wash, and it could have been worse, but they were never winning a ring with Matt Ryan anyway so the worst case scenario was a higher draft pick.

Sean Payton, a super bowl win, several deep playoff runs, and numerous records would have seemed a MORE solid pedigree for Carmichael. Josh McDaniels had an excellent pedigree. Carmichael had a better pedigree than Carr or DA. But its still possible Carmichael was the biggest big problem and possible as a younger coach Kubiak will bring solutions. But I would say its more likely to have a minimal effect. First problem is Carmichael was probably not the biggest problem. Second problem Kubiak is an unknown commodity with mixed results. Essentially I view it more like when the Falcons switched from Matt Ryan to Mariota / Ridder. No guarantee the replacement would be better, in the end it was a total wash, and it could have been worse, but they were never winning a ring with Matt Ryan anyway so the worst case scenario was a higher draft pick.