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Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

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Old 08-05-2024, 03:11 PM   #271
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Old 08-05-2024, 03:13 PM   #272
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

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Old 08-05-2024, 03:17 PM   #273
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

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Old 08-05-2024, 03:32 PM   #274
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
Did not practice:

Marshon Lattimore hip flexor
Demario Davis hamstring
Kendre Miller hamstring
Rashid Shaheed hamstring
Pete Werner shoulder
Payton Turner toe
Nathan Shepard toe
Paulson Adebo has some groin tightness. Didn’t do team drills today.
Injuries are often predictable.

Lattimore and Davis are old for their positions. A higher chance of even small injuries proving to be nagging and following one after another is just the reality of their positions at their ages in the NFL.

Rasheed Shaheed was available as an UDFA partly due to concerns about his being undersized and college injury history missing a year with a torn ACL. He has been prone to injuries in the pros also. He is an exciting player and great value but the injuries come with the territory.

Payton Turner is glass. Some players just can't adjust to the physicality and workout regimens of the pro game and their bodies break down. Kendre Miller may prove to be the same.

The Saints likely have issues with strength and conditioning as well as medical staff. However, many of these injuries are predictable and result from the calculated risks of the front office more than anything else. There are many teams that would have tried to get ahead of the injury risk by moving on from players like Lattimore and Davis early. Others would have gladly gave up trade fodder or comp picks and big contracts to get those players before these issues arose, or in Lattimore's case a year or two ago. The Rams for example cut Bobby Wagner last offseason, and have made a habit of trading away corners as they age or suffer injury, such as Jalen Ramsey or Marcus Peters. Its a risk either way, as such players have great ability so you lose if they stay health and continue to contribute and your younger replacement doesn't, but you also lose if you hold onto the player too long and pay them $20 million to limp around the field. Regardless, since the Saints tend toward the strategy of holding onto these players, the Saints will tend to lose in the way of paying them to limp around the field, rather than risk watching them excel elsewhere if they stay healthy. Personally, I would have kept Davis since he agreed to a team friendly deal that the Wagner's and Lattimore's likely refused, and cut Lattimore if nobody would offer trade value for his 50% availability. I do not know the exact terms of Lattimore's deal as to whether he could still be cut.

Other teams have players like Turner and Miller who they had high hopes for as draft picks, but have been plagues by injury. Some teams would have traded Turner by now, but any team could have a Miller. We live with the choices we make. If we had traded Turner we would have risked another Rob Ninkovich, but on the other hand we have not regretted cutting loose Davenport so you have to pick a risk. We usually pick injury risk.

If there is a downside to the 49ers system we may be planning to emulate, it is that lots of motion and targeting the middle of the field can produce even more injuries. How will this work with the oldest roster in the league and bias to signing players from the injury refurb bargain bin and never giving up on them? We will find out. We may need more depth of young players to sustain this system, which are starting to address by not trading up in the first round and not spending all our money on one blockbuster acquisition in free agency.

Injuries happen randomly, so does cancer. But both are also influenced by choices, risk factors are definitely known, and avoiding them won't guarantee safety, but ignoring them will raise risk. If you had to guess which would be the most injured team, it would be reasonable to guess that it might be the oldest team, which also seeks out injury reclamation projects in the draft. We are still living with the ghost of what gamblers call beginners luck with Drew Brees. The first big trip to Vegas Mickey Loomis went straight to the craps table and threw all his chips down on #9. He won big. But it didnt teach him caution, and in the long run for every Brees we are due a lot of Cameron Merediths.
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Old 08-05-2024, 04:09 PM   #275
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

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Old 08-05-2024, 04:59 PM   #276
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

I think the major risk factor is called "playing professional football".

Turner was back to practice today so let's not go cutting anyone just yet...
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Old 08-05-2024, 06:08 PM   #277
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
I think the major risk factor is called "playing professional football".

Turner was back to practice today so let's not go cutting anyone just yet...
This is like defending a drunk driver by saying the major risk factor is driving. As car insurance companies know, anyone can get in an accident but past history is a strong indicator.
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Old 08-05-2024, 07:17 PM   #278
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
This is like defending a drunk driver by saying the major risk factor is driving. As car insurance companies know, anyone can get in an accident but past history is a strong indicator.
Where do you come up with this stupid ****? Show us solid numbers proving there are substantially more injuries at any period of the NFL calendar year by the Saints than your average NFL franchise.

For anyone aware of the past history of the NFL they would know that injuries are a routine part of the game, be it offseason, preseason, regular season, or God forbid the postseason.
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Old 08-05-2024, 07:29 PM   #279
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Where do you come up with this stupid ****? Show us solid numbers proving there are substantially more injuries at any period of the NFL calendar year by the Saints than your average NFL franchise.

For anyone aware of the past history of the NFL they would know that injuries are a routine part of the game, be it offseason, preseason, regular season, or God forbid the postseason.
For anyone aware of the past and more recent history of certain masochistic fans who may be shortsighted by fogged up rose colored glasses, we just seem to conveniently use “injuries” as an excuse to have consistent lackluster seasons, when in fact, we’re simply lackluster AND injury-prone… again.
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Old 08-05-2024, 07:30 PM   #280
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Re: Official 2024 Training Camp Discussion

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Injuries are often predictable.

Lattimore and Davis are old for their positions. A higher chance of even small injuries proving to be nagging and following one after another is just the reality of their positions at their ages in the NFL.

Rasheed Shaheed was available as an UDFA partly due to concerns about his being undersized and college injury history missing a year with a torn ACL. He has been prone to injuries in the pros also. He is an exciting player and great value but the injuries come with the territory.

Payton Turner is glass. Some players just can't adjust to the physicality and workout regimens of the pro game and their bodies break down. Kendre Miller may prove to be the same.

The Saints likely have issues with strength and conditioning as well as medical staff. However, many of these injuries are predictable and result from the calculated risks of the front office more than anything else. There are many teams that would have tried to get ahead of the injury risk by moving on from players like Lattimore and Davis early. Others would have gladly gave up trade fodder or comp picks and big contracts to get those players before these issues arose, or in Lattimore's case a year or two ago. The Rams for example cut Bobby Wagner last offseason, and have made a habit of trading away corners as they age or suffer injury, such as Jalen Ramsey or Marcus Peters. Its a risk either way, as such players have great ability so you lose if they stay health and continue to contribute and your younger replacement doesn't, but you also lose if you hold onto the player too long and pay them $20 million to limp around the field. Regardless, since the Saints tend toward the strategy of holding onto these players, the Saints will tend to lose in the way of paying them to limp around the field, rather than risk watching them excel elsewhere if they stay healthy. Personally, I would have kept Davis since he agreed to a team friendly deal that the Wagner's and Lattimore's likely refused, and cut Lattimore if nobody would offer trade value for his 50% availability. I do not know the exact terms of Lattimore's deal as to whether he could still be cut.

Other teams have players like Turner and Miller who they had high hopes for as draft picks, but have been plagues by injury. Some teams would have traded Turner by now, but any team could have a Miller. We live with the choices we make. If we had traded Turner we would have risked another Rob Ninkovich, but on the other hand we have not regretted cutting loose Davenport so you have to pick a risk. We usually pick injury risk.

If there is a downside to the 49ers system we may be planning to emulate, it is that lots of motion and targeting the middle of the field can produce even more injuries. How will this work with the oldest roster in the league and bias to signing players from the injury refurb bargain bin and never giving up on them? We will find out. We may need more depth of young players to sustain this system, which are starting to address by not trading up in the first round and not spending all our money on one blockbuster acquisition in free agency.

Injuries happen randomly, so does cancer. But both are also influenced by choices, risk factors are definitely known, and avoiding them won't guarantee safety, but ignoring them will raise risk. If you had to guess which would be the most injured team, it would be reasonable to guess that it might be the oldest team, which also seeks out injury reclamation projects in the draft. We are still living with the ghost of what gamblers call beginners luck with Drew Brees. The first big trip to Vegas Mickey Loomis went straight to the craps table and threw all his chips down on #9. He won big. But it didnt teach him caution, and in the long run for every Brees we are due a lot of Cameron Merediths.
Salient points.
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