Looks like it could happen?

gandhi1007 · 02-21-2006, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs

....load up on draft picks loaded with speed

Yeah, that's worked out well for us the last few drafts.

FatiusJeebs · 02-21-2006, 03:30 PM

Hey ghandi. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not (which I don't mind either way..;0) I believe in the Jimmy Johnson model. When he was hired to coach the Cowboys the first thing he did was stock up his defense with speed. Did it work? I remember that year even though we had the Dome Patrol defense it was JJ's defense that was ranked number one in the league. That's right a no-name defense loaded with extremely fast rookies and FA's. Well...after a few years we all saw what the Cowboy's did throughout the 90's. We need picks, picks, and more picks, so we can acquire, speed, speed, and yes....MORE SPEED!

gandhi1007 · 02-21-2006, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs

Hey ghandi. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not (which I don't mind either way..;0) I believe in the Jimmy Johnson model. When he was hired to coach the Cowboys the first thing he did was stock up his defense with speed. Did it work? I remember that year even though we had the Dome Patrol defense it was JJ's defense that was ranked number one in the league. That's right a no-name defense loaded with extremely fast rookies and FA's. Well...after a few years we all saw what the Cowboy's did throughout the 90's. We need picks, picks, and more picks, so we can acquire, speed, speed, and yes....MORE SPEED!

Yes, I must admit I was being sarcastic. LOL. You see, we did this same thing under Haslett the last few years in both the draft & free agency: Courtney Watson, Tebucky Jones, etc... The only problem: None of these guys can tackle or cover. You have to have guys who read the field well, tackle solidly, & cover well. Speed, though an added bonus, is not always the answer. Here are some examples: Ty Law- great cover corner, but not a blazer as opposed to some other CB's. Tedy Bruschi- great LB w/ great field vision & solid tackling-not that fast. Rodney Harrison- Again, not that fast, but great in coverage & a solid tackler. These three guys also played on the same team that won 3 Super Bowls. The Patriots saw this method worked. So should we. Though speed has become the main focus of the league, it doesn't necessarily help you win championships. Here's another fact: The best receiver to ever play the game, Jerry Rice, was considered slow by NFL standards (4.69 forty time). I don't even have to say how his career worked out.

P.S.- That Cowboys team you mentioned weren't all no-namers. The year they were #1, there were future Hall of Famers on that team by the names of Ken Norton, Jr. & "Prime Time" Deion Sanders.

FatiusJeebs · 02-21-2006, 04:39 PM

Ghandi... I see your point.....and according to your point of view then the problem Haslett did have was not the players but it was the coaching. It takes a good coach to teach a fast player how to read the field better.
Last note....Deion was still a Falcon that year and Ken Norton was only in his second year(I think...I know he was still very young during that year.) The key word is FUTURE Hall of Famer. If payton has hired a good group...then I don't see why we can't acheieve the same results that the Cowboys of the 90's did. SPEEEEEEEEED! I'm out...;0)

AllSaints · 02-21-2006, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Originally Posted by AllSaints

Originally Posted by jrmllb

Kitna aint the answer...AB isnt either

Its Matt Leinart............

What's the question?

Quick quiz: Who is the last Top-3 QB pick to lead their team to a winning record as a starter in their rookie season?

Big Ben was a #11 pick. Look elsewhere.

SFIAH

I never said that he would be like big ben .............. damn............
but i do think we will be in the running for the playoffs........ maybe.........

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-22-2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by AllSaints

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Originally Posted by AllSaints

Originally Posted by jrmllb

Kitna aint the answer...AB isnt either

Its Matt Leinart............

What's the question?

Quick quiz: Who is the last Top-3 QB pick to lead their team to a winning record as a starter in their rookie season?

Big Ben was a #11 pick. Look elsewhere.

SFIAH

I never said that he would be like big ben .............. damn............

Leinart has to be your answer to some question. I'm just trying to figure out what the question is?

Please explain how Leinart is going to bring as much value to the Saints as trading down for multiple, and presumably productive picks.

I just want to see what more Leinart is other than the safe conservative pick that everyone expects the Saints to make.

but i do think we will be in the running for the playoffs........ maybe.........

Well then we're back to my original question: what top 3 rookie QB had a winning record in their rookie season. And in order for it to be meaningful let's limit the entries to QBs who started a minimum of 8 games.

mjf150 · 02-22-2006, 05:32 PM

How many "Starting QB's" have left one team and become successful in their first year with another?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-22-2006, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by mjf150

How many "Starting QB's" have left one team and become successful in their first year with another?

How many QBs have been marginal under on coaching regime and flourished under a successor?

Lots of questions. I'm not too sure there are any sure answers beyond the fact that rookie QBs at the very top of draft are are rarely successful early in their careers. I know quite well that's due to the team that the QB is drafted to.

Even if Leinart is the guy, it's going to be 2-3 years before his talent comes to bear. So the question is that potential talent worth picking?

SFIAH

gandhi1007 · 02-22-2006, 07:40 PM

There have been some QB's picked in the top of their perspective draft classes that did well in their first years. Do the names Montana, Elway, or Marino ring any bells? If I'm not mistaken, Marino took the Dolphins to the Super Bowl in his first season. Though most take a season or two before becoming stars, I think Leinart will upgrade the QB position for us as a rookie simply by playing smarter than what Brooks has. Not to mention, this guy knows how to lead his receivers & can actually learn an entire playbook.

FanNJ · 02-22-2006, 07:47 PM

Playbook was not cut...Verbage was cut. Just cause the man can't speak right or look at film is no reason to poke fun.

02-21-2006, 02:40 PM	#71
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs ....load up on draft picks loaded with speed Yeah, that's worked out well for us the last few drafts.

02-21-2006, 03:30 PM	#72
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Hey ghandi. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not (which I don't mind either way..;0) I believe in the Jimmy Johnson model. When he was hired to coach the Cowboys the first thing he did was stock up his defense with speed. Did it work? I remember that year even though we had the Dome Patrol defense it was JJ's defense that was ranked number one in the league. That's right a no-name defense loaded with extremely fast rookies and FA's. Well...after a few years we all saw what the Cowboy's did throughout the 90's. We need picks, picks, and more picks, so we can acquire, speed, speed, and yes....MORE SPEED!
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	BINGO!!

02-21-2006, 03:59 PM	#73
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs Hey ghandi. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not (which I don't mind either way..;0) I believe in the Jimmy Johnson model. When he was hired to coach the Cowboys the first thing he did was stock up his defense with speed. Did it work? I remember that year even though we had the Dome Patrol defense it was JJ's defense that was ranked number one in the league. That's right a no-name defense loaded with extremely fast rookies and FA's. Well...after a few years we all saw what the Cowboy's did throughout the 90's. We need picks, picks, and more picks, so we can acquire, speed, speed, and yes....MORE SPEED! Yes, I must admit I was being sarcastic. LOL. You see, we did this same thing under Haslett the last few years in both the draft & free agency: Courtney Watson, Tebucky Jones, etc... The only problem: None of these guys can tackle or cover. You have to have guys who read the field well, tackle solidly, & cover well. Speed, though an added bonus, is not always the answer. Here are some examples: Ty Law- great cover corner, but not a blazer as opposed to some other CB's. Tedy Bruschi- great LB w/ great field vision & solid tackling-not that fast. Rodney Harrison- Again, not that fast, but great in coverage & a solid tackler. These three guys also played on the same team that won 3 Super Bowls. The Patriots saw this method worked. So should we. Though speed has become the main focus of the league, it doesn't necessarily help you win championships. Here's another fact: The best receiver to ever play the game, Jerry Rice, was considered slow by NFL standards (4.69 forty time). I don't even have to say how his career worked out. P.S.- That Cowboys team you mentioned weren't all no-namers. The year they were #1, there were future Hall of Famers on that team by the names of Ken Norton, Jr. & "Prime Time" Deion Sanders.
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

02-21-2006, 04:39 PM	#74
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Ghandi... I see your point.....and according to your point of view then the problem Haslett did have was not the players but it was the coaching. It takes a good coach to teach a fast player how to read the field better. Last note....Deion was still a Falcon that year and Ken Norton was only in his second year(I think...I know he was still very young during that year.) The key word is FUTURE Hall of Famer. If payton has hired a good group...then I don't see why we can't acheieve the same results that the Cowboys of the 90's did. SPEEEEEEEEED! I'm out...;0)
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	BINGO!!

02-21-2006, 07:52 PM	#75
AllSaints Breakin Records Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Deville, Louisiana Posts: 2,167	Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Originally Posted by AllSaints Originally Posted by jrmllb Kitna aint the answer...AB isnt either Its Matt Leinart............ What's the question? Quick quiz: Who is the last Top-3 QB pick to lead their team to a winning record as a starter in their rookie season? Big Ben was a #11 pick. Look elsewhere. SFIAH I never said that he would be like big ben .............. damn............ but i do think we will be in the running for the playoffs........ maybe.........

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02-22-2006, 04:19 PM	#76
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Originally Posted by AllSaints Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Originally Posted by AllSaints Originally Posted by jrmllb Kitna aint the answer...AB isnt either Its Matt Leinart............ What's the question? Quick quiz: Who is the last Top-3 QB pick to lead their team to a winning record as a starter in their rookie season? Big Ben was a #11 pick. Look elsewhere. SFIAH I never said that he would be like big ben .............. damn............ Leinart has to be your answer to some question. I'm just trying to figure out what the question is? Please explain how Leinart is going to bring as much value to the Saints as trading down for multiple, and presumably productive picks. I just want to see what more Leinart is other than the safe conservative pick that everyone expects the Saints to make. but i do think we will be in the running for the playoffs........ maybe......... Well then we're back to my original question: what top 3 rookie QB had a winning record in their rookie season. And in order for it to be meaningful let's limit the entries to QBs who started a minimum of 8 games.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-22-2006, 05:32 PM	#77
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 747	How many "Starting QB's" have left one team and become successful in their first year with another?
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 747

02-22-2006, 06:01 PM	#78
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Originally Posted by mjf150 How many "Starting QB's" have left one team and become successful in their first year with another? How many QBs have been marginal under on coaching regime and flourished under a successor? Lots of questions. I'm not too sure there are any sure answers beyond the fact that rookie QBs at the very top of draft are are rarely successful early in their careers. I know quite well that's due to the team that the QB is drafted to. Even if Leinart is the guy, it's going to be 2-3 years before his talent comes to bear. So the question is that potential talent worth picking? SFIAH

02-22-2006, 07:40 PM	#79
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	There have been some QB's picked in the top of their perspective draft classes that did well in their first years. Do the names Montana, Elway, or Marino ring any bells? If I'm not mistaken, Marino took the Dolphins to the Super Bowl in his first season. Though most take a season or two before becoming stars, I think Leinart will upgrade the QB position for us as a rookie simply by playing smarter than what Brooks has. Not to mention, this guy knows how to lead his receivers & can actually learn an entire playbook.

02-22-2006, 07:47 PM	#80
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	Playbook was not cut...Verbage was cut. Just cause the man can't speak right or look at film is no reason to poke fun.
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324