Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?

Tobias-Reiper · 08-26-2007, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Brann

Torturing and killing animals are the typical hallmark of a serial killer in training. Personally, I just think that Vick is a disturbed individual who isn't bright enough to understand the import of his actions. I don't think he can be rehabilitated and I don't think he deserves to play in the NFL ever again. It's a privilege and not a right. I hate this sense of entitlement people have nowadays.

OK, now you are taking it a little too far. It is true that torturing animals is a common trait among serial killers, but a) this is usually done in secrecy, and b) it extends to any animal, not just dogs. I can tell you this is a different emotion to pitting animals to fight.

ScottF · 08-26-2007, 10:20 AM

I keeping reading that being in the NFL is 'a privilege, not a right'.

It is neither. If you have the talent and work hard, you make it, just like any other job.

If Vick can still play in 2009, some team will sign him. Probably a team like Oakland or Dallas, but we all know he will get another chance to play.

saintfan · 08-26-2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

I keeping reading that being in the NFL is 'a privilege, not a right'.

It is neither. If you have the talent and work hard, you make it, just like any other job.

If Vick can still play in 2009, some team will sign him. Probably a team like Oakland or Dallas, but we all know he will get another chance to play.

So long as agree we that it's not a 'right', as some posters and the NAACP will have us believe. And I'm not so sure Oakland or Dallas (especially Dallas) would sign this evil and twisted man. I lot will depend on what he does between now and then. We'll see.

And I'll tell you this. If there is a team crazy enough to do this - Vick was never a good QB anyway - can you imagine the backlash? I think it's far from a given that some team will give him another shot.

JOESAM2002 · 08-26-2007, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

So long as agree we that it's not a 'right', as some posters and the NAACP will have us believe. And I'm not so sure Oakland or Dallas (especially Dallas) would sign this evil and twisted man. I lot will depend on what he does between now and then. We'll see.

And I'll tell you this. If there is a team crazy enough to do this - Vick was never a good QB anyway - can you imagine the backlash? I think it's far from a given that some team will give him another shot.

I catagoricly concur. That would be abig mistake money wise. Sponsers and fans both would be up in arms. I can't see any team wanting to take that kind of loss. We all know it's all about the bucks.

P.S. Damn I wish I could spell. Some of my posts would be funny as hell if I could. LOL

ScottF · 08-26-2007, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

So long as agree we that it's not a 'right', as some posters and the NAACP will have us believe. And I'm not so sure Oakland or Dallas (especially Dallas) would sign this evil and twisted man. I lot will depend on what he does between now and then. We'll see.

And I'll tell you this. If there is a team crazy enough to do this - Vick was never a good QB anyway - can you imagine the backlash? I think it's far from a given that some team will give him another shot.

Dallas has never been afraid to keep or go after controversial players: Longley, Hollywood Henderson, Deion, TO- but you do make a good point about backlash. No conservative city would take him, but who knows with the Niners, Skins, Raiders, Dolphins, etc.

As for his talent as a QB, I did and still believe Vick is a phenomenal talent.
He has been called a coach-killer, and unable to read a D. The fact is, with a guy like this you build your game plan around him, you don't have him run your game plan (which obviously he couldn't do)
Look at what the Longhorns, and then Titans, did with Young. Knapp (the Falcons OC) couldn't or wouldn't get away from the west coast offense even though there were two glaring problems: Vick couldn't exexcute it, and his receivers have been the worst in the league for 3 years now. Add a weak, Wayne Gandy-led O-line, and suddenly you're 8-8 again.

In the world of what-ifs, who knows where Vick would be right now if he ever had parental guidance, a mentor, or decent coach.
But, we live in the real world and so must he. Tomorrow at his hearing I hope he gets 24+ months and the max fine.

Brann · 08-26-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

OK, now you are taking it a little too far. It is true that torturing animals is a common trait among serial killers, but a) this is usually done in secrecy, and b) it extends to any animal, not just dogs. I can tell you this is a different emotion to pitting animals to fight.

Try reading my whole post instead of singling out the first line.

hagan714 · 08-26-2007, 04:59 PM

For the love of God let this thread die! just like mike's carrer

JOESAM2002 · 08-26-2007, 05:11 PM

It is getting pretty old isn't it?

saintfan · 08-26-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Dallas has never been afraid to keep or go after controversial players: Longley, Hollywood Henderson, Deion, TO- but you do make a good point about backlash. No conservative city would take him, but who knows with the Niners, Skins, Raiders, Dolphins, etc.

As for his talent as a QB, I did and still believe Vick is a phenomenal talent.
He has been called a coach-killer, and unable to read a D. The fact is, with a guy like this you build your game plan around him, you don't have him run your game plan (which obviously he couldn't do)
Look at what the Longhorns, and then Titans, did with Young. Knapp (the Falcons OC) couldn't or wouldn't get away from the west coast offense even though there were two glaring problems: Vick couldn't exexcute it, and his receivers have been the worst in the league for 3 years now. Add a weak, Wayne Gandy-led O-line, and suddenly you're 8-8 again.

In the world of what-ifs, who knows where Vick would be right now if he ever had parental guidance, a mentor, or decent coach.
But, we live in the real world and so must he. Tomorrow at his hearing I hope he gets 24+ months and the max fine.

Longly, Henderson, Deion, TO: These are/were controversial players to be certain, but none of them match the wickedness and twisted soul of Vick.

I'm not saying Vick played with the 'best' players, but I AM saying it doesn't matter much. Vick was his O-Line's worst nightmare. Same for his WR. He could not execute a planned play, was too quick to run, had zero accuracy, etc, etc. He was exciting to watch because of the 'sandlot element', but that's about it.

I recall a real rocket scientist that used to post here say about Vick, "He just wins". Well that was crap then and it's crap now...and now, hopefully, he'll never play in the NFL again and we can have this discussion about Young in Tennessee. They are the same player after all...cept that Young is probably a better passer.

Tobias-Reiper · 08-26-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Brann

Try reading my whole post instead of singling out the first line.

I read your whole post. So you are saying that the first sentence has nothing to do with the rest of the paragraph? What's the purpose of pointing that out then? As a bad conmparison.

Anyway, Joe and Hagan are right.

08-26-2007, 07:01 AM	#41
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by Brann Torturing and killing animals are the typical hallmark of a serial killer in training. Personally, I just think that Vick is a disturbed individual who isn't bright enough to understand the import of his actions. I don't think he can be rehabilitated and I don't think he deserves to play in the NFL ever again. It's a privilege and not a right. I hate this sense of entitlement people have nowadays. OK, now you are taking it a little too far. It is true that torturing animals is a common trait among serial killers, but a) this is usually done in secrecy, and b) it extends to any animal, not just dogs. I can tell you this is a different emotion to pitting animals to fight.

08-26-2007, 10:20 AM	#42
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? I keeping reading that being in the NFL is 'a privilege, not a right'. It is neither. If you have the talent and work hard, you make it, just like any other job. If Vick can still play in 2009, some team will sign him. Probably a team like Oakland or Dallas, but we all know he will get another chance to play.

08-26-2007, 10:46 AM	#43
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by ScottF I keeping reading that being in the NFL is 'a privilege, not a right'. It is neither. If you have the talent and work hard, you make it, just like any other job. If Vick can still play in 2009, some team will sign him. Probably a team like Oakland or Dallas, but we all know he will get another chance to play. So long as agree we that it's not a 'right', as some posters and the NAACP will have us believe. And I'm not so sure Oakland or Dallas (especially Dallas) would sign this evil and twisted man. I lot will depend on what he does between now and then. We'll see. And I'll tell you this. If there is a team crazy enough to do this - Vick was never a good QB anyway - can you imagine the backlash? I think it's far from a given that some team will give him another shot.

08-26-2007, 01:27 PM	#44
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by saintfan So long as agree we that it's not a 'right', as some posters and the NAACP will have us believe. And I'm not so sure Oakland or Dallas (especially Dallas) would sign this evil and twisted man. I lot will depend on what he does between now and then. We'll see. And I'll tell you this. If there is a team crazy enough to do this - Vick was never a good QB anyway - can you imagine the backlash? I think it's far from a given that some team will give him another shot. I catagoricly concur. That would be abig mistake money wise. Sponsers and fans both would be up in arms. I can't see any team wanting to take that kind of loss. We all know it's all about the bucks. P.S. Damn I wish I could spell. Some of my posts would be funny as hell if I could. LOL

08-26-2007, 02:52 PM	#45
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by saintfan So long as agree we that it's not a 'right', as some posters and the NAACP will have us believe. And I'm not so sure Oakland or Dallas (especially Dallas) would sign this evil and twisted man. I lot will depend on what he does between now and then. We'll see. And I'll tell you this. If there is a team crazy enough to do this - Vick was never a good QB anyway - can you imagine the backlash? I think it's far from a given that some team will give him another shot. Dallas has never been afraid to keep or go after controversial players: Longley, Hollywood Henderson, Deion, TO- but you do make a good point about backlash. No conservative city would take him, but who knows with the Niners, Skins, Raiders, Dolphins, etc. As for his talent as a QB, I did and still believe Vick is a phenomenal talent. He has been called a coach-killer, and unable to read a D. The fact is, with a guy like this you build your game plan around him, you don't have him run your game plan (which obviously he couldn't do) Look at what the Longhorns, and then Titans, did with Young. Knapp (the Falcons OC) couldn't or wouldn't get away from the west coast offense even though there were two glaring problems: Vick couldn't exexcute it, and his receivers have been the worst in the league for 3 years now. Add a weak, Wayne Gandy-led O-line, and suddenly you're 8-8 again. In the world of what-ifs, who knows where Vick would be right now if he ever had parental guidance, a mentor, or decent coach. But, we live in the real world and so must he. Tomorrow at his hearing I hope he gets 24+ months and the max fine.

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08-26-2007, 03:45 PM	#46
Brann Ill-tempered Texan Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pascagoula, MS Posts: 228	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper OK, now you are taking it a little too far. It is true that torturing animals is a common trait among serial killers, but a) this is usually done in secrecy, and b) it extends to any animal, not just dogs. I can tell you this is a different emotion to pitting animals to fight. Try reading my whole post instead of singling out the first line.

08-26-2007, 04:59 PM	#47
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? For the love of God let this thread die! just like mike's carrer

08-26-2007, 05:11 PM	#48
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? It is getting pretty old isn't it?

08-26-2007, 07:25 PM	#49
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by ScottF Dallas has never been afraid to keep or go after controversial players: Longley, Hollywood Henderson, Deion, TO- but you do make a good point about backlash. No conservative city would take him, but who knows with the Niners, Skins, Raiders, Dolphins, etc. As for his talent as a QB, I did and still believe Vick is a phenomenal talent. He has been called a coach-killer, and unable to read a D. The fact is, with a guy like this you build your game plan around him, you don't have him run your game plan (which obviously he couldn't do) Look at what the Longhorns, and then Titans, did with Young. Knapp (the Falcons OC) couldn't or wouldn't get away from the west coast offense even though there were two glaring problems: Vick couldn't exexcute it, and his receivers have been the worst in the league for 3 years now. Add a weak, Wayne Gandy-led O-line, and suddenly you're 8-8 again. In the world of what-ifs, who knows where Vick would be right now if he ever had parental guidance, a mentor, or decent coach. But, we live in the real world and so must he. Tomorrow at his hearing I hope he gets 24+ months and the max fine. Longly, Henderson, Deion, TO: These are/were controversial players to be certain, but none of them match the wickedness and twisted soul of Vick. I'm not saying Vick played with the 'best' players, but I AM saying it doesn't matter much. Vick was his O-Line's worst nightmare. Same for his WR. He could not execute a planned play, was too quick to run, had zero accuracy, etc, etc. He was exciting to watch because of the 'sandlot element', but that's about it. I recall a real rocket scientist that used to post here say about Vick, "He just wins". Well that was crap then and it's crap now...and now, hopefully, he'll never play in the NFL again and we can have this discussion about Young in Tennessee. They are the same player after all...cept that Young is probably a better passer.