Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

All I was originally trying to express that with so much hype about him every game, I was expecting more production. He averaged 5 or 6 tackles per game last season. You'll have to tell me if that is good b/c I don't know comparatively. Hype goes a long way and I wonder whether he'd have won all of those awards had the team not won the championship. I never said he wasn't a good player at LSU.

Granted, he could very well be the best D player in the draft. That doesn't translate into sure thing. Review the ESPN article about the 50 biggest busts. Many of those were viewed with equal regard BEFORE the draft.

Hahaha! Nice try, but I moved to Virginia two weeks ago from Louisiana ...the Hokies are not my home team. Besides, this has nothing at all to do with what college team I root for as much as it is about my concern of my favorite NFL team making a deal to move up and get him when I believe that every player is a bust risk. So many people on here were writing good things about moving up b/c he is a sure thing that are clearly linked to their love of LSU (and Dorsey) that I wanted to point out that there are concerns about risk here.

My glasses are black & gold and I am not going to ignore the risks just because he helped LSU win a championship.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Again, HAHAHA

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY OFF.

I'm a SAINTS FAN FIRST AND FOREMOST. College football is just the farm league for the league that I love. Some of you obviously don't have the Saints first on your list of favorite teams. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to poke holes in me because of where I live when you are obviously letting your love for LSU affect the way you see things for the Saints.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

As with any draft, there is always the possibility of a bad choice. However...in this year's draft, there are only two guy's I would be willing to move up for: Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden. Not just b/c they are from the SEC (although I will admit that I am bias), but b/c they have excelled in the nation's toughest conference for 3 years in a row. As you stated above...nothing is a sure thing. However, Dorsey is as close to a sure thing in the draft as anything I have seen in the past 10 years. He would be worth the cost, especially when you consider that this is a position of great need for the Saints.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Keep in my mind that stats are not the only thing to look at. Im sure you have seen the videos and game film available to the public on Dorsey. It is not only the tangibles - the power, the strength, the motor, the burst, the quickness for a man his size, agility, penetration ability, stoutness at the point of attack, leverage, and range. Its also the intangibles that take away much of the bust factor - hard worker, toughness, terrific teammate, smarts, awareness, experience and instincts. Again, its not just the measurables or stats. And I can not stress enough - the thing about Dorsey that makes him so valuable is the ability to make everyone around him better. Think Kevin Williams of Minnesota or Haynesworth in Tennessee. These guys take the players around them and make them better. Dorsey is that type of player.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Yes you don't go by stats alone.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Stats might not be amazing, but I look at two things: 1) he played hurt for more than half the season after getting cheap shotted, and 2) he was consistently double and triple teamed. When he was healthy, he could fight through those double teams, but he struggled a little more after the injury. When he was healthy, he was hands down the best defensive player in the country. Nobody could stop him with just one guy. Against Florida, the one play in the entire game that they didn't double team him was on the final unsuccessful drive for Florida, and Dorsey head slapped the sh** of the lineman, knocked him out of the way, and then planted Tebow. But perhaps the one play that I remember the most that makes me certain he's the best defensive player in the draft when healthy is this:

YouTube - LSU's Glenn Dorsey = Domination

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Yeah gotta love that one.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Good points, but I have to stand on the idea that I'm not comfortable giving up Rivers (assuming he would be our guy) and our second round pick in this draft, for Dorsey. The argument that you may not get an upgrade for this year applies to every singly draft pick, including the #1 over all. You can look at examples of this everywhere and at every position on the field. The NFL level game is nothing like the college game and therefore there are no guarantees.

It's all a bunch of what-ifs, and I recognize that. Still feel like our defense needs more urgent help at CB and at LB than at DT. I think Dorsey will be great, just not sure if his skills can compensate for all our weaknesses. It might be better idea to keep our two early picks and try to fill more holes.

I like a great DT but when I think of the keys to great defenses, I think of LBs. For every "Mean Joe" Green, you have Ham and Lambert. I couldn't remember the name of the NT during the dome patrol years (had to look it up - Jim Wilks), but I can tell you the names of all four LBs.

Just my two cents.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

but its the DTs that keep the olinemen off of them linebackers allowing them to make the plays... DTs do the dirty work.. games are won and lost in the trenches

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

I agree while the LB gets all praise its the DT that makes it happen.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Fair points about the two picks. But my stance is that you have a surefire pick in Dorsey (I know some debate that, but I still hold firm). Again, Rivers is a great prospect (not as good as Willis last year), but Rivers weakness may be that he is more of a speed LB than a physical one and does not enjoy having to shed blockers to get to the ball. If we do not have anyone in the trenches that can free up Vilma and assuming Rivers, then you are in effect neutralizing those guys strengths and ability to get to the ball. I just do not believe that any of the DTs after Dorsey and Ellis can make that sort of an impact. You could argue that Rivers gives us an additional pass rush in a variety of blitz packages, but getting McCray allows us to potentially put together a pass rush line including McCray and Smith on the side and Grant and Dorsey on the inside. That would be a huge blessing for our secondary and you would still be able to get a speed LB in round 3 if perhaps Tavares Gooden falls, Highsmith (he plays faster than timed and is an excellent blitzer and pass rusher), Geno Hayes (known for making plays in the backfield), or Jordan Dizon (another strong blitzer). Outside of Gooden, I dont see the chances of any of those guys taking over at LB full time, but would be a good change of pace for Shanle on blitz situations. Im high on Hayes for that role because of his explosiveness and he is a solid coverage LB.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Well...if we want him, we're going to have to move up to #2 to get him. It seems that the Falcons owner has made 3 private flights to visit Dorsey in the last 2 weeks. Damn, I would hate to have to face this guy twice a year!

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

if he ends up in ATL i think i will be sick

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

I couldn't agree more... we gots to move up to get Dorsey.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

dorsey to the saints is a dream. it just fits perfectly.. but i don't think we should give up too much to move up.. altho all the free agent signing could allow us to do so.. i just like the value in rounds 2-5..

on rivers.. he is very good, but he wasn't even the best linebacker at usc..

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Its a week draft class. The only reason to trade back is to get picks for next year. Move up and take the elite players in this draft or stock pile for next year.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Agreed...I am not a big advocate of trading down for more picks unless you are trying to rebuild a team (Atlanta, Miami). What this team needs is not 10 picks and hoping that of those 10, half make the final cut, and 2 or 3 develop into decent starters. You need to target the guys that you want and be aggressive in going after them, not trade back and wait to see what falls to you.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Agreed, At this point depth is over-rated. We need some big time starters to come in. We don't have a lot of time to develop to many picks.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

In my opinion it would be a greater benefit to not move up if the Falcons want Dorsey with all the offensive talent they could choose from if they decide to draft a big body to clog up the defensive line who cares. After all the protection our line gave Brees last year and after reading our talent scouts say we will be better this year without our starting center I dont expect the Falcons will give us much to worry about.
If the Falcons want to pass on a franchise QB or skip on the game-changing talent of Mcfadden why in the heck would we want to trade up ahead of them and screw it up. Let them draft a 300 lb athelet to stuff the run as they play from behind all year. We atleast have a couple of positions that need to be upgraded the Falcons have 2 offense and defense.
Just to clarify no harm in suggesting we should trade up to get Dorsey because he is great and he played at LSU but lets not defend it by hoping to beat the Falcons to him. If I knew for sure the Falcons wanted him I would say no way to trading up let them get a new DT we can move the ball on anyone.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

The saints need to draft the highest player available at 10 and not risk losing their second round pick which may be the player we are looking for.....and/or next years first round pick which will almost certainly be more valuable than ne player in this year's draft!

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Are we talking about the same Dorsey??? Glen Dorsey out of LSU right???
Well the thing you fail to realize or mention is that Dorsey isn't the run stuffer that you claim. Dorsey is the game changer... Dorsey is the Pass Rusher... Dorsey is the disrupter... You take your eye off of him or don't game plan this guy you will lose. You don't see it a lot in football where a DT who can single handedly win games... thats never been said about a DT. There is no illusion that if he came out last year he would be a top 4 pick and none this year that we won't end up being a top 4 pick this year.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Draft a player with the second pick who will need time to develop into an average player or back up???

or Dorsey a dominate player who will start day one... hmmm decisions, decisions, DORSEY!

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Dorseys talent isnt in question....moving up to 2 to get him would cost the saints too much....what we would give up to get him isnt worth it....if he happens to fall it would be well worth it to trade to 7 or 8....but even ellis would be a great pickup at 10.....after watching some clips of him in the national championship game....i just found that a bigger line like OSU or lines in the NFL would be able to block him much easier....even the double teams only consisted of a man-up and another hand from the next lineman....he has great quickness and great hand movements but to sacrifice next years 1st rounder isnt going to be worth it

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Yes it was... read the other posts.

Why does people thing it will cost us next years pick... read the article. Its only going to cost us this years 2nd rounder. Maybe sweaten the deal with 6 or 7 but the discussion was only for the second rounder!!!
That is a bargin!

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

it won't cost us a 1st rounder next year, and TBH, if they asked for our 10th and our 1st next year, I'd STILL do the trade simply because I expect us to atleast win the division and get to the playoffs. if we had a 10th and a 26th overall pick this year, would you trade them both for the #2 overall? I know I would. this is basically the same thing.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

If you have a chance to get a special player like Dorsey I agree, you take it. The costs are little and worth it. It will shore up our aging DT's for awhile.

Also some people put a lot into drafts but I am begining to think this whole draft thing is over rated. There is always FA now a days to make up for not having enough draft picks. I think if you have a sure thing. GO for it.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Let's try to keep a little perspective. Writing off a second round pick as an automatic "average player or backup" is ridiculous. I could spend the time giving examples of guys who went in the second round who were hall of famers. I could also show a bunch of guys who went in much later rounds and who are best-of-the-best at their position and likely hall-of-famers.

There's certainly some risk in moving up, but I can understand the thinking behind it. There are also some good arguments to stand where we are in the draft. Neither idea is one I would consider foolish, when based upon reasoned points.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

I am also fine making the move or staying put and making the right picks. I hope you are not implying that a 2nd rick pick is a sure thing because for every all-pro, hall of famer, or starter picked that you can name, you can likely name 3 or 4 complete busts or average backup players. I dont think the basis for moving up should be that you will not get any quality in the second round because that is not true. But to have an impact player like Dorsey with the potential to be one of the best IMO is worth losing that 2nd round pick.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

We should avoid the mistakes of the Chiefs and Raiders where you draft based upon a divisional rival rather than what gets your team to the Big Dance...I like Dorsey, but didn't the trade for Ricky Williams teach mgt and fans a lesson about giving up value picks in R's2-5?!?

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Sure did, but we are not talking about drafting based on a division rival - we are drafting for need and for arguably the best player in the draft. And we are not talking about trading our entire draft for the move. We are giving up 1 pick.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

This is a week draft class... making picks is a gamble. Now I am ok with staying put and getting Rivers and I don't care who else after that because they aren't a whole lot out there that I like. To much gambling on those picks. I'd give up a 2nd to take my chances with Dorsey. Not only that but take into account that we have some CB's with rings already and the key ingredient we are missning from our CB's getting another ring??? PASS RUSH! Get Dorsey.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

2. St. Louis Rams, Glenn Dorsey, defensive tackle, LSU

If Jake Long gets selected with the first pick, the Rams will focus their efforts on rebuilding their defensive line. While Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett would love to have Dorsey added to his defensive scheme, don’t be surprised to see the Rams get a host of calls about trading down, and in particular from the New Orleans Saints.

The Saints have Dorsey on top of their draft board, and with a huge hole for them at defensive tackle, the LSU All-American is their target guy to trade up for.





10. New Orleans Saints, Keith Rivers, outside linebacker, USC

I am convinced the Saints will move up in the first-round to land either Dorsey or Ellis to solidify their defensive tackle spot, while Rivers would be a good fit player for either New England or St. Louis in a trade down.





Mike D's mock draft of the first round | HoumaToday.com | The Courier | Houma, LA

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

Dolphins and Long closer and closer to making deal... Sounds like the Saints - Rams talk to really hear up to make a trade... here comes Dorsey in black and gold!!!

ProFootballTalk.com - FINS, JAKE LONG NEARING A DEAL?

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

I'm not going to say that it isn't going to happen, but geez, man, you're hopes are sky high on this. You're setting yourself up for being not so 'euphoric' on Saturday afternoon.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

don't get me wrong staying put at 10 is ok with me but don't see it doing much good for us. I strongly feel that getting youung blood in the front 7 who are explosive and can create pressure on the QB is the problem. We have to address it with the best players we can get and if it takes moving up to 2 and snagging Dorsey then so be it. We have had the same problem for years and its so easy for people to point the fingers at the CB's and all but the big picture is we give opposing QB's way to much time in the pocket. DT's are aging and slowing down big time. GET A BEAST!

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

An impact DT would be great; but it's more prudent to stay and and keep the early Round 2 pick...

This draft is not as bad as some are saying; the confusion is an argument could be made for several players to be No. 1 coupled with the fact that Parcells has that No. 1 pick...

There are plenty of great players to be had in the midround picks; it's Not your No. 1 pick that gets you to the Big Game, it's those R2-R4 guys...

Just look at the Giants draft last year; they added guys to all parts of their team form all rounds in the draft...

More is better; Saints Scouting just has to step up and add guys they can contribute immedialtely and not be like the Saints of the past who develop players who go on to other teams...

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

If you can get lucky like the Giants and hit on each draft pick you make, then, absolutely more is better. Typically, you hit on some players and miss on others in the draft so its not about quantity as much as quality. If you have a player as a sure prospect or a safe pick, then thats the guy you take. You do not stockpile picks and bring in 10 guys and hope that a handful of them make the roster and make some sort of contribution to the team unless you are in rebuilding mode. We are not in rebuilding mode. We are on the cusp and need to make the plays for the IMPACT players that can put us over the top. Drafting for quantity and being patient with all of the prospects we get is not at all what the Saints want or need. They need players who can contribute immediately even if in some cases their ceiling is limited.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

No way Jim Haslett agrees to help the Saints get a player. Moving to number 2 is a pipe dream, delusion, fantasy never happen...

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

I would say you're right if it was Hasletts call but its not.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!!
 

More is not better. More picks don't equate into a championship team. Winning makes you a championship team. In order to do that you get impact players who can impact games. We have enough of average, or the R2-R4 players on this team, its time we find some players to make an impact. You don't settle for a bunch of average players... you need some but you need those winner/impact guys along with them. We are lacking in the impact department on D.

R2-R4 will get you 8-8 or 7-9.