Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

yes they did, but i guarentee if you take moss off that team, welker doesnt have the year he had... moss was doubled and tripled all year long opening holes all over for the other WRs

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

pak the difference between dorsey, ellis and the rest is huge based on their college careers and where they play. You can not determine what they will do at the next level based on that alone. It may be the best information you have to go on but do not state it as if it is fact already. It isn't.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I don't think the Saints would be selling the farm by giving a 1st, 2nd, & a possible pick next year to get Dorsey....do you? If the price is to steep, they have already said they will stay at #10. They will not be letting Mike Ditka negotiate the trade. If the price is right, they will move up. To me....this is the best scenario for the organization. Dorsey may just be the piece of the puzzle that this team has been in search of for so long. Think of it....our LB group is improved, our offense is stellar, our CB's will benefit from the D-line's penetration, & the D-line will be very solid if not stellar.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

That is a fair point to pak. I find it difficult to digest as the same did not occur in Oakland. I think the difference would be the supporting cast. You are right though there are players that shine because of someone else demanding so much attention. Like clyde simmons success opposite reggie white.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

yes i think our first and second this year coupled with what would probably be a first next year, yes = to much.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

every level of our Defense has been improved except for safety and and DT.. with no safetys worth the 10th pick.. DT is the obvious choice and we have the chance to acquire the best DT prospect to come out in years.. he would immediatly start.. dorsey and ellis are both better right now then Bryan Young, and they would both be just beginning their careers!!

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I don't think we would have to give up next year's 1st. Next year's second ought to do it.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

im not sure we can offer the 2nd as its part of the vilma deal..

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I think you have no argument that the Pats reach the Super Bowl without Randy Moss. He was the acquisition that brought them there last season. Maybe Bob Sanders means more, maybe not, its a moot point. They do not make the Super Bowl in 06 without a Bob Sanders that made everyone on the defense better. Can you peg a Bob Sanders impact S in this draft? No. Can you peg two of the best DTs to come out in years? Yes. Think of some of the best defenses in the league over the course of the past few years and think where the play starts. Minnesota - KEvin Williams. Tennessee - Albert Haynesworth. JAcksonville - John Henderson. Chicago - Tommie Harris. None of those defenses are shadows of themselves without those DTs as shown when those players have missed time. Why do you think NFL GMs are always putting a premium on players that can be impact DTs? Because they know that a stud DT can make a defense. Again, these teams have not made it to the Super Bowl because of their subpar offeneses. We have one of the most explosive offenses in the league and coupled with an impact DT that can transform a defense much like these others, that one player in effect can be the missing piece that takes a team to the Super Bowl.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

that is true pak, more then likely much better than what we have. we have needed a dt since back when sully ate his buns out of the nfl. if our d-line dominates the line it helps the rest of the d. look at the giants. d line dominating is huge in being able to win.

btw i m picking the vikes to win the north.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

That is a good point. But I would imagine you would not hear of all the rumors of the 2nd being shopped with if it could be offered. Granted they are rumors, but I dont think that you would have as many circulating from credible sources if it were not possible.

Im on the fence about the two firsts. I think we could possibly stongarm the Rams a bit being that they would like to trade out of the spot and I do not see there being many takers aside from us. If they want to trade out that badly, then we may be able to give up a little less for the spot.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

br you are beating down the wrong door when trying to tell me the importance of d-line. I have preached it for years. The sanders comment was to someone else bringing him up. I can not say the pats would not have made the sb last year without moss. I agree they would not have been 16-0 and as dominant but I am not going to say they would not have made the super bowl. If we move up to take dorsey you are looking at his biggest fan. Either way I am ok not moving up.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

i would love to move up and get dorsey.. but i would be content staying at 10 and taking rivers if we couldnt move up..

that being said.. i dont think that Rivers will be there at 10.. i think the Pats will take him and surprise everyone.. then i think the Ravens will get McKelvin next... we could be left with Olinemen...

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

that would worry me a little pak. If that is the case and rivers and company are gone, i might try to trade down

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

From Adam Schefter:

"And so the gossip keeps flying. Adam Schefter reported last night that Rams/">the Saints have inquired about what it would take to move from their spot at 10 to the Rams' at two.

Schefter believes the Saints are eyeing Glenn Dorsey or Vernon Gholston. A trade involving Dorsey would seem more likely -- they love him, and if it only takes their second-rounder or perhaps their third and right tackle Jon Stinchcomb, who Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett drafted, it'd be worth it. But Gholston makes no sense. That rumor is based on defensive end Will Smith's hold out, but the Saints would have to pay Gholston comparable money to what Smith is seeking, and those slight savings aren't worth risking a Pro Bowler for an unproven rookie.

As far as the Rams are concerned, the deal makes more sense. If they're hell-bent on getting a tackle and Jake Long is gone, the Rams could save money and get Jeff Otah, Branden Albert, or Ryan Clady (or Stinchcomb). They could also grab Leodis McKelvin or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie with rumors that Fakhir Brown will be suspended for the season, or even Devin Thomas to replenish their receiving corps."

We may not have to give up as much as we think (other than a RT with a bum knee). Hell....I think Zach Strief can come in & do just as good a job anyway.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I hear ya. And I am ok if we do not move up as well if it is going to take the 1st this year and next year. There are certainly players that we can nab at 10 and 40 that could come in and start on our defense. But as you can probably tell from my rants and occasionally brash comments, I am adamant about giving up our 2nd or 3rd and Stincomb (as gandhi posted) to get Dorsey as I think that he is truly the single player that could take over defense over the top. I think that the additions of a DRC/Mckelvin and Connor would be great improvement or a Rivers and Cason/Flowers. But I am enamored with Dorsey as being capable of taking a defense to another level and would rather have him than any of the combinations above. Also I have serious concerns about any other DTs aside from Dorsey and Ellis being able to come in and contribute. Thomas and Young arent the best but I do not see a tackle outside the first 2 that would give us a better player. If we did decide to trade down, what players would you target? Do you think if that would happen that we should take more of a BPA approach or really try to pinpoint players that fill needs?

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

i think that bpa is always a good approach. I mean we didn't really need will smith at the time we drafted him. i think you can never go wrong bringing in good players. i men if mcfadden was there at 10 i think it is a no brainer. i would not at all mind seeing us exchange with philly for lito and then pick up the kid out of tenn. Mayo. I like mckelvin a lot because he offers the ability to be explosive in the return game. i also like that safety out of miami, phillips and maybe ya hope laws is there in the third.

so if there was a trade for lito my draft would hope to be something like this
mayo, phillips, laws.

if we stay at 10 rivers or mckelvin, if mckelvin, then phillips, laws.

That is me anyway. Let me know what ya are thinking

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

i was thinking about it and if this situation came up.. i bet money that we would take derrick harvey DE UF

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

Much like when we drafted Smith with Grant locked up and Howard with 1 year left on his deal. I dont see this happening with the McCray signing.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

Even though it's Dorsey at the top of the board, Rams are divided about taking yet another DT.

Rams would prefer a speed rusher on the corner; or protection at the LT for Bulger...

Possible scenario that play's out...

Saints may offer swap of this year's #1 picks and a conditional 2009 pick that will fall between R1-3 next year based on Dorsey's "Impact"...

Further, Coach wants Shockey...badly...as well as the Fanatics left without their War Chieftan Turley the Berzerker; that's why the Saints aren't going to give up this year's #2...

This move allows the Rams to move back, get their OT need met and gain some value with a possible #1 next year...

Also the Saints, despite recent interest from the Seahawks and Falcons (latter maybe trying to drive the price up on a division foe), are probably committed to spending their R2 pick on the kid from Purdue or Shockey (via trade) or picking another safety if they move Harper and a R5 pick...

By the way McShay (Scouts, Inc) has his final Mock Draft and Xavier Abidi, LB VaTech goes to the Saints in R3 (that's wishful thinking)...

Note: had posted a response on Dorsey's Health with links to St. Louis Post/Dispatch et al and looks like it got zapped; I'll go through the History and repost...

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I still think we are 1 year ahead of the time table to move up and feel safe about players involved. But Stinch does make sense.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

Hagan...

If I follow you, you're saying that the Elite 5 or so don't make you warm and fuzzy enough to want to trade into that group?

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I'd be all for

Saints:

10th
78th
Jon Stinchcomb

Rams:

2nd

that would be just incredible imo.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I think the Rams are going DE Chris Long... we might end up making a deal with the devil (ATL).

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

I like the elite 3 in the draft. Longs and Dorsey. The D needs all the help it can get but at what price? If we are go for broke do it with Long or Dorsey. It is a heck of a gamble but if we make the move I can live with.

The rest in any other given year would probably not be mentioned in the elite group. Thats all. Heck we are all proven wrong one way or another a couple years down the road when it comes to the draft. I will give it 3 years to see how this all works out in the long run. Thats how long it will take till we really know if it was right or not.

Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2 or #3!!! update on p
 

The New Orleans Saints are trying hard to move up in Saturday's draft for a shot to draft defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey of LSU, and one of the pieces they are shopping in a trade is left tackle Jammal Brown, according to a league source.

Brown, who has 43 starts in his three seasons in the league, is considered one of the better young tackles in the game, although his play dropped off some in 2007.

Brown went to the Pro Bowl in 2006 as a second-year player and was named to the All-Pro team. The decision to include Brown in trade talks shows the seriousness of the Saints and their want for Dorsey.

To get to Dorsey, the Saints would likely have to work out a deal with the St. Louis Rams to get the second pick. The Rams also like Dorsey, so it might be tough to pry that pick away. The Saints own the 10th pick in the first round, and Dorsey would certainly be gone by then.

The Atlanta Falcons, who own the third pick, are also interested in Dorsey. They could move up to the second spot to make sure the Saints don't jump them to get Dorsey.

Brown was the 13th player taken in the 2006 NFL Draft. He started at right tackle as a rookie, so he can play both.

In 2006, Brown was charged with domestic abuse after his wife dialed 911 and told police her husband had struck here. The charges were later dropped.

New Orleans Saints, Jammal Brown, National Football League - CBSSports.com

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

Boba kinda threw his name out a month or so back. It makes sense if the saints really like the OT we have gotten in the past 2 years. Another big gamble. LOL the smoke is really thick this year. watch the saints trade him and then move back with philli for there second rounder. LOL another puff of smoke.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

they must have dorsey rated really high over everyone else on their draft board for them to dangle brown...

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

J. Brown and a mid/late round pick should be good for the #2 overall I'd think. then we can even trade back a little for Jarod Mayo.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

Are Alleman, Bushrod ready to start on the OL?

That sure seems like a lot of change on the OL?!?

Is there a Joe Jacoby Rookie FA out there for the taking?

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

Nope I think there gonna ask for Brown and the 10th pick, if it would be for a mid round pick I'd do that in a heart beat.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

nah thats ridiculous. Jamaal is worth the #2 easily when you toss in the mid round pick.

J. Brown is worth atleast 2000 points going by the draft chart imo rofl. Maybe if they were extra stingy we could do our 10th and J Brown for both of their first round picks.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

Oh yeah I absolutely agree I'm just saying the Rams are gonna try and be pigs

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

STL has 2 first round picks???

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

I think he's confused with the other missouri team.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

whoops, I meant their 1st round pick and their 2nd round pick.

I don't think it'd come to that though.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

oh man im bout to get wild with trade speculation.. just for the heck of it :D

Trade #1

Rams get J. Brown and Saints 3rd round pick

Saints Get #2 Overall and take Dorsey

Trade #2

Philly Gets #10 Overall

Saints get Lito Sheppard and #19 Overall

Trade #3

Giants get #19 Overall

Saints get Jeremy Shockey and #31 Overall

Trade #4

Saints get a 2nd round pick in 2008 and a 2009 First Round Pick

A team to be named later gets #31 overall..
trade up to take one of the QBs...



Saints end up with Dorsey, Shockey, Sheppard, and Two 2nd round picks in 2008 and an extra 1st round pick in 2009... Hows that for speculation!!?!?!?!

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

that would obviously be a dream draft -- but it could very well happen if we give up some random picks in later rounds. I don't know about getting a 2nd and 1st for the 31st though.

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

But dont we need J. Brown. Who would take his place?

Re: Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!
 

strief, bushrod, use our 10th pick on a new OT.