Offensive Line (educational)

Rugby Saint II · 12-16-2013, 02:45 PM

This makes for quite the conundrum. I wanted to draft defense again. But that is looking less and less like a priority. dlp has not impressed in a long time. Let's not forget that we have Armstead waiting in the wings.

saintsfan403 · 12-16-2013, 03:05 PM

How many snaps has Armstead taken this season? I'm just wondering if there is any film on him.
But yes, great point. We need an upgrade at center in a bad way, and because were not the Dallas cowbys, we can get one somewhere after the first round and hopefully get another piece to compliment Jordan/Gallette

TheOak · 12-16-2013, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints

Great thread, AND,

Drew is a surgeon, but he has no survival instinct. If he did he would grow legs and get the hell out of that collapsing pocket.

We do defenses a favor by allowing them to concentrate on everyone BUT Drew gaining yards by running a football.

Alaska

Yes and no... Watch old games of Drew under pressure, he stepped up into the pocket and let it collapse in the back of him, I have heard many an analyst (hate referencing analysts) comment on how good he is at stepping up into the pocket and taking the hit to stay on target.

This season more than most others we seem the pocket collapsing around the rear of the pocket but when drew steps up, instead of 3-4 feet he has only 1-2 feet and that's a lot shorter than the wingspan of an NFL player.

Look at it from another angle, have you ever seen our RBs get nailed behind the line of scrimmage as much as you have seen it this year? Same logic, the defense resets the LoS 1-2 yards in the back field instead of us resetting it 1-2 yards on their side.

Watch how strange the numbers get. (assumption being that a blitz is the most pressure)

9 INTs when not being blitzed
1 INT when being blitzed

14 sackes when Blitzed
16 sacks when not being blitzed

QBR when not blitzed 101.1
QBR when being blitzed 112.9

Players stay back to block when there is a blitz, when there isnt its the line that isn't protecting him.

Now this will blow your mind.
Drew Brees Completion % with 2.5 sec or less in the pocket - 77.5% #1 in the NFL
Drew Brees average time to Pass Attempt 2.64s 17th in the NFL
Drew Brees average time to sack 3.63s only 2 QBS have shorter times Brady and Manning

Oops sorry I lost track. I ran the numbers before but need to run them again. As i remember it drew is hit/sacked more by LB than any DEs. That points to DLP.

TheOak · 12-16-2013, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan403

How many snaps has Armstead taken this season? I'm just wondering if there is any film on him.

But yes, great point. We need an upgrade at center in a bad way, and because were not the Dallas cowbys, we can get one somewhere after the first round and hopefully get another piece to compliment Jordan/Gallette

Everything I can find says he played Special teams against NE... Nothing else.

That said, if Lolito is dressing out we wouldn't carry another lineman. Strief was out against NE wasn't he?

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I see we do not have a lot of people that have played offensive line. Here is a little educational information that should help steer you on your mock-draft scenarios.

While Left Tackle is the most important offensive lineman for protecting the QB, there is more to the game than protecting the QB.. There is running, screens, etc... Teams starting investing high dollar in LTs when QBs because expensive.

You see, having a damn good Center takes a lot off of Drew Brees. How many delay of game penalties have we seen while Drew is making the lineman calls pre-snap?

Watch the whole video.
Is left tackle still the most important O-line position? - NFL Videos

Payton Maiining's left hand was Jeff Saturday.

Read the Roles section and think about how many LBs shoot our inside gap and get to Drew. Never picked up.
Center (American and Canadian football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While LT is the most important player for protecting the QBs blind side, he gets his blocking assignment from the Center... If the Center makes the wrong call, the LT is worthless.

Yes, Charles Brown is a liability but if i am drafting on draft day and not drafting BPA, I am grabbing the best Center on the board in the first round. He will make for a better Saints o-line and allow Drew to focus where he needs to.

Where do QBs go when the pocket is collapsing around them.. They step up... Cant do that when the Center is being pushed back in your face.

I agree and this is why I stated in a post about three weeks ago, that the line began to deteriorate with loss of Goodwin to the 49ers and the failed signing of Kruetz. With Kruetz we were counting on him playing at a high level to match what we were getting in Goodwin.

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 04:23 PM

This is also why you build your football team from the inside out on both offense and defense. Center and Guards to open running lanes and set the picket, DT/NG to clog runnung lanes/occupy blockers and get push to collapse pocket.

saintsfan403 · 12-16-2013, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Everything I can find says he played Special teams against NE... Nothing else.

That said, if Lolito is dressing out we wouldn't carry another lineman. Strief was out against NE wasn't he?

Thanks for finding that...I believe Strief was out that game, I would have to check back though.
I'm wondering how the whole Armstead experiment is going. He has the athleticism to be a hulluva player....
Back to DLP, I remember during the Tampa game when Ingram got stuffed at the goal line, it was DLP getting blown up and knocked 3 yards back.

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan403

Thanks for finding that...I believe Strief was out that game, I would have to check back though.
I'm wondering how the whole Armstead experiment is going. He has the athleticism to be a hulluva player....
Back to DLP, I remember during the Tampa game when Ingram got stuffed at the goal line, it was DLP getting blown up and knocked 3 yards back.

We may have our answer soon since Coach Payton is looking at changing the LT.

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 05:42 PM

NFL Saints mulling personnel changes - ESPN
This story will shed light on my last post.

WHODATINCA · 12-16-2013, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Same logic, the defense resets the LoS 1-2 yards in the back field instead of us resetting it 1-2 yards on their side.

That exactly is what I am seeing. And while I appreciate your post very much ( and certainly learned some things ), it is hard for me to believe that the phenomenon you reference here is entirely the center's fault.

I think our entire O-line needs work. Offensively, everything really starts with the O-line. And, the way back-up and rookie QBs are playing this year -- kinda makes you wonder if O-line and skill positions' importance shouldn't be quite so over-shadowed, by the QB, from a financial perspective. Ya know what I mean?

12-16-2013, 02:45 PM	#11
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Offensive Line (educational) This makes for quite the conundrum. I wanted to draft defense again. But that is looking less and less like a priority. dlp has not impressed in a long time. Let's not forget that we have Armstead waiting in the wings. WhoDat2301 likes this.

12-16-2013, 03:05 PM	#12
saintsfan403 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: WHO DAT NATION Posts: 2,261	Re: Offensive Line (educational) How many snaps has Armstead taken this season? I'm just wondering if there is any film on him. But yes, great point. We need an upgrade at center in a bad way, and because were not the Dallas cowbys, we can get one somewhere after the first round and hopefully get another piece to compliment Jordan/Gallette WhoDat2301 likes this.

12-16-2013, 03:49 PM	#13
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints Great thread, AND, Drew is a surgeon, but he has no survival instinct. If he did he would grow legs and get the hell out of that collapsing pocket. We do defenses a favor by allowing them to concentrate on everyone BUT Drew gaining yards by running a football. Alaska Yes and no... Watch old games of Drew under pressure, he stepped up into the pocket and let it collapse in the back of him, I have heard many an analyst (hate referencing analysts) comment on how good he is at stepping up into the pocket and taking the hit to stay on target. This season more than most others we seem the pocket collapsing around the rear of the pocket but when drew steps up, instead of 3-4 feet he has only 1-2 feet and that's a lot shorter than the wingspan of an NFL player. Look at it from another angle, have you ever seen our RBs get nailed behind the line of scrimmage as much as you have seen it this year? Same logic, the defense resets the LoS 1-2 yards in the back field instead of us resetting it 1-2 yards on their side. Watch how strange the numbers get. (assumption being that a blitz is the most pressure) 9 INTs when not being blitzed 1 INT when being blitzed 14 sackes when Blitzed 16 sacks when not being blitzed QBR when not blitzed 101.1 QBR when being blitzed 112.9 Players stay back to block when there is a blitz, when there isnt its the line that isn't protecting him. Now this will blow your mind. Drew Brees Completion % with 2.5 sec or less in the pocket - 77.5% #1 in the NFL Drew Brees average time to Pass Attempt 2.64s 17th in the NFL Drew Brees average time to sack 3.63s only 2 QBS have shorter times Brady and Manning Oops sorry I lost track. I ran the numbers before but need to run them again. As i remember it drew is hit/sacked more by LB than any DEs. That points to DLP. hagan714 likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

12-16-2013, 03:56 PM	#14
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by saintsfan403 How many snaps has Armstead taken this season? I'm just wondering if there is any film on him. But yes, great point. We need an upgrade at center in a bad way, and because were not the Dallas cowbys, we can get one somewhere after the first round and hopefully get another piece to compliment Jordan/Gallette Everything I can find says he played Special teams against NE... Nothing else. That said, if Lolito is dressing out we wouldn't carry another lineman. Strief was out against NE wasn't he?
	Last edited by TheOak; 12-16-2013 at 04:00 PM..

12-16-2013, 04:16 PM	#15
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by TheOak I see we do not have a lot of people that have played offensive line. Here is a little educational information that should help steer you on your mock-draft scenarios. While Left Tackle is the most important offensive lineman for protecting the QB, there is more to the game than protecting the QB.. There is running, screens, etc... Teams starting investing high dollar in LTs when QBs because expensive. You see, having a damn good Center takes a lot off of Drew Brees. How many delay of game penalties have we seen while Drew is making the lineman calls pre-snap? Watch the whole video. Is left tackle still the most important O-line position? - NFL Videos Payton Maiining's left hand was Jeff Saturday. Read the Roles section and think about how many LBs shoot our inside gap and get to Drew. Never picked up. Center (American and Canadian football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia While LT is the most important player for protecting the QBs blind side, he gets his blocking assignment from the Center... If the Center makes the wrong call, the LT is worthless. Yes, Charles Brown is a liability but if i am drafting on draft day and not drafting BPA, I am grabbing the best Center on the board in the first round. He will make for a better Saints o-line and allow Drew to focus where he needs to. Where do QBs go when the pocket is collapsing around them.. They step up... Cant do that when the Center is being pushed back in your face. I agree and this is why I stated in a post about three weeks ago, that the line began to deteriorate with loss of Goodwin to the 49ers and the failed signing of Kruetz. With Kruetz we were counting on him playing at a high level to match what we were getting in Goodwin.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

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12-16-2013, 04:23 PM	#16
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: Offensive Line (educational) This is also why you build your football team from the inside out on both offense and defense. Center and Guards to open running lanes and set the picket, DT/NG to clog runnung lanes/occupy blockers and get push to collapse pocket.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

12-16-2013, 05:21 PM	#17
saintsfan403 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: WHO DAT NATION Posts: 2,261	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by TheOak Everything I can find says he played Special teams against NE... Nothing else. That said, if Lolito is dressing out we wouldn't carry another lineman. Strief was out against NE wasn't he? Thanks for finding that...I believe Strief was out that game, I would have to check back though. I'm wondering how the whole Armstead experiment is going. He has the athleticism to be a hulluva player.... Back to DLP, I remember during the Tampa game when Ingram got stuffed at the goal line, it was DLP getting blown up and knocked 3 yards back.

12-16-2013, 05:30 PM	#18
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by saintsfan403 Thanks for finding that...I believe Strief was out that game, I would have to check back though. I'm wondering how the whole Armstead experiment is going. He has the athleticism to be a hulluva player.... Back to DLP, I remember during the Tampa game when Ingram got stuffed at the goal line, it was DLP getting blown up and knocked 3 yards back. We may have our answer soon since Coach Payton is looking at changing the LT.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

12-16-2013, 05:42 PM	#19
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: Offensive Line (educational) NFL Saints mulling personnel changes - ESPN This story will shed light on my last post. exile likes this.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

12-16-2013, 05:55 PM	#20
WHODATINCA Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: South Bay Posts: 3,784	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by TheOak Same logic, the defense resets the LoS 1-2 yards in the back field instead of us resetting it 1-2 yards on their side. That exactly is what I am seeing. And while I appreciate your post very much ( and certainly learned some things ), it is hard for me to believe that the phenomenon you reference here is entirely the center's fault. I think our entire O-line needs work. Offensively, everything really starts with the O-line. And, the way back-up and rookie QBs are playing this year -- kinda makes you wonder if O-line and skill positions' importance shouldn't be quite so over-shadowed, by the QB, from a financial perspective. Ya know what I mean?

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