Jimmy Graham Contract

TheOak · 01-13-2014, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

That's 5mil per annum - why would he take less than market value?!?

Fine give him 6M a year.

6m/year makes him top 10 TE paid
2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Tight End

Thats is where he preformed in the Post Season, and in regular season his Ave YPC is way out side of top 10.

Total yards/year is not a function of ability, it is function of being thrown to. Throw Ben Watson the ball 86 times and with his AVE he would have 1,023 yards and be 2nd in the NFL.

He takes what he is willing to take. I do not see him as being worth over what I stated until he stops getting shut out.

8 games this entire year with less than 50 yards.
Jimmy Graham Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

Want to call him a WR... Fine. He is out side of the top 10 WRs in total yards.
NFL Stats: by Player Position

So as a TE he can not block and as a WR he is not top 10. His Drop Rate is 6.52 which puts 19 TEs above him and 22 WRs above him.

Jimmy Graham did not play Top Money in his contract year. 6m/year. period

halloween 65 · 01-13-2014, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Fine give him 6M a year.

6m/year makes him top 10 TE paid
2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Tight End

Thats is where he preformed in the Post Season, and in regular season his Ave YPC is way out side of top 10.

Total yards/year is not a function of ability, it is function of being thrown to. Throw Ben Watson the ball 86 times and with his AVE he would have 1,023 yards and be 2nd in the NFL.

He takes what he is willing to take. I do not see him as being worth over what I stated until he stops getting shut out.

8 games this entire year with less than 50 yards.
Jimmy Graham Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

Want to call him a WR... Fine. He is out side of the top 10 WRs in total yards.
NFL Stats: by Player Position

So as a TE he can not block and as a WR he is not top 10. His Drop Rate is 6.52 which puts 19 TEs above him and 22 WRs above him.

Jimmy Graham did not play Top Money in his contract year. 6m/year. period

I think that is to much, 5 mil is to much, could save a butt load of money and draft 1 if need be. I'm not saying your wrong by no means and I kind of under stand the market price(don't always agree with the market price) there are some good TE's in this years draft.

NonieT · 01-13-2014, 09:54 AM

Maybe he needs to spend a little time with Tony Gonzales this off season. He could teach how him to treat press man coverage and he might become a better blocker after he spends a little time with Gonzales. Gonzales has said in the past that he likes Graham so I don't see why he wouldn't help him. Jimmy could benefit from spending some time with the best TE to ever play the game.

onanygivenSu · 01-13-2014, 12:40 PM

Relative to what to pay Graham, it's better to think in terms of cap hit instead of base salary. Base salaries can be misleading.

If you look at the 2014-2016 cap hits for the Top 5 TEs in the league, which Graham is arguably one, you're looking at a cap hit of roughly $8M/year.

So in my opinion, a reasonable contract for Jimmy would be very close, or slightly higher than what Jared Cook got from St. Louis last March, which was 5 years, $35.1M total, $19M guaranteed and with a $5M signing bonus. Jared Cook and Jimmy Graham essentially play the same position except that Jimmy currently outperforms Cook.

Graham will likely command at least an $8.5M annual cap hit on the open market. The Saints could get a slight home town discount but nowhere near $2M-3M/year.

JMO

lee909 · 01-13-2014, 08:31 AM

He is going to want the same as Gronkowski got and thats 9ml a year.Its cheaper to pay him that than tag him.Its steep for a TE that cant block as Gronkowski is the better all round TE though these injuries are adding up.More and more dynamic TE are comimg out of college and if Graham doesn't play ball money wise Watson can cqrry the load while a new TE gets used to the league.

8ml or so a year would seem fair but president was set by Gronks contract as it was by Brees and Manning now every two bit QB wants that.

Colston is getting 8.3ml and if Graham will sign for a low cap number this year we can save $4.3/7.8 on the cap in years 2015/16 cutting Colston who isnt getting younger.

Mardigras9 · 01-13-2014, 09:54 AM

Graham is just an example of the "new" tight end mold. He is good, but as we have have seen, can be shut down. If his contract is going to hurt the development of the team we got to let him walk. He's not Brees (irreplaceable).

TheOak · 01-13-2014, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mardigras9

Graham is just an example of the "new" tight end mold. He is good, but as we have have seen, can be shut down. If his contract is going to hurt the development of the team we got to let him walk. He's not Brees (irreplaceable).

Sort of along the lines of the "new breed of QB". After a season Defenses figured it out.

ikecomp · 01-13-2014, 11:47 AM

I love me some graham, however this offense has never been about one weapon except brees as he's the orchestrator. The only reason graham started to emerge is because we lost the tandem threat we had when meacham and henderson started to slow down. Offer graham good tightend money but do not even get close to top WR money.

As good as graham is, I would still take megatron, brandon marshall or even dez bryant above graham. All three are physical wideouts who can not be bullied out of a game or intimidated plus they can make the same plays imho opinion as graham if brees is throwing them the ball. I would love to keep him but not at the expense of the rest of the team. He has franchise talent but he is not a franchise player. There is a difference.

dizzle88 · 01-13-2014, 12:15 PM

Jimmy needs to spend more time with jeremy shockey

Jimmy is twice the pure athlete shockey was but boy would shockey put a hurting on somebody if they got in his way

onanygivenSu · 01-13-2014, 12:50 PM

On the open market, Jimmy Graham will command Jared Cook-like money.

Last March, the Rams signed Cook to a 5-year, $35M contract with $19M guaranteed and with a signing bonus of $5M.

That equates to an annual cap hit of $7M in 2014, $8M in both 2015 and 2016, and $8.1M in 2017.

Graham and Cook essentially play the same position and Graham is currently the better player.

Expecting Graham to re-sign with the Saints at $5M to $6M is unrealistic in my opinion.

Apologize for almost duplicate posts... connection problems.

View Poll Results: What should the Saints do re: Jimmy Graham?
Negotiate, Re-sign to Contract	56	62.92%
Franchise Tag (Exclusive)	17	19.10%
Franchise Tag (Non-Exclusive)	7	7.87%
Non-Tender Free Agent (Let Him Geaux)	9	10.11%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

01-13-2014, 08:32 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by jeanpierre That's 5mil per annum - why would he take less than market value?!? Fine give him 6M a year. 6m/year makes him top 10 TE paid 2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Tight End Thats is where he preformed in the Post Season, and in regular season his Ave YPC is way out side of top 10. Total yards/year is not a function of ability, it is function of being thrown to. Throw Ben Watson the ball 86 times and with his AVE he would have 1,023 yards and be 2nd in the NFL. He takes what he is willing to take. I do not see him as being worth over what I stated until he stops getting shut out. 8 games this entire year with less than 50 yards. Jimmy Graham Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN Want to call him a WR... Fine. He is out side of the top 10 WRs in total yards. NFL Stats: by Player Position So as a TE he can not block and as a WR he is not top 10. His Drop Rate is 6.52 which puts 19 TEs above him and 22 WRs above him. Jimmy Graham did not play Top Money in his contract year. 6m/year. period blackangold, CharityMike and rezburna like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-13-2014, 09:20 AM	#2
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by TheOak Fine give him 6M a year. 6m/year makes him top 10 TE paid 2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Tight End Thats is where he preformed in the Post Season, and in regular season his Ave YPC is way out side of top 10. Total yards/year is not a function of ability, it is function of being thrown to. Throw Ben Watson the ball 86 times and with his AVE he would have 1,023 yards and be 2nd in the NFL. He takes what he is willing to take. I do not see him as being worth over what I stated until he stops getting shut out. 8 games this entire year with less than 50 yards. Jimmy Graham Game By Game Stats and Performance - New Orleans Saints - ESPN Want to call him a WR... Fine. He is out side of the top 10 WRs in total yards. NFL Stats: by Player Position So as a TE he can not block and as a WR he is not top 10. His Drop Rate is 6.52 which puts 19 TEs above him and 22 WRs above him. Jimmy Graham did not play Top Money in his contract year. 6m/year. period I think that is to much, 5 mil is to much, could save a butt load of money and draft 1 if need be. I'm not saying your wrong by no means and I kind of under stand the market price(don't always agree with the market price) there are some good TE's in this years draft.

01-13-2014, 09:54 AM	#3
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Maybe he needs to spend a little time with Tony Gonzales this off season. He could teach how him to treat press man coverage and he might become a better blocker after he spends a little time with Gonzales. Gonzales has said in the past that he likes Graham so I don't see why he wouldn't help him. Jimmy could benefit from spending some time with the best TE to ever play the game.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

01-13-2014, 12:40 PM	#4
onanygivenSu Registered Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: In the moment Posts: 44	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Relative to what to pay Graham, it's better to think in terms of cap hit instead of base salary. Base salaries can be misleading. If you look at the 2014-2016 cap hits for the Top 5 TEs in the league, which Graham is arguably one, you're looking at a cap hit of roughly $8M/year. So in my opinion, a reasonable contract for Jimmy would be very close, or slightly higher than what Jared Cook got from St. Louis last March, which was 5 years, $35.1M total, $19M guaranteed and with a $5M signing bonus. Jared Cook and Jimmy Graham essentially play the same position except that Jimmy currently outperforms Cook. Graham will likely command at least an $8.5M annual cap hit on the open market. The Saints could get a slight home town discount but nowhere near $2M-3M/year. JMO

01-13-2014, 08:31 AM	#5
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract He is going to want the same as Gronkowski got and thats 9ml a year.Its cheaper to pay him that than tag him.Its steep for a TE that cant block as Gronkowski is the better all round TE though these injuries are adding up.More and more dynamic TE are comimg out of college and if Graham doesn't play ball money wise Watson can cqrry the load while a new TE gets used to the league. 8ml or so a year would seem fair but president was set by Gronks contract as it was by Brees and Manning now every two bit QB wants that. Colston is getting 8.3ml and if Graham will sign for a low cap number this year we can save $4.3/7.8 on the cap in years 2015/16 cutting Colston who isnt getting younger.
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

01-13-2014, 09:54 AM	#6
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Graham is just an example of the "new" tight end mold. He is good, but as we have have seen, can be shut down. If his contract is going to hurt the development of the team we got to let him walk. He's not Brees (irreplaceable). TheOak, Jamessr and halloween 65 like this.

01-13-2014, 10:03 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by Mardigras9 Graham is just an example of the "new" tight end mold. He is good, but as we have have seen, can be shut down. If his contract is going to hurt the development of the team we got to let him walk. He's not Brees (irreplaceable). Sort of along the lines of the "new breed of QB". After a season Defenses figured it out. halloween 65 likes this.

01-13-2014, 11:47 AM	#8
ikecomp 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 329	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract I love me some graham, however this offense has never been about one weapon except brees as he's the orchestrator. The only reason graham started to emerge is because we lost the tandem threat we had when meacham and henderson started to slow down. Offer graham good tightend money but do not even get close to top WR money. As good as graham is, I would still take megatron, brandon marshall or even dez bryant above graham. All three are physical wideouts who can not be bullied out of a game or intimidated plus they can make the same plays imho opinion as graham if brees is throwing them the ball. I would love to keep him but not at the expense of the rest of the team. He has franchise talent but he is not a franchise player. There is a difference.
ikecomp 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 329

01-13-2014, 12:15 PM	#9
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Jimmy needs to spend more time with jeremy shockey Jimmy is twice the pure athlete shockey was but boy would shockey put a hurting on somebody if they got in his way halloween 65 likes this.

01-13-2014, 12:50 PM	#10
onanygivenSu Registered Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: In the moment Posts: 44	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract On the open market, Jimmy Graham will command Jared Cook-like money. Last March, the Rams signed Cook to a 5-year, $35M contract with $19M guaranteed and with a signing bonus of $5M. That equates to an annual cap hit of $7M in 2014, $8M in both 2015 and 2016, and $8.1M in 2017. Graham and Cook essentially play the same position and Graham is currently the better player. Expecting Graham to re-sign with the Saints at $5M to $6M is unrealistic in my opinion. Apologize for almost duplicate posts... connection problems.
	Last edited by onanygivenSu; 01-13-2014 at 12:55 PM..

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