Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

TheOak · 03-02-2014, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

I hope Jimmy Graham stays with the Saints what ever designation he gets. It doesn't look like the Saints will be able to afford it though because of their cap situation and the money he's likely to be offered based on his production. I'm hoping that his desire to stay with Drew and the Saints out weighs his greed. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen much, so I'm not going to hold my breath.

Article 10, Section 9 says the position a player is tagged at is determined by"...the position above at which he participated in the most plays during the prior league year."

So it sounds like "Lining up" means just about everything.

Nope, that is exactly what a modern-day tight end looks like.

Cue "The Autumn Wind", and James Earl Jones goes on to explain the evolution of the game and it's players.

Then I go on to explain that I am the arbitrator and that this has nothing to do with what Jimmy Graham is but what the Modern-Day definition of a Tight End is. I will also go on about precedent and that JG set that when he allowed himself to be Drafted, Put in record books, play, draw a pay check, and go to a pro-bowl as a Tight End. In today's NFL many positions are dual roll and Jimmy is no more a wide receiver than Darren Sproles is, even though both spent more time receiving.

Did you pull that reference out of thin air?
It's Article 10, Section 2(a)(i) and it doesn't say "lined up", it says "at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year.” Things change between line-up and snap.

TheOak · 03-01-2014, 03:03 PM

BTW I have some idiotic theory that Jimmy Grahams inability to block has a great deal to do with our predictability and our run game.

xan · 03-01-2014, 03:27 PM

I am a fan of JG, but not at 10, much less 12. And you all know what I think about giving any player more than 8% of total cap space.

If you look at recent SB winning teams, their cap is not skewed toward 2-3 players. We got off the rails by giving good players #1 HOF contracts. Stop. I'd rather get back on track than keep getting blackmailed.

Never fall in love with real estate.

lee909 · 03-02-2014, 04:28 AM

It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years.
Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving.

TheOak · 03-02-2014, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by lee909

It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years.
Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving.

Let's see if I can grab some. Give me a minute

TheOak · 03-02-2014, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by lee909

It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years.
Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving.

Notice Slot Tatgets vs TE Targets for Graham, also notice at least 1/3 of the TEs line up with greater than 50% in the slot.

lee909 · 03-02-2014, 04:54 AM

Just shows the evolution of the position.It might explain Loomis confidence in the TE tag.

One third of TE lining up in slot, pro bowl at TE, drafted as a TE.

When I see a bird that*walks like a duck*and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. ”*

TheOak · 03-02-2014, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by lee909

Just shows the evolution of the position.It might explain Loomis confidence in the TE tag.

One third of TE lining up in slot, pro bowl at TE, drafted as a TE.

When I see a bird that*walks like a duck*and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. ”*

Is my math incorrect or does he actually not take more snaps at slot than TE? He ran 538 routes only 268 in the slot. 134 targets 67 @ slot.

Utah_Saint · 03-02-2014, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Is my math incorrect or does he actually not take more snaps at slot than TE? He ran 538 routes only 268 in the slot. 134 targets 67 @ slot.

I haven't actually seen the stats. I took the break down from a Mike Triplett story.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, Graham lined up as a receiver on 67 percent of his snaps in 2013 (45 percent in the slot, 22 percent out wide, 33 percent as an in-line tight end).

GM says New Orleans Saints will tag Jimmy Graham if necessary - ESPN

I've seen that same line quoted in a couple other stories.

And this Profootballtalk article mentions stats from PFF.

Saints, Graham almost certainly headed for franchise-tag fight | ProFootballTalk

ScottF · 03-02-2014, 12:48 PM

On another note, assuming JG is considered a TE...
what was the effect of Aaron Hernandez's contract being voided? I think he was the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE- around $8m annual. Wouldn't that lower the TE number?

03-02-2014, 04:24 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,056	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? Originally Posted by Utah_Saint I hope Jimmy Graham stays with the Saints what ever designation he gets. It doesn't look like the Saints will be able to afford it though because of their cap situation and the money he's likely to be offered based on his production. I'm hoping that his desire to stay with Drew and the Saints out weighs his greed. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen much, so I'm not going to hold my breath. Article 10, Section 9 says the position a player is tagged at is determined by"...the position above at which he participated in the most plays during the prior league year." So it sounds like "Lining up" means just about everything. Nope, that is exactly what a modern-day tight end looks like. Cue "The Autumn Wind", and James Earl Jones goes on to explain the evolution of the game and it's players. Then I go on to explain that I am the arbitrator and that this has nothing to do with what Jimmy Graham is but what the Modern-Day definition of a Tight End is. I will also go on about precedent and that JG set that when he allowed himself to be Drafted, Put in record books, play, draw a pay check, and go to a pro-bowl as a Tight End. In today's NFL many positions are dual roll and Jimmy is no more a wide receiver than Darren Sproles is, even though both spent more time receiving. Did you pull that reference out of thin air? It's Article 10, Section 2(a)(i) and it doesn't say "lined up", it says "at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year.” Things change between line-up and snap.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

03-01-2014, 03:03 PM	#2
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,056	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? BTW I have some idiotic theory that Jimmy Grahams inability to block has a great deal to do with our predictability and our run game.

03-01-2014, 03:27 PM	#3
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,373 Blog Entries: 34	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? I am a fan of JG, but not at 10, much less 12. And you all know what I think about giving any player more than 8% of total cap space. If you look at recent SB winning teams, their cap is not skewed toward 2-3 players. We got off the rails by giving good players #1 HOF contracts. Stop. I'd rather get back on track than keep getting blackmailed. Never fall in love with real estate.

03-02-2014, 04:28 AM	#4
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years. Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving.

03-02-2014, 04:40 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,056	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? Originally Posted by lee909 It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years. Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving. Let's see if I can grab some. Give me a minute

03-02-2014, 04:47 AM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,056	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? Originally Posted by lee909 It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years. Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving. Notice Slot Tatgets vs TE Targets for Graham, also notice at least 1/3 of the TEs line up with greater than 50% in the slot.

03-02-2014, 04:54 AM	#7
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? Just shows the evolution of the position.It might explain Loomis confidence in the TE tag. One third of TE lining up in slot, pro bowl at TE, drafted as a TE. When I see a bird thatwalks like a duckand swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. ”*

03-02-2014, 05:18 AM	#8
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,056	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? Originally Posted by lee909 Just shows the evolution of the position.It might explain Loomis confidence in the TE tag. One third of TE lining up in slot, pro bowl at TE, drafted as a TE. When I see a bird thatwalks like a duckand swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. ”* Is my math incorrect or does he actually not take more snaps at slot than TE? He ran 538 routes only 268 in the slot. 134 targets 67 @ slot.

03-02-2014, 10:33 AM	#9
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? Originally Posted by TheOak Is my math incorrect or does he actually not take more snaps at slot than TE? He ran 538 routes only 268 in the slot. 134 targets 67 @ slot. I haven't actually seen the stats. I took the break down from a Mike Triplett story. According to ESPN Stats & Information, Graham lined up as a receiver on 67 percent of his snaps in 2013 (45 percent in the slot, 22 percent out wide, 33 percent as an in-line tight end). GM says New Orleans Saints will tag Jimmy Graham if necessary - ESPN I've seen that same line quoted in a couple other stories. And this Profootballtalk article mentions stats from PFF. Saints, Graham almost certainly headed for franchise-tag fight \| ProFootballTalk

03-02-2014, 12:48 PM	#10
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season? On another note, assuming JG is considered a TE... what was the effect of Aaron Hernandez's contract being voided? I think he was the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE- around $8m annual. Wouldn't that lower the TE number?

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