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Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by lee909 It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years. Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving. Let's see if ...

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Old 03-02-2014, 05:40 AM   #131
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years.
Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving.

Let's see if I can grab some. Give me a minute
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:47 AM   #132
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
It would be interesting to see other TE stats of lining up over the past two years.
Vernon Davis, Gronk,Hernandez, Gonzalez, Jordan Cameron, Thomas at Denver all played a major part in receiving.

Notice Slot Tatgets vs TE Targets for Graham, also notice at least 1/3 of the TEs line up with greater than 50% in the slot.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:50 AM   #133
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
Nope, that is exactly what a modern-day tight end looks like.

Cue "The Autumn Wind", and James Earl Jones goes on to explain the evolution of the game and it's players.

Then I go on to explain that I am the arbitrator and that this has nothing to do with what Jimmy Graham is but what the Modern-Day definition of a Tight End is. I will also go on about precedent and that JG set that when he allowed himself to be Drafted, Put in record books, play, draw a pay check, and go to a pro-bowl as a Tight End. In today's NFL many positions are dual roll and Jimmy is no more a wide receiver than Darren Sproles is, even though both spent more time receiving.


Did you pull that reference out of thin air?
It's Article 10, Section 2(a)(i) and it doesn't say "lined up", it says "at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year.” Things change between line-up and snap.
I've read a couple sports writers reference the "modern day tight end" designation as a possibility but it will require that the arbitrator makes a kind of new position. One in which tight end doesn't mean the player lines up tight on the end of the line. Who knows, could happen.

And no, I didn't pull it out of thin air. It's in the NFL CBA. You can read it here. Kinda dry though.

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/...-2011-2020.pdf

Article 10 section 9 is on page 49. The section I quoted is right about the middle of the page. "...above at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year"

Article 10 section 2 also says "... at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year,

Looks like it says it twice.

I don't know man, saying things change between line up and snap seems like a pretty big reach to me.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:54 AM   #134
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Just shows the evolution of the position.It might explain Loomis confidence in the TE tag.

One third of TE lining up in slot, pro bowl at TE, drafted as a TE.


When I see a bird that*walks like a duck*and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. ”*
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:18 AM   #135
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
Just shows the evolution of the position.It might explain Loomis confidence in the TE tag.

One third of TE lining up in slot, pro bowl at TE, drafted as a TE.


When I see a bird that*walks like a duck*and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. ”*

Is my math incorrect or does he actually not take more snaps at slot than TE? He ran 538 routes only 268 in the slot. 134 targets 67 @ slot.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:44 AM   #136
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
I've read a couple sports writers reference the "modern day tight end" designation as a possibility but it will require that the arbitrator makes a kind of new position. One in which tight end doesn't mean the player lines up tight on the end of the line. Who knows, could happen.

And no, I didn't pull it out of thin air. It's in the NFL CBA. You can read it here. Kinda dry though.

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/...-2011-2020.pdf

Article 10 section 9 is on page 49. The section I quoted is right about the middle of the page. "...above at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year"

Article 10 section 2 also says "... at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year,

Looks like it says it twice.

I don't know man, saying things change between line up and snap seems like a pretty big reach to me.
I could see a clearer distinction made for a few positions DE-LB, running vs receiving RB's, NT-DT. Take the gray area out of the Tag
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:12 AM   #137
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by ScottF View Post
I could see a clearer distinction made for a few positions DE-LB, running vs receiving RB's, NT-DT. Take the gray area out of the Tag
Not a bad idea. LT's, OG's, OC's, RT's, DE's, DT's DE/OLB's, MLB, OLB, FS, and SS's should all be separated.

Here's how it is now...

Quarterback - $16,912,000
Offensive Linemen (includes Offensive Tackle, Offensive Guard, Center) -$11,654,000
Wide Receiver -$12,312,000
Running Back (includes all Fullbacks and Halfbacks) - $9,540,000
Tight End - $7,035,000
Defensive End - $13,116,000
Defensive Tackle - $9,654,000
Linebacker - $11,455,000
Cornerback - $11,834,000
Safety - $8,433,000
Kicker or Punter $3,556,000
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:33 AM   #138
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Not a bad idea. LT's, OG's, OC's, RT's, DE's, DT's DE/OLB's, MLB, OLB, FS, and SS's should all be separated.



Here's how it is now...



Quarterback - $16,912,000

Offensive Linemen (includes Offensive Tackle, Offensive Guard, Center) -$11,654,000

Wide Receiver -$12,312,000

Running Back (includes all Fullbacks and Halfbacks) - $9,540,000

Tight End - $7,035,000

Defensive End - $13,116,000

Defensive Tackle - $9,654,000

Linebacker - $11,455,000

Cornerback - $11,834,000

Safety - $8,433,000

Kicker or Punter $3,556,000

Those are "Exclusive Franchise Tag" numbers. Jimmy's number has not been calculated yet as far as I can find. Non-Exclusive goes back 5 years and is lower than those.

It's very important to know that at this time Jimmy has not been hit with a position.... Only a general NEFT.

My biggest curiosity is what is the NEFT for WR? If the EFT-WR is 12.3, could the NEFT-WR be near the 9.5m mark?
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:33 AM   #139
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
Is my math incorrect or does he actually not take more snaps at slot than TE? He ran 538 routes only 268 in the slot. 134 targets 67 @ slot.
I haven't actually seen the stats. I took the break down from a Mike Triplett story.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, Graham lined up as a receiver on 67 percent of his snaps in 2013 (45 percent in the slot, 22 percent out wide, 33 percent as an in-line tight end).

GM says New Orleans Saints will tag Jimmy Graham if necessary - ESPN

I've seen that same line quoted in a couple other stories.

And this Profootballtalk article mentions stats from PFF.

Saints, Graham almost certainly headed for franchise-tag fight | ProFootballTalk
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:48 PM   #140
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Re: Jimmy Graham demanding 12 million per season?

On another note, assuming JG is considered a TE...
what was the effect of Aaron Hernandez's contract being voided? I think he was the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE- around $8m annual. Wouldn't that lower the TE number?
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