A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees

jeanpierre · 01-03-2015, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

You are directly relating Brees' contract to the decline of the offensive line. I say that is completely wrongheaded.

- Nicks - Left because Tampa gave him a contact way over market value. He's barely played since then and didn't make their offensive line any better when he did. You cannot say with any reasonable thought that the Saints made a bad decision in letting him go.

Completely Disagree.

A few points.

First, Nicks was an All-Pro Guard who had not missed a game as a Saint; so as one of the two best guards in the league he is the top of the food chain so he was going to get a max contract...

Second, Nicks was an unrestricted free agent at the same time Brees was; Brees Camp made it clear he was seeking a max contract - so something had to give

Source: Report: Carl Nicks “expected to leave” New Orleans in free agency | ProFootballTalk

Third, Loomis' failed logic then went out and signed Grubbs, who has grossely underwhelmed, at the number he sought to sign Nicks probably thinking he wouldn't affect the level of that unit and still get his numbers he wanted - fail.

Source: New Orleans Saints replace Carl Nicks with OG Ben Grubbs - ESPN

Concession: the Nicks signing was a completely bust for the Bucs as Nicks contracted a staph infection while there which the Bucs ended up agreeing to a settlement - but that's on the Bucs for not maintaining a healthy environment for the invested athletes they've got under contract.

Source: Third Tampa Bay Buccaneers player tests positive for MRSA staph infection - ESPN

So to say that Brees contract has nothing to do with the decline in the roster quality, whether maintaining an elite unit or being able to improve it is naive, even foolhardy...

Jack Vegas · 01-03-2015, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Completely Disagree.

A few points.

First, Nicks was an All-Pro Guard who had not missed a game as a Saint; so as one of the two best guards in the league he is the top of the food chain so he was going to get a max contract...

Second, Nicks was an unrestricted free agent at the same time Brees was; Brees Camp made it clear he was seeking a max contract - so something had to give

Source: Report: Carl Nicks “expected to leave” New Orleans in free agency | ProFootballTalk

Third, Loomis' failed logic then went out and signed Grubbs, who has grossely underwhelmed, at the number he sought to sign Nicks probably thinking he wouldn't affect the level of that unit and still get his numbers he wanted - fail.

Source: New Orleans Saints replace Carl Nicks with OG Ben Grubbs - ESPN

Concession: the Nicks signing was a completely bust for the Bucs as Nicks contracted a staph infection while there which the Bucs ended up agreeing to a settlement - but that's on the Bucs for not maintaining a healthy environment for the invested athletes they've got under contract.

Source: Third Tampa Bay Buccaneers player tests positive for MRSA staph infection - ESPN

So to say that Brees contract has nothing to do with the decline in the roster quality, whether maintaining an elite unit or being able to improve it is naive, even foolhardy...

You are neglecting to mention that Nicks already had the bad foot before he even left. He got the MSRA as result a foot surgery, which was needed because he had a history of chronic injury history there. That was no secret. There were also rumors that he was not the best guy in the locker room even then - not totally farfetched considering we got him in the fourth round of the draft on similar concerns.

You are also neglecting to mention that we had plenty of space to sign Nicks if we had wanted to. Loomis/Payton/whoever makes these decisions decided he wasn't worth what he was demanding. You are also neglecting to mention that Brees cap hit in 2012 was only 10.4 million, and you are also neglecting to mention that the Saints had well more than the $3 million cap space that would have been needed to re-sign Nicks instead of going out and getting Grubbs. And in that scenario, you would kiss any chance of getting Curtis Lofton goodbye. IIRC we also had to sign Colston that year and an extension for Greer.

You can call that a mistake if you want but it has nothing whatsoever to do with being handcuffed by Brees salary. Those are personnel decisions, plain and simple. Blaming Brees contract for the offensive line's decline in performance 3 years later is just flat out simplistic thinking and quite frankly, kind of retarded.

I am kind of disgusted by people calling out Brees for being selfish. He has done more for the Saints and the town than any other player and perhaps any other person in franchise history. He deserves every penny he has gotten and more. Going after him for being selfish is just childish and shows a severe lack of brainpower, for all the reasons I have pointed out in this thread and many more which I'm sure we are not privy to because we are not in the front office and locker room every day.

I need to step away from this board for a while because people are just getting absolutely ridiculous with all this crap. I'm embarrassed for some of you, I really am.

SaintsBro · 01-03-2015, 01:26 PM

One scenario I keep kicking around in my mind.... giving Brees the extension kinda means that, we will have him around for a loooong time, and the Saints will be pretty much BANKING on the hope that when the inevitable time comes for Brees to leave or hang up his pads, the Saints will pretty much have to get a Russel Wilson-esque rookie QB in there for a couple of years, to hopefully do well and win a Super Bowl for them on the cheap for $390,000 a year. Kicking the can endlessly further and further down the road, we could end up in the very last year, paying the retired Brees a kinda big chunk of dead money against the cap, only for him to retire and sit on the couch in his Wranglers while the Saints play a rookie on a cheap rookie deal -- I could kinda see that happening at the very VERY end of the line when that day comes at last. For whatever impact it has, I think an extension does sorta decrease the chance of a veteran free agent coming in to take Brees' place at the end of the line, whenever that day comes, when the can has ultimately been given that final last kick.

lee909 · 01-03-2015, 01:46 PM

No point in planning on a good QB hitting FA it just about never happens

Danno · 01-03-2015, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

No point in planning on a good QB hitting FA it just about never happens

Exactly, the only reason we ever had a shot at Drew was because the conventional wisdom was that he was damaged goods.

Maybe a quality back-up will hit FA, but not a stud starter.

halloween 65 · 01-03-2015, 06:53 PM

Before I would extend Brees I would fix the line and if that is the problem then go from there with possibly extending. At least this way you get an answer and at least have a great O-line for Brees or another qb.

44Champs · 01-03-2015, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Before I would extend Brees I would fix the line and if that is the problem then go from there with possibly extending. At least this way you get an answer and at least have a great O-line for Brees or another qb.

Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-03-2015, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question.

It's a little frustrating to continue to see comments about Brees' contract amount. Take a look here:

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Brees' contract isn't the top QB contract in any category. The guy played for the Saints for 6 years on a contract he probably outplayed in the first year and definitely after the SB year without complaint. In 2012 $100 was the going rate for top tier QBs and is actually a bargain now. Then the current contract was a 3 year cap friendly soft start.

So Brees isn't obligated to restructure. The Saints can of course cut him and free up $12 million in cap ($14 million in dead money as opposed to $26 million in cap). Note that according to the details of his contract:

Drew Brees Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

Half of the $18 million salary becomes guaranteed. Likely this is on the 3rd day of the league year which is in the first week of February. That puts another $9 million on the cap that cannot be deferred.

Everyone has an agenda when it comes to contract time. It's now time for the Saints to pay the piper. That's the price of having by any measure an elite QB in the NFL.

SFIAH

44Champs · 01-03-2015, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

It's a little frustrating to continue to see comments about Brees' contract amount. Take a look here:

Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Brees' contract isn't the top QB contract in any category. The guy played for the Saints for 6 years on a contract he probably outplayed in the first year and definitely after the SB year without complaint. In 2012 $100 was the going rate for top tier QBs and is actually a bargain now. Then the current contract was a 3 year cap friendly soft start.

So Brees isn't obligated to restructure. The Saints can of course cut him and free up $12 million in cap ($14 million in dead money as opposed to $26 million in cap). Note that according to the details of his contract:

Drew Brees Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

Half of the $18 million salary becomes guaranteed. Likely this is on the 3rd

SFIAH

Maybe so, but this still doesnt answer my question.

halloween 65 · 01-03-2015, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question.

I really figure we are going to have to do this in the draft where their rookie contracts are much cheaper. Our Tackles are good enough although Strief is getting up there in age but Armstead is good to go. We could go after 2 gaurds and go with Lelito between 2 young studs or keep Grubbs and go with a 1 stud C and 1 stud G in the draft. I love Evans but I do feel he's done. There are a few ways to build this line to be strong like we are use to seeing but it might get done in a year but with Grubbs contract being up next year I figure 2 years to be honest. It's a possibility Grubbs takes a paycut but he has played well so there is no gaurrantee he would. We do need at least 2 O-lineman drafted this year. Why the he!! Loomis and Payton have neglected drafting for the O-line I will never know. Brees contract doen't bother me as much as the Graham contract, we could be sitting good on the O-line with his money going into it and he is injury prone to boot. I think it was a terrible contract to begin with.

01-03-2015, 10:01 PM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by Jack Vegas You are directly relating Brees' contract to the decline of the offensive line. I say that is completely wrongheaded. - Nicks - Left because Tampa gave him a contact way over market value. He's barely played since then and didn't make their offensive line any better when he did. You cannot say with any reasonable thought that the Saints made a bad decision in letting him go. Completely Disagree. A few points. First, Nicks was an All-Pro Guard who had not missed a game as a Saint; so as one of the two best guards in the league he is the top of the food chain so he was going to get a max contract... Second, Nicks was an unrestricted free agent at the same time Brees was; Brees Camp made it clear he was seeking a max contract - so something had to give Source: Report: Carl Nicks “expected to leave” New Orleans in free agency \| ProFootballTalk Third, Loomis' failed logic then went out and signed Grubbs, who has grossely underwhelmed, at the number he sought to sign Nicks probably thinking he wouldn't affect the level of that unit and still get his numbers he wanted - fail. Source: New Orleans Saints replace Carl Nicks with OG Ben Grubbs - ESPN Concession: the Nicks signing was a completely bust for the Bucs as Nicks contracted a staph infection while there which the Bucs ended up agreeing to a settlement - but that's on the Bucs for not maintaining a healthy environment for the invested athletes they've got under contract. Source: Third Tampa Bay Buccaneers player tests positive for MRSA staph infection - ESPN So to say that Brees contract has nothing to do with the decline in the roster quality, whether maintaining an elite unit or being able to improve it is naive, even foolhardy...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

01-03-2015, 10:11 PM	#2
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by jeanpierre Completely Disagree. A few points. First, Nicks was an All-Pro Guard who had not missed a game as a Saint; so as one of the two best guards in the league he is the top of the food chain so he was going to get a max contract... Second, Nicks was an unrestricted free agent at the same time Brees was; Brees Camp made it clear he was seeking a max contract - so something had to give Source: Report: Carl Nicks “expected to leave” New Orleans in free agency \| ProFootballTalk Third, Loomis' failed logic then went out and signed Grubbs, who has grossely underwhelmed, at the number he sought to sign Nicks probably thinking he wouldn't affect the level of that unit and still get his numbers he wanted - fail. Source: New Orleans Saints replace Carl Nicks with OG Ben Grubbs - ESPN Concession: the Nicks signing was a completely bust for the Bucs as Nicks contracted a staph infection while there which the Bucs ended up agreeing to a settlement - but that's on the Bucs for not maintaining a healthy environment for the invested athletes they've got under contract. Source: Third Tampa Bay Buccaneers player tests positive for MRSA staph infection - ESPN So to say that Brees contract has nothing to do with the decline in the roster quality, whether maintaining an elite unit or being able to improve it is naive, even foolhardy... You are neglecting to mention that Nicks already had the bad foot before he even left. He got the MSRA as result a foot surgery, which was needed because he had a history of chronic injury history there. That was no secret. There were also rumors that he was not the best guy in the locker room even then - not totally farfetched considering we got him in the fourth round of the draft on similar concerns. You are also neglecting to mention that we had plenty of space to sign Nicks if we had wanted to. Loomis/Payton/whoever makes these decisions decided he wasn't worth what he was demanding. You are also neglecting to mention that Brees cap hit in 2012 was only 10.4 million, and you are also neglecting to mention that the Saints had well more than the $3 million cap space that would have been needed to re-sign Nicks instead of going out and getting Grubbs. And in that scenario, you would kiss any chance of getting Curtis Lofton goodbye. IIRC we also had to sign Colston that year and an extension for Greer. You can call that a mistake if you want but it has nothing whatsoever to do with being handcuffed by Brees salary. Those are personnel decisions, plain and simple. Blaming Brees contract for the offensive line's decline in performance 3 years later is just flat out simplistic thinking and quite frankly, kind of retarded. I am kind of disgusted by people calling out Brees for being selfish. He has done more for the Saints and the town than any other player and perhaps any other person in franchise history. He deserves every penny he has gotten and more. Going after him for being selfish is just childish and shows a severe lack of brainpower, for all the reasons I have pointed out in this thread and many more which I'm sure we are not privy to because we are not in the front office and locker room every day. I need to step away from this board for a while because people are just getting absolutely ridiculous with all this crap. I'm embarrassed for some of you, I really am. brees84 likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

01-03-2015, 01:26 PM	#3
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees One scenario I keep kicking around in my mind.... giving Brees the extension kinda means that, we will have him around for a loooong time, and the Saints will be pretty much BANKING on the hope that when the inevitable time comes for Brees to leave or hang up his pads, the Saints will pretty much have to get a Russel Wilson-esque rookie QB in there for a couple of years, to hopefully do well and win a Super Bowl for them on the cheap for $390,000 a year. Kicking the can endlessly further and further down the road, we could end up in the very last year, paying the retired Brees a kinda big chunk of dead money against the cap, only for him to retire and sit on the couch in his Wranglers while the Saints play a rookie on a cheap rookie deal -- I could kinda see that happening at the very VERY end of the line when that day comes at last. For whatever impact it has, I think an extension does sorta decrease the chance of a veteran free agent coming in to take Brees' place at the end of the line, whenever that day comes, when the can has ultimately been given that final last kick.

01-03-2015, 01:46 PM	#4
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees No point in planning on a good QB hitting FA it just about never happens Danno likes this.

01-03-2015, 03:06 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,756	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by lee909 No point in planning on a good QB hitting FA it just about never happens Exactly, the only reason we ever had a shot at Drew was because the conventional wisdom was that he was damaged goods. Maybe a quality back-up will hit FA, but not a stud starter.

01-03-2015, 06:53 PM	#6
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Before I would extend Brees I would fix the line and if that is the problem then go from there with possibly extending. At least this way you get an answer and at least have a great O-line for Brees or another qb.

01-03-2015, 06:55 PM	#7
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by halloween 65 Before I would extend Brees I would fix the line and if that is the problem then go from there with possibly extending. At least this way you get an answer and at least have a great O-line for Brees or another qb. Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question. jeanpierre and halloween 65 like this.
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

01-03-2015, 07:53 PM	#8
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by 44Champs Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question. It's a little frustrating to continue to see comments about Brees' contract amount. Take a look here: Quarterback Contracts and Salaries \| Over The Cap Brees' contract isn't the top QB contract in any category. The guy played for the Saints for 6 years on a contract he probably outplayed in the first year and definitely after the SB year without complaint. In 2012 $100 was the going rate for top tier QBs and is actually a bargain now. Then the current contract was a 3 year cap friendly soft start. So Brees isn't obligated to restructure. The Saints can of course cut him and free up $12 million in cap ($14 million in dead money as opposed to $26 million in cap). Note that according to the details of his contract: Drew Brees Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns \| Spotrac Half of the $18 million salary becomes guaranteed. Likely this is on the 3rd day of the league year which is in the first week of February. That puts another $9 million on the cap that cannot be deferred. Everyone has an agenda when it comes to contract time. It's now time for the Saints to pay the piper. That's the price of having by any measure an elite QB in the NFL. SFIAH captainshawn likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-03-2015, 09:08 PM	#9
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL It's a little frustrating to continue to see comments about Brees' contract amount. Take a look here: Quarterback Contracts and Salaries \| Over The Cap Brees' contract isn't the top QB contract in any category. The guy played for the Saints for 6 years on a contract he probably outplayed in the first year and definitely after the SB year without complaint. In 2012 $100 was the going rate for top tier QBs and is actually a bargain now. Then the current contract was a 3 year cap friendly soft start. So Brees isn't obligated to restructure. The Saints can of course cut him and free up $12 million in cap ($14 million in dead money as opposed to $26 million in cap). Note that according to the details of his contract: Drew Brees Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns \| Spotrac Half of the $18 million salary becomes guaranteed. Likely this is on the 3rd SFIAH Maybe so, but this still doesnt answer my question.
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

01-03-2015, 10:14 PM	#10
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: A win-win contract extension would make sense for Saints, Drew Brees Originally Posted by 44Champs Sounds good but can we do that without restructuring brees's contract? That's the $100 millon question. I really figure we are going to have to do this in the draft where their rookie contracts are much cheaper. Our Tackles are good enough although Strief is getting up there in age but Armstead is good to go. We could go after 2 gaurds and go with Lelito between 2 young studs or keep Grubbs and go with a 1 stud C and 1 stud G in the draft. I love Evans but I do feel he's done. There are a few ways to build this line to be strong like we are use to seeing but it might get done in a year but with Grubbs contract being up next year I figure 2 years to be honest. It's a possibility Grubbs takes a paycut but he has played well so there is no gaurrantee he would. We do need at least 2 O-lineman drafted this year. Why the he!! Loomis and Payton have neglected drafting for the O-line I will never know. Brees contract doen't bother me as much as the Graham contract, we could be sitting good on the O-line with his money going into it and he is injury prone to boot. I think it was a terrible contract to begin with.

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