This is why you're an absolute idiot...important has nothing to do with it. It is all about what someone is willing to pay you. Whether you like that or agree with that is utterly irrelevant. When you purchase a team you can spend your money how you choose, but since you do not own the Saints you have literally no say in how they conduct their business.

Next, people choose to spend money on the Saints. It is their choice and you or I have absolutely no ability to dictate to others how they spend their money. That is the reason that Drew can be paid this amount of money because people choose to purchase the product.

You discussing importance is asinine. People aren't paid by their importance, they're paid per their market value because the business earner determines what their value is based off of what they can do for them.

It is like you exist in some Utopian wet ****ing dream instead of reality

I feel like a broken record having to say this over and over. And before I continue, let me make sure you understand that this is not meant to be condescending towards you. You are making a point based strictly on market value, of which I fully understand how it works. I'm arguing against the opinion that he is necessarily worth, or owed market value. We disagree on that, and that's fine. But the real disconnect here, is that you are going the long way of explaining the market, when that isn't real the point here. You should be worth what your performance states you are worth in comparison to the other players' salaries. He's worth being paid as one of the best, but he's not THE best. And without knowing for sure, I feel pretty confident that's what his agent is trying to get him paid like. That's the agent's job.

He might be out performing 25 year old's now but for how long? And I think a lot of fans are over estimating his performance. He throws a ton of passes, and has been quite turnover prone in recent years. Points per game are well down. Not all of that is his fault as he has taken a beating. He's still a top QB, but is he top 5 in terms of efficiency? I'm, not so sure, and it's the beating he keeps taking that makes me worry about his future. The line needed to be addressed. It was not. That needs to be addressed, in my opinion, before dealing out another mega contract.

Again, in terms in terms of market value, I don't think any team should be held hostage by whatever the going rate is. It should be based on performance vs. peers. Instead it has become a quagmire of average QB's making tons of money just because they wanted a shiner toy than the other guy got. It's ridiculous. And I blame the irresponsibility of the GM's who have helped create this nightmare. Drew deserves to be paid exactly what his performance suggests. When they gave him that last contract, he was the highest paid player. He's been up and down over the duration of that deal. So did he earn it? Not really, but he did GET that money. We all know with the way the market plays, that he will probably become the highest paid player in the league again, until someone passes him up 5 minutes later. Is he worth highest paid player when he hasn't been the best QB in the league? In reality, no. But will the Saints pay up anyway? We'll see.

Or maybe, just maybe, they can settle somewhere in the middle. I have no idea. I'm just tired of hearing things like "we were nothing before he got here, so he deserves whatever he wants". People find this mean spirited when I say this, perhaps, but it's just life. You don't pay a guy whatever he wants just because of what he's meant. You have to pay him based on what you think he can do going forward. I hope he can stay at this level for another 4 or 5 years. Or even more. But I'm reacting to all the panicking about Drew by fans who seem to think that there can never be life beyond him, and that the Saints should just cave in.

I know our other QB's aren't real good. But maybe that's an indictment on this team's ability to prepare for the future. Somehow the Patriots won 11 games with Matt freaking Cassel. Matt Flynn one threw 6 touchdowns in place of Aaron Rodgers. Good teams can't make excuses, and they can't afford to get desperate. They should be prepared.

I would rather not see it come to the point of Drew leaving. I think that's pretty obvious that we don't want that. But if this coaching staff and front office can't properly prepare for life after Drew then maybe we should be discussing THIER worth. Tom Brady sure wasn't a great college QB, but they developed him, and as I mentioned before, they won even without him. I look at the Ravens and see that they won two super bowls with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco. I think back to last year when Peyton Manning resembled Danny Wuerfful, and his team still won the Superbowl. There are other ways of winning. Allocate money wherever you have to in order to be successful, and more importantly, have the ability to develop players within your system.

Throwing for 48,000 yards doesn't mean what it used to. Again, he's still very good, but when you throw as much as the Saints do, you will have yards. They finished middle of the pack in points per game. And as long as we're paying Drew the kind of money people say he's worth, then that's not going to cut it. He needs some help. I have high hopes for the young guys on defense, but I can't say the same for the people who are in charge of keeping him conscious, up front.

The problem is that there's no time to do that now. The Saints are not going to be able to compete with "we need a QB stat!" teams in the open market. And honestly the Saints have made some attempts at addressing the line issues including trading for Unger and drafting Peat.

As for efficiency, Football Outsiders has a chart of QB metrics for last year:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015

Brees was ranked 3rd in total QBR and 6th and 7th respectively in DVOR and DVOA.


That argument certainly would hold water for other QBs. But Brees run for the last 10 years is unprecedented. He isn't average by any stretch of the imagination. And on QB performance, he should be at the very top of the QB pay list.

Now the Saints have been up and down over the duration of that deal. But Brees has not.
He's averaging 5000 yards passing, 36.8 TDs, and a passer rating of 99.8 from 2012 to 2015 over the current length of the contract. So other than the 19 INTs in 2012 where exactly are the "ups and downs" you refer to?


But it's clear that they are not. And even if they were prepared, as I stated before this run is unprecedented.

I found an article that mirrors our discussion and refers to Brees explicitly. Describes it as a dilemma.

https://theringer.com/nfl-new-era-ol...ed4#.w7y03lehd

The article points out this is really new territory in the NFL. There just hasn't been an elite healthy 38 year old QB near the top of the league in the free agent market before.

BTW I don't think that Brees is asking for everything in the world. But it makes no sense for him to sign a below market contract either.

I get that you don't like the market. But that dislike doesn't change it. If Brees keeps up close to the same production that he's had the last 10 years, and the Saints make the decision not to sign him, then many teams next year will see Brees for his production: A HOF caliber 38 year old QB.

SFIAH

The difference in all of your examples is that each and every one of those teams carried a top 5 defense. The Saints defense in the last two years has been so bad that literally rank 35 out of 32 teams in many categories. Historically bad. 3-13 or 2-14 bad. Yet the Saints went 7-9 and amazingly actually had a chance to make the playoffs in 2014.

And I think you are still missing a critical point... moving on..



I call BS on your tons of yards comments. Brees has been a master of being efficient completing the ball and having a high yards per attempt. There is a reason that Brees has 4 of the 8 5000 yard seasons and why no other QB has more than 1. Even in today's NFL if 5000 yards was simple then a ton of QBs would attain it.

Back to the critical point, which is Brees is still playing at an elite level. So preparing for life after Brees really isn't the crucial item. Preparing to support Brees in another SuperBowl run soon certainly should be.

SFIAH

You know what? 'guido and I argue a lot, but I have to say after reading this comment that you are the one I have the least amount of respect for on this board. Calling me an idiot is classless and childish. But I'm a big boy, I can handle your name calling.

The bigger reason is that you are a complete waffler. One day you're on one side of this subject and the next day you do a complete 180. When the season starts and Drew has a bad game, you'll say that you love Drew but he might be nearing the end. So I'm not sure what makes you think you are qualified to even make a judgement against me.

And since you want to resort to nastiness, I won't stoop to your level, but I will point something out. You have shown zero ability to understand anything I have said. You're beating a dead horse, and just randomly telling anyone you disagree with that they have no clue, or in this case calling me an idiot. You don't understand any part of what I'm trying to say. All you seem to get out of it is that I'm a massive Brees hater (which is ridiculous) and therefore everything I say is just stupid, and you don't read anything else. Sound about right?

So let me make it clear, one more time, since you keep ignoring it. I'm not talking about the business aspect of what a player "deserves" or is "worth". I wouldn't pay Drew more than 25 million if it were up to me, which of course it isn't. But some have suggested that he deserves whatever he wants because of what he has meant, and blah blah. That makes me nauseated, considering what he's already made. That's why I pointed out that nothing these athletes do is so important that we should feel indebted to them and just pay whatever. I can think of people who deserve much more and don't get it. SOOOO, with that in mind I don't get caught up in what Drew has done. I appreciate what he has done. But I think if you are the Saints it might not be wise to go higher than 25 million, or to give him many years.

And here's the thing... They might not. We just don't know what kind of money is being discussed. It's purely hypothetical. All of our discussion is hypothetical. Does that make sense?

By the way, I'm not "dictating" what the Saints should spend. I'm giving my opinion. For all you know, the Saints might have the same numbers in their collective heads that I have, or close to it. Common sense tells you there is only so much you can pay any one player. Either they don't agree with his asking price, or perhaps waiting to see how he performs this year (letting him hit the open market could allow a very QB hungry team to offer Brees an astronomical number). Either way, that tells you the Saints obviously have some hang up, which makes any assumption that the Saints will automatically pay him market value a bit premature.

I live in no alternate reality or "wet dream". It was a simple side bar comment that you decided to blow up into a toxic nuclear catastrophe. Freaking chill out.

I am a consistent supporter of Brees, I don't waffle. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about or you're making it up. He hasn't slowed down a bit. Matter of fact he had more than 4800 yards last year and he missed a game. He had a staggering 68% completion rate and threw 32 td's to 11 int's. I have never once said you like or dislike Brees because I could care less. This was about what he deserves to be paid per the market.

You're certainly jealous of what athletes make and that is kind of sad. 'oh they don't deserve it wah wah." "I would do their job any day of the week, all they do is play a game, wah wah".
Yeah you can't do their job and that is why you don't earn what they do, but cry a little more about how unfair it is, and your job is more important. Boo Hoo.

Once you get that then it's easy to see that the time for evaluation is over for the Saints. They have to fish or cut bait with the information they currently have because if a deal doesn't get done in the next month, then he will be a free agent next offseason.

It is the same predicament that each and every team with a high quality QB goes through. It gets even more difficult with the heir apparent has shown they are ready. There was drama with Young and Montana. There was drama with Farve and Rodgers. I predict there will be drama in the near future with Brady and Grappalo.

But it seems clear there is no Rodgers waiting in the wings on the Saints roster. Unlike Denver, it's not clear that the Saints have the defense to start from scratch at the QB position and still remain competitive in the near future.

And the simple fact is there is no real evidence of how Brees may perform 3 years from now.

Let's try a different tack here. Everyone has outlined their fears and issues. Explain what outcomes you would like to see given the circumstances. I do ask to keep everything within the realm of NFL reality. That means no Brees accepting a 2 year $40 million contracts offered at the end of the 2016 season. By any objective measure it is completely nonsensical.

Do we get someone younger and pay them the money for extended years? If so, who? Do we draft a new QB? If so who and when? Do we pay Brees? If so, how much and how long.

I agree it's a predicament. My estimation is simple. I presume the Saints want to make another championship run in the next 3 years. If that's the case it can likely only be done with Brees on board. So we pay him the smallest market contract that he'll accept. Start at 3 years/$75 million all guaranteed and work your way up from there.

That's my opinion. What's yours?

SFIAH

Dude go crawl back into what ever closet you came out of today. If you can't think of a single constructive and half adult thing to say, then you are wasting everyone's time.

I didn't say anything I do is more or less important. I said there are more important things than what athletes do. That's a fact. Without taking into considering anything to do with an inflated market, which has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about, you cannot tell me that football players are worth what they make. I don't care if it's fair or unfair. I have no jealousy towards them. I watch and pull for these guys every freaking year. I know they will always make more than everyone else, and that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when people start acting like taking a little less is going to kill the guy. I'm not even saying he should take less than market value. I don't want to see it go way over.

But let's say he did take less. Is he going to be hurting from that? I always hear the argument "you can't compare what an athlete does, or makes, with regular jobs". Well, that goes both ways. An athlete taking a little less won't hurt him like it would an average person. You can't afford to take less when you aren't making that much to begin with. And you aren't working for the sake of your co-workers. They aren't your teammates. You're there to do your job and there is no trophy at the end.

If an athlete wants to win bad enough he can afford to take less, and it has happened before. But I won't sit here and expect that. They are fortunate enough to be in a position of power and leverage. I don't think it's evil. Though there are certainly some greedy people out there, being rich doesn't make you automatically greedy.

Just don't tell me tossing a football around is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. "they're worth whatever someone wants to pay him"... blah blah blah. Let me break this down for you: If you needed a new car to get around and work but you decided to buy a house instead, you would consider the house worth whatever you paid for it, because it seemed like the thing to do. But then you realize that you are having a hard time paying the bills and you still don't have a car to get around. You might wish you had gotten a car and an apartment, saved some money, then bought the house. But it's too late.

You thought the house was worth it, but that doesn't mean it actually was. It turns out that in reality, you just made a dumb decision.

Now I'm not saying extending Drew would be dumb. Not at all. As long as the price is reasonable. Maybe it will be. I guess we'll all find out. I'm not worried about it. I know that whatever happens will happen, and there's nothing any of us can do about it. Maybe we'll go 7-9 again and we can all talk about how great our offense is.

Because when you're getting old and getting beat up (we already know he can't throw as far as he used to, and there is no way in predicting how quickly his arm strength may continue to diminish) it's difficult to project forward like you can with a younger player. Did you see Peyton Manning last year? He went from breaking the single season passing yards and TD's record one year, to being maybe half that guy the next year, to being one of the worst QB's in the league last year. That big contract he signed seemed all fine and dandy two years ago. And then, suddenly, it wasn't anymore.

I'll wait for your sarcastic attempt to dance around that one.